Trying Linux again - be ready

ShortyShorty Manchester, UK Icrontian
edited June 2003 in Science & Tech
Ok.. truth is .. my humble Windows 2003 server hates VBulletin and definitely hates any Apache/Linux type web software.

Apache is fugly under Win2K3.. and Im sick of it acting like a beast when I have more important things to be doing... so....

Mandrake 9 here we come :) Yes, I am fully aware it is a "n00b" distro and my previous adventures have been somewhat moronic. This time I have to learn it if I wish to continue the work we have started on this site :eek:

So.. if I stumble along the way (although my crash course so far these past two weeks has been good) .. please help me refind my feet :) without laughing too hard.

I want to tackle and master it properly, so I don't have to rely on teh pretty GUI like I always have done before.

Tk.. dude.. you are a superhero for putting up with my dumbass questions so far.. hope you don't mind a few more! .. lol

-Shorty .. wantin to know more

Comments

  • GHoosdumGHoosdum Icrontian
    edited June 2003
    Just to satisfy my burning curiosity, why Mandrake and not Redhat? (I just love those fedoras)
  • ThraxThrax 🐌 Austin, TX Icrontian
    edited June 2003
    He's a Brit, it's rather obvious that he likes bowler hats. :D
  • GHoosdumGHoosdum Icrontian
    edited June 2003
    Riiiiight... that clears it up, thanks Thrax! ;)
  • ThraxThrax 🐌 Austin, TX Icrontian
    edited June 2003
    Not a problem.

    <i>[: Thrax smirks wryly :]</i>
  • ShortyShorty Manchester, UK Icrontian
    edited June 2003
    Thrax said
    Not a problem.

    <i>[: Thrax smirks wryly :]</i>

    *Cough* Smug git *cough*
  • -tk-tk Detroit, MI USA Icrontian
    edited June 2003
    Shorty said

    Tk.. dude.. you are a superhero for putting up with my dumbass questions so far.. hope you don't mind a few more! .. lol

    -Shorty .. wantin to know more [/B]

    there are no stupid questions, only stupid answers
  • ThraxThrax 🐌 Austin, TX Icrontian
    edited June 2003
    Shorty said
    Thrax said
    Not a problem.

    &lt;i&gt;[: Thrax smirks wryly :]&lt;/i&gt;

    *Cough* Smug git *cough*

    What was that mate? You had a cough going...Couldn't quite hear you.

    <i>[: Thrax extends a cough drop to Shorty :]</i>
  • danball1976danball1976 Wichita Falls, TX
    edited June 2003
    I am downloading Mandrake 9.1, One ISO a day (don't want to go close to the average daily download limit on my cable service)
  • SlickSlick Upstate New York
    edited June 2003
    3 days later...
  • call2call2 Stroud UK
    edited June 2003
    Just out of curiosity, I decided to try a few Linux distros to see if there was one that really stood out, for me anyway. I didn't really like any of them and because my last 15 years at work was spent mainly on Unix boxes, and I HATED the s/ware, I realised that Linux is not my bag. I don't find Unix/Linux easy to learn or easy to run with. I was an engineer with electro-mechanical accounting machines - clonkitybonk stuff. When electronic kit began to really make a difference to computing I was moved into mainframe computing and lots of different s/ware systems followed. I didn't get into PCs until about 1996 and DOS was ok. But Microsoft made all the difference to me and millions of others who didn't really want to "waste time" keying in commands. (After all it's a computer ain't it? It should know what I want!) I worked on the very early NT and thought that NTFS was very good.

    What is really wanted by most of the business IMO is a good journaling system that can be automatically switched off when running programs that don't need the security - like games - and 64/128 bits, so that it can take care of developments in encryption/security. Naturally a good clean and TOTALLY configurable GUI that should give everyone the opportunity to have the "face" of their computer look how they want it. I love Windows 98 for its clear clean lines and detest XP for the cluttered look that can't be configured completely to how I want it. XP is also so bloated that it's far too much for most inexperienced users and not required for the family PC. But Linux is too fragile at present to take over the family PC where various inexperienced users would soon destroy the filesystem with their actions. All of my Linux "trials" brought back that old command line Unix feeling that I loath and the GUIs are a bit flakey, so I'm still chugging along with 98/2000 but waiting for something better, and Linux isn't going to be the thing. Not for me anyway.

