where is the debate forum???

BriltBrilt brooklyn
edited June 2003 in Community
where is the debate forum??? :aol:
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Comments

  • LawnMMLawnMM Colorado
    edited June 2003
    Brilt said
    where is the debate forum??? :aol:

    Why, feeling like an argument?! :mad: Bring it! :banghead:


    Just kiddin' :D
  • ShortyShorty Manchester, UK Icrontian
    edited June 2003
    We thought about, we talked about and I nearly hit the button to add it... but

    It just causes far too much hassle for any good it might do. So we decided not to have one.
  • HawkHawk Fla Icrontian
    edited June 2003
    I thought thats what forums are for? Debating.
  • SlickSlick Upstate New York
    edited June 2003
    I agree, that was one of the very best forums back at icrontic. I know that this isnt icrontic, but I thought it was aimed toward what the people wanted. Just place some extra staff in the debate forum to make sure things do not get out of hand.
  • jimzinsocaljimzinsocal Sunset Harbor N.C.
    edited June 2003
    We set one up at amdmb.com.....much like you guys had at Icrontic...matter of fact...it was Icrontic member Tabasco...that suggested the form(a sub forum). For me its proven to be a huge success. Not my genius....Im just a mod of TLR at amdmb...but it sure has worked. JimZ:)
  • mmonninmmonnin Centreville, VA
    edited June 2003
    If we were going to have one, I would like to keep it to hardware, software, technology, etc. Some of the political stuff gets too heated.
  • BriltBrilt brooklyn
    edited June 2003
    Shorty said
    We thought about, we talked about and I nearly hit the button to add it... but

    It just causes far too much hassle for any good it might do. So we decided not to have one.

    Shorty I understand that the debate forum would bring some arguments but that’s what debating is except it is more civilized. I feel that if the debate (sub)forum is available that there will be a wealth of information on many subjects that all members can learn from.
    It also allows members to further their skills for the real world and other social venues which if truth be told a lot of us aren’t that comfortable with (not me as you can tell you can’t shut me up :) )
    If you worried about things going amiss maybe stricter rules for the debate (sub) forum could be placed.

    If your unsure if everyone wants it maybe you can make a poll on the main page to see if people want it. It’s just an idea :nudge:
  • ShortyShorty Manchester, UK Icrontian
    edited June 2003
    The problem with "stricter" rules is they are hard to implement. When we do enforce them, members consider us to be too harsh with them (even though they agreed to them).

    Truthfully, we don't want to have "enforce" rules too harsh here. Debate will cause some people to fall out and argue. This is the nature of debate sometimes (not always.. please note!).

    It can get messy and while on the surface seems to be chugging along, it can get out of hand very quickly.

    I know of three online forums who have had debate areas and have now closed & archived them. Im certainly not saying that it is guaranteed to fail, but it's just something we don't wish to "try". There are just too many "possibles" and issues that can arise from it.
  • SlickSlick
    goes and checks out the new icrontic.com...
    Upstate New York
    edited June 2003
    goes and checks out the new icrontic.com...
  • ThraxThrax 🐌 Austin, TX Icrontian
    edited June 2003
    Bring back the debate forum you liberal Brit! How dare you kill my brain-child!
  • profdlpprofdlp The Holy City Of Westlake, Ohio
    edited June 2003
    I find myself torn on this one. On one hand I enjoy a lively political debate as much as anyone. On the other hand, I do see a real threat that two people who might cheerfully disagree over MB brands or BIOS settings could become bitter enemies because of something that happened during a political discussion. I confess that I have sometimes posted comments in the heat of the moment which I later regretted. (My Scotch-Irish ancestry, no doubt). :D

    There are plenty of Blogs and political sites out there for that sort of thing, I guess I'd just hate to see bad feelings arise due to a topic which is way off the focus of a tech site.

    But I won't argue too hard either way.:cool:

    Prof
  • MrBillMrBill Missouri Member
    edited June 2003
    profdlp said
    I guess I'd just hate to see bad feelings arise due to a topic which is way off the focus of a tech site.
    That is what I believe to be the core reason for not having a debate forum. :)
  • mmonninmmonnin Centreville, VA
    edited June 2003
    Thats what I think MrBill. One of the major complains I heard about ICF before it went down the crapper is that there was too much OT. It got away from the tech site it used to be.
  • ThraxThrax 🐌 Austin, TX Icrontian
    edited June 2003
    It got away from being a tech site because the tech sector stagnated for the better part of seven months.

    The Radeon 9700 had established itself as the video leader for close to a year, there was nothing innovative to be had in the video market.

    The KT333 was the leader for about 5 months, and the nForce2 for the remainder of that time. There were no innovative products in an AMD-centric community. Canterwood and Springdale were blips on the radar in our community.

    The Intel vs. AMD debate had been discussed ad-nauseum, and despite the further production of newer Athlon cores, everyone ended up getting the same damn thing (JIUHB) stifling any discussion.

