74 Comments:

1. RWB

   Thank God for Blue Monsters

   
   29 Aug '06, 5:51 pm

   If those are the prices, I think I can hold off on Vista for quite some time.
2. muddocktor

   Wandering about

   
   29 Aug '06, 6:09 pm

   Quoting RWB

   If those are the prices, I think I can hold off on Vista for quite some time.

   Like forever, I hope.
3. airbornflght

   McLovin

   
   29 Aug '06, 7:08 pm

   Why did windows XPs prices get upgraded? I wont be buying this OS. (and MS wonders why their stuff is pirated) if could be to the fact that you have to whip out a handful of c notes to pay for it.

   Edit:
   http://www.amazon.com/gp/search/102-...indows%20Vista
   it looks like Jan 30th is the date.
4. profdlp

   Off To The Gym

   
   29 Aug '06, 7:26 pm

   Prices in USD, courtesy of airbornflght's link:
5. fatcat

   sasquatch wannabe

   
   29 Aug '06, 8:52 pm

   will the ultimate vista upgrade work on windows xp corperate?
6. airbornflght

   McLovin

   
   29 Aug '06, 9:58 pm

   Quoting fatcat6

   will the ultimate vista upgrade work on windows xp corperate?

   Lets hope so, wait, nevermind. I am not buying it until M$ can pull their heads out and offer it at a reasonable price. I think $250 for the ultimate is fair, and then down from there $400...pfft. Thats only a months paycheck. Who do they think they are selling this too, Bill?
7. airbornflght

   McLovin

   
   29 Aug '06, 10:01 pm

   I guess they are leaving it up? Or does amazon not know about this yet. usually, companies tend to find out about this stuff rather quickly.
8. Daxx

   Icrontic Duke of Haxor

   
   29 Aug '06, 10:22 pm

   Run boys....run.
9. profdlp

   Off To The Gym

   
   29 Aug '06, 10:26 pm

   Quoting Daxx

   Run boys....run.

   See boys run.
10. Daxx

    Icrontic Duke of Haxor

    
    29 Aug '06, 10:28 pm

    Quoting profdlp

    See boys run.

    See boys run fast.
11. csimon

    Veteran Icrontian

    
    29 Aug '06, 11:43 pm

    How much is OEM and which one do I want?
12. airbornflght

    McLovin

    
    29 Aug '06, 11:57 pm

    I dont like having 10 different versions....for god sakes.
13. FoldingAddict

    Folder

    
    30 Aug '06, 2:28 am

    Considering the billions Microsoft has spent on Vista's development, I think it's a bargain.

    ~FA
14. RWB

    Thank God for Blue Monsters

    
    30 Aug '06, 3:23 am

    Quick question came to mind, my cousin mentioned that his Windows XP upgrade install disk only asked for his Windows 98 CD Key and installed a full version... is that how this works? If so I'll do the upgrade, but I don't wanna install XP and then install Vista upgrade, I don't see any good coming from that.
15. Thrax

    Cad

    
    30 Aug '06, 7:04 am

    It asks to see the CD. That's it.
16. Armo

    Graf Orlok has nothing on me

    
    30 Aug '06, 8:36 am

    its bloated, slow, can lock up your data forever if you dont know what your doing, has features no normal person wouldnt need, lacks features enthusiests want, put a "security blanket" of encryption and lock down for the warm and fuzzies of people who dont know what a computer is, has a play skool interface.

    if they rolled out a patch/SP that changed the NTFS partition limits, or at least allowed GPD disks, XP pro would be perfect in my opinion.
17. lemonlime

    Veteran Icrontian

    
    30 Aug '06, 1:32 pm

    Whatever happened to the '$99 Operating System' (Vista Basic) that they were promising?

    The full retail software versions cost a ridiculous amount of money. I really dislike the way the OEM licence works (especially for people like me who upgrade frequently). I was hoping that the full-retail versions of Vista would be priced significantly lower than XP.
18. jradmin

    I work for a living!!!

