Two RAIDs one machine

edited January 2009 in Hardware
hi all,

I am new here.


I have a got a RAID 5 configured having 3 SCSI HDs of 73GB with 10k on a Dell Poweredge 2800 machine. Windows Server 2003 was installed and running perfectly and suddenly I lost 2 of the 3 HDs. The system is not booting up any more but the HDs are detected and UP.

Now I want to install a new SCSI on RAID 0 with Windows Server 2003 and the old three HDs will remain over RAID5. This way I might be able to get the lost data back.
Do you guys suggest so? If yes, Then please let me know that how I can configure a 4th HD as a RAID 0 and at the same time old RAID5 array availability.

i can also install OS on the same array but I might loose data which is very important.


Thanks for any help.

Comments

  • mas0nmas0n howdy Icrontian
    edited January 2009
    I have had pretty bad luck with RAID 5 on several Dell PERC controllers. Drives constantly falling out of the array. However, you should be able to enter the RAID Controller's Setup and bring the disks back online. You might even call Dell support, they walked me through it the first time and can direct you to an updated BIOS that could fix the issue.

    You can run multiple arrays on your controller provided you have enough connections, but I feel compelled to ask why you would want RAID 0. Is this a business environment?

    Welcome to Icrontic. :wave:
  • edited January 2009
    Yes its a business environment.
    Below are two different questions posted by me and answer of an expert may be. Do you think its the right way to recover the data? Also suggest how I can get two arrays running on one machine.


    Question ONE:
    I have a DELL Poweredge 2800 with a Raid 5 configrutaion of 3 hard drives capacity 73GB 10k Ultra 320 SCSI. Two of the hard discs started blinking 4 times per second which clearly states the hardware failure in dell systems. So 2 out of the 3 HDs stopped working. Unfortunately, I do not have any backup. frown.gif

    I tried to bring the hard drives ONLINE by FORCE option provided in the utility manager to configure RAID and got the hard drives up but couldn't login to windows server 2003. It started showing NTLDR, NTDETECT and ntsokrl.exe missing messages. I also copied the files using recovery console with Windows Server installation CD but still no use and system is not booting up anymore.

    How I can recover the data back. Is it possible to get back? I offcourse do not require each and everything stored on the Hard drive but one SQL Server database and a folder of more than 50k employees pictures is very important.

    Answer:
    Likely you could get the OS running with an "over the top" Win 2003 repair install but this will lessen your chance at data recovery. Personally I would add another disk as a single drive (raid 0 ), get the OS installed on that disk, then pull off any needed data from the original array. If you proceed with the original array restoration, there is a very good chance original data will be over written, due to corruption.

    Question TWO:
    Can you please provide some basic steps that how should I add a single drive Raid 0? I really dont know how to configure two arrays on one machine and bootup fromt the newly installed and use the old one as secondary.

    Thanks for any help.
  • kryystkryyst Ontario, Canada
    edited January 2009
    Put the 4th harddrive in the machine.

    Go into your raid manager, create the raid 0.

    Once you have two raids you should be able to define their order.

    Install the OS onto raid 0.

    Once it's backup try and recover your data.

    Once/if the data is recovered I'd highly recommend backing up that data into something off the server, external harddrive, another server dvd's if you have to. Then you really need to try and figure out what went wrong. If it was a controller error, a failing harddrive etc....

    Then I'd blow everything away run some drive integrity tests do a low level format run more tests do another low level format more tests, install an OS do another integrity test. Get a 24hr burn in software program and run a serious stress test on the system. Basically you need to rule out hardware error from bad luck.

    Then you should go about rebuilding the server.
  • edited January 2009
    Thanks for a useful reply but I still have a couple of concerns hopefully you can guide me.

    kryyst wrote:

    Put the 4th harddrive in the machine.

    Go into your raid manager, create the raid 0.
    Once you have two raids you should be able to define their order.
    Install the OS onto raid 0.