    Cases? Chieftec.
    Processors? AGOIA 1600; JIUHB 1700.
    Motherboards? KT333 (8K5A3+/KX7-333R)/nForce2 (8RDA+, NF7-S 2.0, A7N8X).
    Video cards? Radeon 9700 Pro.
    Monitors? Not a big topic.
    Hard drives? WD Caviar.
    RAM? Corsair.

    We all got the same things at the same time.

    One cannot be an innovative tech site when there is no innovation to discuss. Where does a group of people who love their community go when the primary function of their site capsizes? Off topic.

    You can see it here too. Go look at off topic, and then look back at all the other forums. People are asking the same questions as before, and the volume of off-topic posts surpasses that of any other forum.

    Don't expect a big leap in technical posts until September.
  • AranyicAranyic Casstown, OH Icrontian
    edited June 2003
    Thrax just hit the nail on the head.
  • edited June 2003
    Thrax brings up some very valid points. There might be relief on the horizon though, with Canterwood and Springdale just being released, though Intel's price points for the 200 fsb P4's is still kind of high. Plus, with the release of Athlon 64 in a few months as well as the .09 micron process P4's, we might have some new tech stuff to debate about, but it is pretty well known right now that outside of extreme cooling, the fastest rigs are P4 based and the value leader is the XP rigs.
  • profdlpprofdlp The Holy City Of Westlake, Ohio
    edited June 2003
    I enjoy the "New Hardware" debates, and agree that there hasn't been as much to talk about in that area as of late.

    But I really like the troubleshooting stuff. It is a nice feeling to have someone you have helped out come back and say "Hey! Now it works!". And now is as good a time as any to once again thank all of you who have bailed ME out when I was up a creek.

    So, THANK YOU!:D


    Prof
  • MrBillMrBill Missouri Member
    edited June 2003
    MrBill said
    profdlp said
    I guess I'd just hate to see bad feelings arise due to a topic which is way off the focus of a tech site.
    That is what I believe to be the core reason for not having a debate forum. :)
    My point was that no matter what reason people are in the "debate forum", there will be ill feelings and people will get pissed off passed the point of any intelligent behavior.

    I am not questioning why people post in off topic....that is somewhat obvious. The lack of new/interesting hardware AND an "average maturity level" below what it takes to carry on intelligent debate without someone going off the deep are what leads to t-r-o-u-b-l-e.

    It's quite irontic that we seem to be debating having a debate forum. :)


    //edit: New hardware can and will be debated in the hardware forum. No need for a separate debate forum. IMHO. :)
  • primesuspectprimesuspect Beepin n' Boopin Detroit, MI Icrontian
    edited June 2003
    I try to look at it in a bit simpler way:

    This is a tech site, not a debate site or a political site. You wanna debate which video card is better? Great, post it in the video forum, and people will debate it. AMD vs. Intel? Perfect for the Hardware Discussion forum. You wanna talk about where the WMD's are, or why Bush's N. Korea policy is different from his Iraq policy, it doesn't really belong here. What does political debate have to do with Media, Hardware, Computers, or Technology in general?
  • SlickSlick Upstate New York
    edited June 2003
    What is the sence in the feedback forum. People tell you what they want, and you just seem to disregard it, or tell people it is a bad idea. Most of the ideas stated in these threads are great ideas if properly implemented, but it seems like you admins don't care to implement them, only tell us it causes to many problems.

    [EDIT] I just came up with the answer I was searching for why it seems to be crap. You say things are more trouble than they are worth. There are tons of people who would love to do the job. You have pretty much unlimted human resources if you think like that. I am sure tons of people would volunteer to mod a debate forum. How can you say its more trouble than its worth, just have someone else do it. If no one on your staff wants to do it, add more staff that do.
  • ThraxThrax 🐌 Austin, TX Icrontian
    edited June 2003
    Politics don't belong with technology?

    <iframe src=http://www.short-media.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?s=&forumid=23 height=600 width=800></iframe>


    And any of this does?

    I see your point, but it's grossly illogical.
  • profdlpprofdlp The Holy City Of Westlake, Ohio
    edited June 2003
    I think it's clear that the lack of the debate forum is not due to the trouble it would take to set one up, but due to the trouble it might cause afterwards.

    They could have twenty mods policing things, but the net result could be a bunch of people getting banned, and a bunch of others quitting the site in a huff.

    As far as the other suggestions, I'm sure that many of them will be implemented, just maybe not in the first week the site is open.:D


    Prof
    (Growing more patient in my old age).
  • profdlpprofdlp The Holy City Of Westlake, Ohio
    edited June 2003
    ...but, I can't see open warfare starting due to a disagreement over a post in the Babe Thread.:)

    Unless someone posts pictures of Roseanne...

    Prof
  • primesuspectprimesuspect Beepin n' Boopin Detroit, MI Icrontian
    edited June 2003
    Thrax said
    Politics don't belong with technology?

    <pic omitted>

    And any of this does?

    I see your point, but it's grossly illogical.

    Not really... I didn't say that any of those off-topic posts DID belong with technology.. That would be illogical.