    
    30 Aug '06, 3:18 pm

    Wow, I guess this is how Bill funds his foundation. That $449 sure will put alot of micro-chips in the arms of hookers worldwide.
19. Daxx

    Icrontic Duke of Haxor

    
    30 Aug '06, 3:39 pm

    MS is always over charging. We discuss this at work constantly and have not been able to figure out why MS does not offer any kind of family licensing plan. A plan where home users could purchase a license at a discount that would work for 3 to 4 computers. I've got 4 running now - one for me, wife, and one each for twin 14 year old boys. I need a FREAKIN' FAMILY OS PLAN, MICROSOFT!!

    Additionally, the price gouging drives, nay, FUELS the black market. I think MS could make even MORE money if they would just be reasonable with pricing to home users, and I'm not talking about selling a whittled down version of their power software at a reduced price. Give us the full power version at fair, home user, or family plan pricing. I've never seen anything like this before! Most corps get a volume discount so they actually pay less than us poor folks trying to put our kids though college with ungodly expensive OS's on their computers. It makes me sick.

    Bring on the black market. Down with MICROSOFT!!! Oppressor of the common man!!

    Okay, I'm done venting. Now, I gotta save up for Vista.
20. profdlp

    Off To The Gym

    
    30 Aug '06, 4:42 pm

    They will sell you additional licenses (see the pic in Post #5) for 90CDN (about $80 US). That ain't cheap, but it is about $50 off the regular price.
21. Daxx

    Icrontic Duke of Haxor

    
    30 Aug '06, 4:54 pm

    Quoting profdlp

    They will sell you additional licenses (see the pic in Post #5) for 90CDN (about $80 US). That ain't cheap, but it is about $50 off the regular price.

    $159 DVD-Upgrade, $143 for 3 additional licenses for a total of $458 for an UPGRADE - not even full version... NOT my idea of a family pack. Microshaft really knows how to stick it to ya.
22. airbornflght

    McLovin

    
    30 Aug '06, 9:55 pm

    Im sure they have worked out the economics of it, being the relation between price per copy, and copies sold. So they could probably care less if me and you buy a copy, because there are others that will, not to mention the OEMs.
23. Daxx

    Icrontic Duke of Haxor

    
    30 Aug '06, 10:01 pm

    Quoting airbornflght

    Im sure they have worked out the economics of it, being the relation between price per copy, and copies sold. So they could probably care less if me and you buy a copy, because there are others that will, not to mention the OEMs.

    WHAT?!?! Microsoft doesn't CARE if us little guys don't buy a copy? Say it isn't SO!!! I am such a fool.
24. WuGgaRoO

    Rat Catcher

    
    30 Aug '06, 11:44 pm

    peep this....
    1) you could build a rig on dell.com for about 800 or less
    2) that means thatyou pay about 500 bucks for a new comp (if you extract the cost of windows vista)
    3) MS KNOWS that vista will only work with state of the art machines
    4) To save their butts they make the price wayyy too high, so people end up buying newer machines too
    5) Windows vista can run properly due to the new machinery
    6) MS doesn't look like a team of jackbutts cuz their OS is as slow as mollassis
    4)
25. Nightwolf

    Veteran Icrontian

    
    31 Aug '06, 5:58 pm

    I'm going to linux.
26. airbornflght

    McLovin

    
    31 Aug '06, 6:35 pm

    Slackware is looking really nice.

    And yes, the new OS will demand better hardware, but is that there fault, when hasnt a new os had higher hardare requirements. That is only natural. Do people expect a new OS to run on old hardware as good as XP did? I hope not.

    I've seen XP run on a system that I didnt think it was going to, and it ran well, not fast, but well. It was a Pentium 2 with 64megs of ram. Try that with vista.
27. Thrax

    Cad

    
    31 Aug '06, 9:23 pm

    A minor increase in RAM requirements is to be expected. Quintupling the at-boot memory footprint is absurd.