    What a rant. Sorry if it's a load of rubbish. It's my age.
  • LawnMMLawnMM Colorado
    edited June 2003
    Keep in mind Mandrake no likey Highpoint Raid controllers...I forget which frickin mobo you're running now, but thats a consideration with my rig :(
  • EnverexEnverex Worcester, UK Icrontian
    edited June 2003
    Why not Windows 2000 Advanced Server?

    NS
  • ShortyShorty Manchester, UK Icrontian
    edited June 2003
    Because Im using software that will only work on Linux :rolleyes:
  • EnverexEnverex Worcester, UK Icrontian
    edited June 2003
    But you WERE using 2k3.......

    NS
  • SlickSlick Upstate New York
    edited June 2003
    No a linux OS is not going to take over as a family PC, but not for the reasons you listed. If one person in the family knows how to use it, they just configure the permissions for the other users, that way, the less experienced ones dont go destroying the thing. Just linux at the moment is more business than fun. Linux games suck and who wants to use a windows emulator.
  • KwitkoKwitko Sheriff of Banning (Retired) By the thing near the stuff Icrontian
    edited June 2003
    Shorty said
    Mandrake 9 here we come

    Since you'll be running a server, how about OpenBSD? Safe, secure, and the ISO is only 2.8MB! Or you could always go the route I did, with Slackware, or go the route I tried but gave up because of time- Gentoo Linux. It only took 2 days to compile KDE from source with Gentoo!

    Make sure that if you're going MDK that you install only what you need. No need for a fancy GUI with a server. Just the basic components then compile Apache, PHP, and MySQL from source. Don't fret, Shorty. We'll help you. Maybe.
    -tk said


    there are no stupid questions, only stupid answers

    Nope, there are no stupid questions, just stupid people. :D
  • EMTEMT Seattle, WA Icrontian
    edited June 2003
    LawnMM said
    Keep in mind Mandrake no likey Highpoint Raid controllers...I forget which frickin mobo you're running now, but thats a consideration with my rig :(

    I remember trying RedHat a while back (KT7-RAID) and the installation never worked because the HDD was on the HighPoint. Later I tried Mandrake and it succeeded.
  • RobRob Detroit, MI
    edited June 2003
    For a 'server' I would recommend Redhat 7.3 or Suse.

    I never did like the tools in mandrake, and the focus always seemed to be on desktop tools from what I saw of it. And I found the general administration a bit 'off', being that each distro manages and tweaks there administration tools.

    Take a look at what the pro's are using, its Redhat 7.X, enterprise line, and Suse. I would go as far as BSD, but be prepaired for a experience :)
  • RobRob Detroit, MI
    edited June 2003
    And FYI, the highpoint issues are kernel related. Redhat 7.3 and on support most highpoints. BUT, keep in mind these are NOT server class raids. I use them as standard channels, and the OS does a much better job with the raid functions.
  • EMTEMT Seattle, WA Icrontian
    edited June 2003
    Rob said
    And FYI, the highpoint issues are kernel related. Redhat 7.3 and on support most highpoints.

    Well, it was in the installation that RedHat failed for me. It had no idea where the drive was, but Mandrake was able to find it and install smoothly, less than a month after trying RH.
  • RobRob Detroit, MI
    edited June 2003
    Well, to boot linux, your booting to a running Kernel. once you have a Kernel, then you can load other things, like an install program (Anaconda).

    If the Kernel doesn't see the device, then you cant exact install to it can you?? Once your kernel reconizes the device, then you can load the driver disk from highpoint, or use them as bare devices. You could install to either..
  • ShortyShorty Manchester, UK Icrontian
    edited June 2003
    From my memory of using a highpoint controller.. the "noprobe" command in the booting stages will make Redhat detect the RAID array. You have to edit a file (can't remember) to make it always do that on boot :) It's listed in the docs on the highpoint site.

    Mandrake really detested my nForce2 shuttle :( I did give it a go but got tied up doing other things anyway last nite.