    However, there is no such thing as a pure tech forum - the flavor of the forums is dictated by the posts. The topic of posts is guided by forum guidelines. Forum guidelines are drafted by the owners of the site. As the owners of the site, myself, Shorty, and MM have decided that we want to "guide" the forums in a technical direction, not a political direction. Who's to say what belongs with what? There's no such animal as a formula to tell us what belongs with what. All we can do is go with our gut feelings, backed up by experience from past forums and the maturity and wisdom that comes with living life. So, that's what we choose to do. We choose to guide the focus towards technical discussions, not political.

    And please don't try to turn this into a "You oppressors of freedom!" thing. There are a million forum sites out there. You want to debate politics? Go to http://www.political-debate.com/cgi-bin/amb/view.pl?board=pd

    You want religious discussions? I'm all for it, I'm a religious man. In fact, I'm starting a new forum site that's all about Buddhism. When it launches, I'll let you know.

    Seriously, this is not a nation. Your life does not depend on what your freedoms are or are not on this forum site. Just come here, talk tech and games and cool stuff with us, and leave the political debates at the door. Jeez!
  • ThraxThrax 🐌 Austin, TX Icrontian
    edited June 2003
    Frankly, I'm quite disgusted that you would insinuate that I even wish to turn this into an oppression of freedoms discussion.

    If we have no debate forum, then off topic will become one...It's inevitable. It was the very same reason why we created one on Icrontic, with the very same people. Let's just hope that guiding experience will make the same transition when inevitability becomes the present.
  • edited June 2003
    They have this feedback so that us users can make suggestions. They don't have to take them.

    In this case, the OWNERS of the site have said they don't want a debate forum.

    As much as some of us may disagree, that's tough.

    If you still want a forum for debating, other sites provide a forum for that.

    Don't jump down shorty's or prime's throat. This is their site, they can do with it what they want.
  • primesuspectprimesuspect Beepin n' Boopin Detroit, MI Icrontian
    edited June 2003
    §lick said
    What is the sence in the feedback forum. People tell you what they want, and you just seem to disregard it, or tell people it is a bad idea. Most of the ideas stated in these threads are great ideas if properly implemented, but it seems like you admins don't care to implement them, only tell us it causes to many problems.

    Thrax said
    Frankly, I'm quite disgusted that you would insinuate that I even wish to turn this into an oppression of freedoms discussion.

    Sorry Thrax, that oppression of freedom comment was directed at §lick's post, not yours. I should have clarified. I was responding to the last two posts. Gotta get used to this multiple quote feature :)

    I disagree with you (thrax :) ) that off-topic will become a debate thread. There will certainly from time to time be debatable material posted in off-topic, that's inevitable. But off topic is, for the most part, people having fun, getting a chance to become "friends" with other posters outside of the context of technical discussion.

    I don't know why people have such an issue with this. This and the "swear filter" are such hot topics. The ownership of this site has made some administrative decisions based upon our desires for the direction of this site. Everybody should respect our decisions. We are not a democracy here, unfortunately. That sounds harsh, but it's true. But we are all friends, and if suddenly we decreed that everybody must type 12345 at the end of their posts, or be banned, then you could probably convince us as to why that is a stupid idea. However, there is not really any chance at this time to convince us to create a debate forum. This site is only five days old, and we don't want a debate forum, plain and simple. I am not going to say that the possibility won't come up again, but for now, it's just not happening.
  • SlickSlick Upstate New York
    edited June 2003
    I am not saying you are an oppressor of freedom. I am just stating you have the resources to do it when you are telling us you don't.
  • ShortyShorty Manchester, UK Icrontian
    edited June 2003
    MoXon said
    They have this feedback so that us users can make suggestions. They don't have to take them.

    In this case, the OWNERS of the site have said they don't want a debate forum.

    As much as some of us may disagree, that's tough.

    If you still want a forum for debating, other sites provide a forum for that.

    Don't jump down shorty's or prime's throat. This is their site, they can do with it what they want.

    Exactly. We have to make decisions. Some will be liked and some will not. This is one decision that only a few have disliked.
    §lick said
    I am not saying you are an oppressor of freedom. I am just stating you have the resources to do it when you are telling us you don't.

    We do have the resources. We also have our opinions. We have stated clearly that we don't want a debate forum at this time. In the future, it could well become a possibility. At this stage (less than a week old!), we are not intending on implementing one.

    That is the stance and decision. Not yet, maybe later.
  • edited June 2003
    Slick,

    Shorty, prime and MM have their plate full right now with trying to get the front page going and finish ironing out everything here in the forums. Heck man, we've been back live for less than a week; give it some time. Right before the IC forums died, there was almost no traffic in Debates there anyways. I know because I was one of the mods in Debates.

    Shorty has not said that there will never be a Debates forum here; he has said not at this time. Give it a while and let things settle down and then maybe there will be time to discuss the merits/drawbacks of a Debate forum.

    As for myself, I think that if a Debates forums is set up here, political and religious topics should be banned because they are too easy to get flame wars started with. Tempers are very easily flared up when someone diagrees with your viewpoint/opinion on these subjects and then the harsh words start flying and before you know it, someone is banned.:eek:
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