    1. Can I make raid 0 with one drive?

    2. Should I remove other 3 HDs(on RAID5) before I attach new drive(s) for RAID 0.


    Thanks again.
  • SnarkasmSnarkasm Madison, WI Icrontian
    edited January 2009
    1) No.
  • edited January 2009
    Then it must be two hard drives, it means 4th and 5th. What about the second question. Can i really have two arrays? and install OS on the newly created array. Although I have a capacity of 8 HDs in my server.
  • TexTex Dallas/Ft. Worth
    edited January 2009
    I never see what controller your running. I have done a LOT of work with the dell perc raid controllers.

    If you lost 2 of the three drives in a raid 5 your pretty screwed. Can you be more exact on how or what failed? No backup of this data in a business environment. WHY? Raid in any form does not keep normal backups from being performed. You still backup.

    You can throw in a single drive on a perc raid controller and make it a raid-o array. And make it bootable.

    BE CAREFUL if you keep those other drives installed and do another OS install as if that array is broke your going to see them as individual drives on the OS install and it would be very easy to trash one of the drives you need for the raid 5.

    If it was me I would unplug them just to be safe.

    But I would like more info on what happened to that array. I dont hit this site as much anymore so PM or email me for help. I used to buy and sell the LSI/PERC controllers and know them very well.

    Cheers

    Cowboy
  • KometeKomete Member
    edited January 2009
    Woa.. it is the legend himself, in the flesh. SUP TEX!
  • TexTex Dallas/Ft. Worth
    edited January 2009
    still around... (wink)
  • edited January 2009
    Thats pretty helpful to me cowboy.

    Here are the details of controller;

    Poweredge Expandable RAID Controller BIOS H438 (Build Feb25, 2005) LSI Logic Corp.

    I have also taken some screen shots during the boot of server and attached below. Please assist what exactly can be done to get the data back which is very very important.

    Although I am getting a SCSI HD to create a RAID 0 and install OS and later connecting the three HDs to grab data if possible.

    Thanks.
  • TexTex Dallas/Ft. Worth
    edited January 2009
    what is wrong with the array? Your pics dont tell me anything inside that raid bios.

    I need to know WHY that array failed. As I said I said I have setup hundreds of arrays on that controller. You lucked out and actually have some one helping you for FREE that usually charges $125 an hour. And thats for normal work not data recovery on a failed raid scsi array. What your wanting could cost a LOT of money. I am here for FREE to Icrontic users only.

    But you have to give me more info here. I need screen shots or info on whats in that raid bios screen shot. I want to know the drives and status etc... The shots you gave me are not helping a lot.

    Cowboy
  • edited January 2009
    Thank you so much for your help. I know .. no brunch is free but still I am getting.

    Actually when I saw server first time after I couldnt find it online on the network it was showing en error message on LED

    E0D76
    BP Drive 1
    BR Drive 2

    Both the drives were blinking four times per second which was the obvious reason. I turned off the server, changed the ID slot for drive 1 and 2 not for 0 and then turned on the server again. It was the same problem.

    Next I again restarted the server and through the utlity manager I brought both the drives online by FORCE, restarted again but couldnt boot up the system. I also changed the HD slot from 0, 1, 2 to other slots and checked and it didnt work and for every time i used to change the slot HDs used to blink and I dont wanted to use to force online mechanism again and again to get the HDs up.

    I have attached some screen shots from the utility manager please have a look, assist and let me know what other screen shots you need.

    Should I purchase new SCSI and install OS Win2k3 to boot and attach the old three HDs?



    Thanks.
  • TexTex Dallas/Ft. Worth
    edited January 2009
    hazee wrote:
    Thank you so much for your help. I know .. no brunch is free but still I am getting.

    Actually when I saw server first time after I couldnt find it online on the network it was showing en error message on LED

    E0D76
    BP Drive 1
    BR Drive 2

    Both the drives were blinking four times per second which was the obvious reason. I turned off the server, changed the ID slot for drive 1 and 2 not for 0 and then turned on the server again. It was the same problem.

    Next I again restarted the server and through the utlity manager I brought both the drives online by FORCE, restarted again but couldnt boot up the system. I also changed the HD slot from 0, 1, 2 to other slots and checked and it didnt work and for every time i used to change the slot HDs used to blink and I dont wanted to use to force online mechanism again and again to get the HDs up.