    Vista is Windows XP Service Pack 3 with a bunch of useless crap and the DRM PLUS! pack.
28. RWB

    Thank God for Blue Monsters

    
    31 Aug '06, 10:10 pm

    Quoting Thrax

    A minor increase in RAM requirements is to be expected. Quintupling the at-boot memory footprint is absurd.

    Vista is Windows XP Service Pack 3 with a bunch of useless crap and the DRM PLUS! pack.

    I am glad the newer version uses half the memory the last version did. 450+\-MB vs 900MB+

    I'll be trying to move into Linux, but it ain't gonna happen. Too many programs I depend on require MS and I paid too much for them to switch to a free variant I have no time in learning.
29. primesuspect

    The Icrontic Guy

    
    1 Sep '06, 4:47 am

    Quoting Thrax

    Vista is Windows XP Service Pack 3 with a bunch of useless crap and the DRM PLUS! pack.

    Usually you present your opinion-based arguments with well-rationed logic behind them - but this is below your standards. Vista is quite a bit more than a service pack to XP. It's almost a complete re-write. Dig into it a bit more than a superficial layer, explore the aspects that affect, say, the MCSE skills; the more technical side of things, and you must agree that your assertion is quite an understatement.
30. Thrax

    Cad

    
    1 Sep '06, 7:22 am

    Rewrite or not, many of the features that made WinV a unique and new operating system have been stripped from the operating system to meet a deadline rather than developmental excellence or a uniqueness worthy of purchase. The big one, of course, is the lack of WinFS which was set to significantly accelerate file access and management in a quick, open-source language.

    Consider its new features:
    -Desktop widgets
    -IE7
    -Aero
    -WMP11
    -Windows Mail, Calendar
    -A centralized control panel
    -Prefetching often-used programs to memory
    -Updated task manager
    -Support for NVFlash drives
    -A replacement for netmeeting

    And some trusted computing nonsense, including locking down the kernel from security vendors; while an admirable goal to keep the kernel away from everyone, not letting security vendors have access to it will only leave the black hats the luxury of doing as they please... And they will. More than that, the HDCP requirement of Vista is a slap in the face to anyone buying video cards or monitors today, as is BitLocker, the valiant effort to permit people to encrypt their files.... Only if they buy the $299 or $399 editions.

    These are touted as the major features of Windows Vista, as seen on the Microsoft pages regarding their new baby. Look at each of those, and honestly tell me they couldn't be distributed in another 125-175mb service pack. All of their features, as listed there, could be provided via simple software packages, new services or new drivers. Many of the features in Windows Vista can already be done with Windows XP, for less memory than Vista demands.

    From widgets, to new mail and conferencing clients to new devices, Aero and WMP11... All of it can be done, right now, on Windows XP.

    Is Windows Vista still anything more than Service Pack 3 which took an exceptionally long time to develop at the expense of all its really innovative features? I'm not so sure.
31. RWB

    Thank God for Blue Monsters

    
    1 Sep '06, 9:32 pm

    Wow... I agree with Thrax now. Vista is purty but it does scare me.
32. muddocktor

    Wandering about

    
    1 Sep '06, 10:41 pm

    Quoting primesuspect

    Usually you present your opinion-based arguments with well-rationed logic behind them - but this is below your standards. Vista is quite a bit more than a service pack to XP. It's almost a complete re-write. Dig into it a bit more than a superficial layer, explore the aspects that affect, say, the MCSE skills; the more technical side of things, and you must agree that your assertion is quite an understatement.

    I also agree with Thrax too. Let's look at his list of Vista features:

    -Desktop widgets - Something I haven't used yet, so I'm not missing it anyways. I imagine you can find some kind of add-on for XP to do this function if you want some widgets.

    -IE7 - Future upgrade for XP anyways. I've recently looked at this abortion and didn't like it's interface layout. Micorsoft in their infinite wisdom decided to change the interface around to be different from the other browsers, to IE7's detriment IMO.