    I reused my old RH9 CD's an hour ago :) Much better results. Installed an updated network driver and Im live with the box.

    Then downloaded the .rpm's for MySQL and it working.

    Downloaded .src's for PHP and apache and recompiled them and installed those to. They also work. Gonna do some testing now and see if it was as much of a success I *think* it is :rolleyes:
  • ShortyShorty Manchester, UK Icrontian
    edited June 2003
    Thanks for the reply John :)

    My main problem is that I am really new to this environment. Forgive my ignorance or lack of understanding on some of the things you have said. I followed some very clearly laid out instructions to get those 3 programs installed.

    I have started reading up and will continue to learn, so that I can understand fully what you said there. What I can tell definitely from your post.. is that using pre-compiled, packaged drivers & installations are not the best. Simple to do for a newbie but harder to update and can be wrong if things change. Is that right?

    Go gentle with me on this because my knowledge on this is weak.
  • RobRob Detroit, MI
    edited June 2003
    I've worked with the 372 just fine, you dont need there driver disk, or the bios support. I would acually recommend against using the highpoint drivers for the raid functions, and treat it like 2 normal channels. Overall, its not a ideal raid platform to begin with, basically you get a couple channels out of the deal. Those 'software' controllers are really just a patch to whats missing in windows, being you can raid your OS with a pre-emtive BIOS before you boot. In linux, you don't need it.

    Shorty, using the RPM's on a redhat system is always a good idea. Down the road, maintenence on one or more redhat box's is alot easier if you stick with the package manager. In some instances you do need custom packages, but I haven't seen you mention anything yet.

    Don't let his compiler mumlbe jumble scare you. 99.9% of the software you need is readily availible. Only some proprietary drivers and such (i.e. highpoint, nvidia) are annoying and unnessisary.

    You are building a server right? CLI only? Grab putty, and forget about nvidia drivers.

    If you need a hand ya know where I'm at. I could settup apache, php, mysql box's in my sleep, hell I think I have.
  • danball1976danball1976 Wichita Falls, TX
    edited June 2003
    LawnMM said
    Keep in mind Mandrake no likey Highpoint Raid controllers...I forget which frickin mobo you're running now, but thats a consideration with my rig :(

    I have a KD7-RAID, but I was going to try it on my Laptop first once I get all the stuff downloaded and burned to CD.

    Also, when I do install Mandrake on my computer, the hard drive I am using will be on the VIA IDE controllers. It is the 20GB Western Digital I am placing there (In place of my Zip250). I will also turn of the Highpoint Controller while installing it so that it won't detect those hard drives.

    I bought a Maxtor 120GB hard drive to replace the WD 20GB hard drive
  • ShortyShorty Manchester, UK Icrontian
    edited June 2003
    Thanks Rob :)

    Yeah.. I gave up on the GUI and just SSH-ed it with putty. I made a minor fubar with the httpd.conf file.. but I got it now (thanks Brian!)

    Il grab on ICQ in a week or so when things are a bit less manic!
  • AranyicAranyic Casstown, OH Icrontian
    edited June 2003
    Yep, best way to learn it is console. It's how I've been learning it the past month or so using FreeBSD. Never even setup a gui at all. Just plugging away at the keyboard, breaking a few things, get something to work occasionally and I've learned volumes so far. I'm starting to feel semi confterable at the console screen.
  • RobRob Detroit, MI
    edited June 2003
    Good work ;)

    CLI is the only way to administrate a server. Once you learn it, you will love it.


    now desktops? those are a different animal. Much harder to do right, driver issues like what was mentioned above, and alot more dependancys to fill (i.e gaming, email, browsing, IM's, etc)
  • LawnMMLawnMM Colorado
    edited June 2003
    EMT said
    LawnMM said
    Keep in mind Mandrake no likey Highpoint Raid controllers...I forget which frickin mobo you're running now, but thats a consideration with my rig :(

    I remember trying RedHat a while back (KT7-RAID) and the installation never worked because the HDD was on the HighPoint. Later I tried Mandrake and it succeeded.

    KT7 is probably supported, the newer HPT raid arrays aren't. I got a kernel panic every time unless I disabled my HPT controller in the bios.
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