    I have attached some screen shots from the utility manager please have a look, assist and let me know what other screen shots you need.

    Should I purchase new SCSI and install OS Win2k3 to boot and attach the old three HDs?



    Thanks.

    Your problem without spending tens of thousands of dollars is recovering that array. Its not trying to recover the drives. They appear alive. But recreating that raid-5 array into working data is not an easy task. There is software that can attempt to recover a failed array as well as data recovery services. This is very pricey..... This is a LOT harder then recovering data from single failed drives. Because your data resides across multiple drives like this even if we use recovery software on a single drive your still screwed because we have to recreate the array intact. When you create a raid-5 array you kill the data on those drives.

    This is why raid is NOT a reason to not backup. You ALWAYS backup anyway. Crap hang a USB ide drive off and backup if you cant get a tape backup. There is no excuse possible to not backup. No level of raid keeps you from backing up.

    I paid cash for a porsche 928 by recovering an array like this on a unix/oracle box a few years back when they had no backups and there was no other hope. (wink) They also saw raid-5 as an excuse to not back up... They lost that bet. And I bought a porsche and got their accounting system up with no lost data but...

    The question you honestly need to be asking right now is WHEN was the last valid backup done. Because THAT is the only real option right now without someone like me involved and spending a lot of money in the HOPE I get it back. There is no guarantee and no promises on a gig like this. You pray... This isnt raid-1 where its a mirror. You have two out of three drives failed in a raid-5 array.

    If you cant go into the raid-bios and force those drives online and have that array come up clean then for a reasonable amount of money contact LSI and see what they say. I am NOT going to be P.C. here but dont contact Dell unless you can get through the first couple tiers of support which is guys in India answering your call. they are numbnuts. You need the storage subsystem experts at Dell. Anyone else is just a numbnut and your going to kill any hope you have because they are clueless. You screw up a drive and your toast. Your lucky if the dip sh1t you call at Dell can spell raid even if you spot him two vowels to start with.... (long sigh...)

    LSI makes that controller not Dell. Go to them. You get front line real support on that controller. Your problem is you pay for it because they are free pretty much as long as its a LSI serial number.... yours is going to be Dell. Tell them you will pay but you need help.

    Not trying to leave you hanging. You need REAL help. I wish I had a magic wand to make this situation all better. There isnt one OK? Contact LSI and beg.....

    You can buy another scsi drive and install the OS.... But your pissing into the wind... That isnt getting that data back. Its buying ya time stalling the outcome.

    When was the last real backup? Honestly THAT is the plan of action you need to kick into gear.

    Cowboy
  • edited January 2009
    I have installed a new SCSI, configuered RAID 0 and installed a new OS. System is UP and running. Befor installation I removed the three HDs which were configuered for RAID5.

    Now when I connect the three HDs back and try to boot system with the newly installed SCSI it doesnt bring the 3 HDs online(Raid5). Rather it just shows the READY title in Utility Manager.


    Now it means I have to recreate array. If I do that I will loose the data. Is there any other way that I can bring these HDs online and I should be able to boot the system with the newly installed HD?

    Plz assist.
    I have screen shots of the utility manager attached.

    0,1,2 are the old RAID5 configuered HDs.
    4 is the newly installed and configuered for Raid0.


    Regards
  • TexTex Dallas/Ft. Worth
    edited January 2009
    its not showing an array available for that raid-5 array bud. Yes your correct if you create a new array your cooked. You need professional help to salvage that array.

    Salvaging data from a raid-5 array is not like a single drive. No level of raid keeps you from backing up. EVER.

    there is SOME software that can recover it SOMETIMES without a profesional recovery service involved. You need drive space enough available to recover that array though
  • edited January 2009
    Tex wrote:
    its not showing an array available for that raid-5 array bud. Yes your correct if you create a new array your cooked. You need professional help to salvage that array.

    But where is the RAID? It was there already. I didn't clear it.
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