    -Aero - Haven't messed with it and don't need it anyways (bloatware)

    -WMP11 - future upgrade for XP

    -Windows Mail, Calendar - big whoop. I'm presently happy with my present mail client.

    -A centralized control panel - Another feature that I really don't need. I know where to go in my present control panel well enough, thank you.

    -Prefetching often-used programs to memory - Might be useful, but at the expense of a larger memory footprint, necessitating more ram. More ram=more money to run.

    -Updated task manager - Might be useful

    -Support for NVFlash drives - Might be useful

    -A replacement for netmeeting - Another big whoop. I imagine that 99% of home users will never need something like this anyways. Maybe large businesses could use something like this though.

    And like Thrax said about all the trusted computing nonsense, I agree also. And add in all the extra DRM baggage that Billy-Boy is throwing into Vista, and it looks much less atractive than sticking with XP to me.

    Now if only Apple would release OSX for systems other than their overpriced hardware........
33. Thrax

    Cad

    
    1 Sep '06, 10:44 pm

    [H]ard|OCP's recent review of Pre-RC1 has also concluded that it's a perfected Windows XP; tweaks, adjustments and revisions that could've been implemented on XP. Revisions that make the OS convenient, but not worthy of replacing a licensed copy of XP with.
34. primesuspect

    The Icrontic Guy

    
    2 Sep '06, 12:25 am

    I'm not talking about superficial things. I'm talking about exciting features like scripting, which can help with some of the crazy group policy things that big active directory networks need. That also brings to mind some of the new GPOs like assigning printers based on location, device lockout based on priveldges, and (the thing I am most excited about): group policy-based QOS. These things couldn't be "tacked on" to WinXP without a network stack rewrite. At that point, it's a different OS. The network stack has been completely rewritten from scratch. The other thing that I am REALLY excited about is WIM, the new imaging format.

    You're looking at it from an end-user standpoint. I'm looking at how much easier it will be to deploy and manage 20-30 systems using Vista.

    Some other features of interest to sysadmins:

    http://www.microsoft.com/technet/win...te/overvw.mspx
35. Thrax

    Cad

    
    2 Sep '06, 12:47 am

    Alternatively, however, consider the TCO of Windows Vista. It's not just an OS this time, it's the outlandish hardware requirements to support even the basic features. It's absurd.

    The administrative functions are pretty nice, I agree, but at what cost? I feel as though it's very, very high.
36. primesuspect

    The Icrontic Guy

    
    2 Sep '06, 1:34 am

    I also disagree. I'd say 80% of my customer's computers are ready to run vista as is. Most computers made within the last two years are ready for vista right now.

    I've noticed many people mistaking "Running Vista" with "Running Aero Glass". If you turn off Aero Glass, it can run on old hardware.

    I'm about to install the pre-rc1 build on my wife's laptop. 512mb ram, pentium M 1.3ghz, radeon mobility 9000. I'm willing to bet it will run just fine, perhaps not with Aero Glass, but well enough.
37. muddocktor

    Wandering about

    
    2 Sep '06, 4:03 pm

    Hey prime, if you are interested in it, I read the other day that M$ opened the latest build for downloading again, for 100,000 downloads. If you hurry, you might still be able to get it if you want to play with it.
38. primesuspect

    The Icrontic Guy

    
    2 Sep '06, 4:15 pm

    Yeah that's the one I grabbed. I'm using it right now, and plan on putting it on my wife's laptop.
39. Daxx

    Icrontic Duke of Haxor

    
    2 Sep '06, 10:35 pm

    Quoting primesuspect

    I also disagree. I'd say 80% of my customer's computers are ready to run vista as is. Most computers made within the last two years are ready for vista right now.

    I've noticed many people mistaking "Running Vista" with "Running Aero Glass". If you turn off Aero Glass, it can run on old hardware.

    I'm about to install the pre-rc1 build on my wife's laptop. 512mb ram, pentium M 1.3ghz, radeon mobility 9000. I'm willing to bet it will run just fine, perhaps not with Aero Glass, but well enough.

    I disagree. If your system cannot run all the features of a new OS, up to and including Aero Glass, with it's present hardware, then your system is not VISTA ready. That's like saying your vehicle is flex fuel ready as long as you first remove the ethanol from the gas before you use it.
40. primesuspect

    The Icrontic Guy

    
    2 Sep '06, 10:38 pm

    I don't think corporate users need aero glass to be able to check their email while at the same time their administrator can enforce policy-based printer usage.
41. Daxx

    Icrontic Duke of Haxor

    
    2 Sep '06, 11:01 pm

    Quoting primesuspect

    I don't think corporate users need aero glass to be able to check their email while at the same time their administrator can enforce policy-based printer usage.

    Regardless of what is needed or it's intended use by various end users, if the system cannot utilize all the features of the new OS, then it is not Vista ready. Indisputably, Vista can be run on non-Vista ready systems with some features disabled; however, to truly be considered a Vista ready machine, all features must be supported.
42. profdlp

    Off To The Gym

    
    2 Sep '06, 11:14 pm

    I think the thing to keep in mind is that Microsoft is trying to meet the needs and wishes of disparate groups of users, knowing full well that not every user is going to be interested in every feature. Have a great machine and want glitz? They put it in there. Have specific business needs? They put that in there too.

    Think about all the features in WinXP (or Win98, or Win95, rtc) that you don't - and won't ever - use. They could lop off Outlook Express, WMP, IE, and a bunch of things and I would not care one hoot. Other users might consider those features critical.

    To me, it seems that they've done a fairly good job of trying to include something for everyone. Like any other consumer item, look for a product which has all the features you need, most or all of the features you want, and ignore the stuff you don't care about. I don't have any use for the ashtray in the back seat area of my car, but that doesn't mean the vehicle was a bad deal for me.
43. Daxx

    Icrontic Duke of Haxor

    
    2 Sep '06, 11:40 pm

    Quoting profdlp

    I don't have any use for the ashtray in the back seat area of my car, but that doesn't mean the vehicle was a bad deal for me.

    I'm going outside to stick a "Nascar Ready" sticker on my Honda Civic and head on over to the race track.
44. fatcat

    sasquatch wannabe

    
    3 Sep '06, 12:46 am

    Quoting Daxx

    I'm going outside to stick a "Nascar Ready" sticker on my Honda Civic and head on over to the race track.

    actually if u do a fuel strategy and can maintain minimum speeds you might have a good shot at winning
45. Daxx

    Icrontic Duke of Haxor

    
    3 Sep '06, 10:05 am

    Quoting fatcat6

    actually if u do a fuel strategy and can maintain minimum speeds you might have a good shot at winning

    Now that would be cool. Could you just see the look on those racer's faces when the Civic cruises through the checkered flag!
46. profdlp

    Off To The Gym

    
    3 Sep '06, 12:33 pm

    Just to stir the pot a little:

    Five Great Features in Windows Vista RC1
47. primesuspect

    The Icrontic Guy

    
    3 Sep '06, 3:54 pm

    Also: Solitaire is WAY, WAY cooler on Vista
48. profdlp

    Off To The Gym

    
    3 Sep '06, 5:28 pm

    As the reigning world champion in computer solitaire, I have to ask in what way is it cooler?
49. primesuspect

    The Icrontic Guy

    
    3 Sep '06, 6:26 pm

    enhanced graphics and sounds, plus a neat feature that sends all possible cards home if you right click. When you have all the cards lined up right, and you right click, it is an extremely satisfying rush of all cards home. Ah
50. profdlp

    Off To The Gym

    
    3 Sep '06, 6:42 pm

    Quoting primesuspect

    enhanced graphics and sounds...

    What sounds? A "cooler" drip..drip... noise?

    ...plus a neat feature that sends all possible cards home if you right click. When you have all the cards lined up right, and you right click, it is an extremely satisfying rush of all cards home. Ah

    You can do that in WinXP!

24 More Comments in the Forum »

New Features on Icrontic: