Question on videos and copyrights

TimTim Southwest PA Icrontian
edited December 2003 in Internet & Media
I'm planning the 42nd episode of my webshow which will be filmed this sunday evening. I'm going to talk about Kazaa and the whole RIAA / filesharing thing. I think filesharing is good and there's nothing illegal about it.

As part of the show, I'm planning to play part (30 seconds) of a music video from the late 80's.

It may be a dumb question, but I was wondering if that's okay or is it a potential copyright infringment? I don't think it is. It's not like the video is easily obtainable through any other source anymore. So no profit loss can happen. Plus, it's not even going to be the whole thing.

Comments

  • ShortyShorty Manchester, UK Icrontian
    edited December 2003
    No matter how small it is and how much you use, commercial or otherwise... it's still copyright infringement.

    There has been a lot of attention recently on copyright. A specially bizarre case I read recently was about MSN graphics groups. They are a group of enthuiasts who make desktop wallpaper and the such.. and use disney art. Not for profit, just for a bit of fun. Hell, even my mum is a member of such a group.

    Disney will get your "group" shutdown if you offer ANY disney image, no matter how small. Pedantic to the latter is our uncle Walt.

    Ask the copyright owner before you do your show and explain the circumstances. It will save you alot of effort in the long run.

    Copyright remains a deadly grey area, some of us even have sigs in forums and so on.. that potentially break copyright.. but are we making money from it? Nope, but it could get just like the RIAA.
  • TimTim Southwest PA Icrontian
    edited December 2003
    How am I supposed to be able to find out who holds the copyright on a song and video made over a decade ago? And even if I did figure out which record company it is, my email or phone call would probably get lost in the hundreds or thousands they get every day.

    Perhaps I'll just mention the song and artist by name and let people download it on their own to see it if they want to.

    Copyrights can be a real pain sometimes. They're impeding my creativity.
  • profdlpprofdlp The Holy City Of Westlake, Ohio
    edited December 2003
    Tim had this to say
    How am I supposed to be able to find out who holds the copyright on a song and video made over a decade ago? And even if I did figure out which record company it is, my email or phone call would probably get lost in the hundreds or thousands they get every day.

    Perhaps I'll just mention the song and artist by name and let people download it on their own to see it if they want to.

    Copyrights can be a real pain sometimes. They're impeding my creativity.
    Where did you get the sample video you want to use? You might contact them for information about its origin.

    As far as copyrights impeding your creativity, the original owners might view it as stealing their creativity. I mean that only in a very general sense (not as a personal attack); the fact that you even bother to ask indicates that you are an honest person. The problem stems from where one draws the line. The way US copyright laws are written, any company that doesn't agressively protect their copyright in every situation risks losing it altogether. "Aspirin" used to be a name brand. The company didn't complain loudly enough when other companies sold the same product (salicylic acid) under the name aspirin, now it's a generic term.

    I lived with a patent attorney for four years (nearly married her), she told me of lots of cases like this.

    If you can't get permission, your best bet is to try and use the video in a parody situation. That provides a great deal of protection - but only if the judge agrees with you that it is, indeed, a parody.
  • TimTim Southwest PA Icrontian
    edited December 2003
    I downloaded the video off of Kazaa. It's Cinderella's "Don't know what you got" song and video. No way to contact anyone about it. I thought it was pretty cool, and was going to use it to make a point that sometimes that's the only way to get something. I had last seen the video in 1992, then downloaded it early in 2003.

    And to keep the show short, I was planning for a 30 second or less part of it. I may just talk about it instead of showing it. I'm filming the show this evening.

    Or maybe I'll edit the show so that the video is at the end and will be easy to chop out if anyone complains about it.
  • primesuspectprimesuspect Beepin n' Boopin Detroit, MI Icrontian
    edited December 2003
    Tim had this to say
    No way to contact anyone about it.

    Now that's just not true. There are only two or three major musical "guilds" in the US - BMI and I forget the other one. All you need to do is contact the publisher and you can get a form faxed to you that you sign, saying that you intend to use this snippet for blah blah blah and you're not going to be selling the thing, and they'll say "no problem".. They might charge you a royalty, like $1 or $10 or something.

    It's really not that hard to do, and it will make it legal.
  • ShortyShorty Manchester, UK Icrontian
    edited December 2003
    Cinderella were signed to:

    Mercury/Polygram Records :)
  • CammanCamman NEW! England Icrontian
    edited December 2003
    primesuspect had this to say
    Tim had this to say
    No way to contact anyone about it.

    Now that's just not true. There are only two or three major musical "guilds" in the US - BMI and I forget the other one. All you need to do is contact the publisher and you can get a form faxed to you that you sign, saying that you intend to use this snippet for blah blah blah and you're not going to be selling the thing, and they'll say "no problem".. They might charge you a royalty, like $1 or $10 or something.

    It's really not that hard to do, and it will make it legal.

    Is this true? I've been looking to use certain songs for some of my movies I've been making and wanted to get permission to use them, but I've always thought it was like $15,000 or more dollars, somewhere around there, to license songs for video use like that. I could manage 1-10 dollars, just tell them its not to make money??
  • primesuspectprimesuspect Beepin n' Boopin Detroit, MI Icrontian
    edited December 2003
    ASCAP, that's the other big one that I forgot.

    Cam, I'm sure it depends entirely on the song. I would go to ASCAP or BMI's website to see what the real deal is.
  • primesuspectprimesuspect Beepin n' Boopin Detroit, MI Icrontian
    edited December 2003
    Here's BMI's digital license center:

    https://dlc.bmi.com/dlcmenu.asp
  • EnverexEnverex Worcester, UK Icrontian
    edited December 2003
    You say $1-$10, our Survey says..... $264 a year, minumum ( 0-500,000 hits to your webpage).

    NS
  • primesuspectprimesuspect Beepin n' Boopin Detroit, MI Icrontian
    edited December 2003
    I got my info from someone who is in the music biz, what Tim needs is a performance license not a web license. He doesn't want to put the song on his website. If the info is wrong, then the dude who told me is wrong :shrug:
  • EnverexEnverex Worcester, UK Icrontian
    edited December 2003
    primesuspect had this to say
    I got my info from someone who is in the music biz, what Tim needs is a performance license not a web license. He doesn't want to put the song on his website. If the info is wrong, then the dude who told me is wrong :shrug:
    I'm planning the 42nd episode of my webshow which will be filmed this sunday evening

    Webshow means it's going to be put on the web, which means the song will be on the site (though not in its entirety). Probably need to contact them directly though and give more information...

    NS
  • primesuspectprimesuspect Beepin n' Boopin Detroit, MI Icrontian
    edited December 2003
    I'm just saying that the video is considered a performance. The fact that the video is being made available for download on the web doesn't mean that it is legally defined as a website.
  • profdlpprofdlp The Holy City Of Westlake, Ohio
    edited December 2003
    I know that most copyright items allow for the use of a brief excerpt for review purposes. For instance, in a book review you could quote a paragraph or two without risk of penalty.

    Would the context of the presentation you are making qualify as a review in any sense?

    ...Prof sees himself named as a co-defendant... :p
  • TimTim Southwest PA Icrontian
    edited December 2003
    I ended up filming the show without the video in it. And then today, one of my usual detractors (Darth Bane) emailed me to say he was going to send my show's link to the RIAA. So I went back and chopped nearly 2 minutes out of the show to eliminate any references to actually doing anything on the filesharing services.

    I've got enough things giving me problems right now, don't need any more.

    But it would be nice if there was a clearly defined standard for showing parts of videos or whatever. Something like "Up to 30 seconds can be played without penalty". WHO is going to buy PART of a music video or song or whatever? No money to be made on part of something.

    Hey Camman, have you ever had anyone like Darth Bane at your site? For 42 episodes now, he's been telling me how bad my show is. And on about 10 occasions, he's emailed me about my newest show within 12 hours of me FTPing it to the site server!

    He/she loves to hate me. I wonder what he/she really looks like and what his/her life situation really is.
  • primesuspectprimesuspect Beepin n' Boopin Detroit, MI Icrontian
    edited December 2003
    Why don't you just IP ban that guy? He does nothing but give you crap
  • TimTim Southwest PA Icrontian
    edited December 2003
    He claims he's duping the IP address of someone else all the time. So if I banned that IP address he'd just find another to use.

    I actually find his comments rather amusing sometimes, but he never says anything but "BAD, BAD, BAD, I'm too fat, and the show sucks.".

    Back on the 3rd of this month, I added a topic to my message board for people to list their ideas of what the best and worst 3 episodes were. But after 5 days, no one has typed anything, not even Darth Bane. I thought for sure that at least Darth Bane would have something to say in that topic!

    For someone who hates my show so much, he's one of the most loyal viewers!
  • CammanCamman NEW! England Icrontian
    edited December 2003
    primesuspect had this to say
    Why don't you just IP ban that guy? He does nothing but give you crap


    Yeah, I agree. I haven't had anyone like that on the site, I've seen people say some pretty ****ty things about me/Linc on other sites, but, I just brush it off, they're on their own turf, if they bring it to my site they get their IP added to the nice little BANNED list for the forums/comment system.

    *also, I highly doubt he's "duping" anyones IP, that's just a bunch of bull****, I'm sure he's some 14 year old kid who needs something to do when he gets home from screwing off in school all day and has no idea how to do anything other than harass people on their message boards.
  • EnverexEnverex Worcester, UK Icrontian
    edited December 2003
    Just view the IP address he is posting with, that will show you if he is spoofing the IP or not. He is more than likely just all talk...

    NS
  • profdlpprofdlp The Holy City Of Westlake, Ohio
    edited December 2003
    Tim had this to say
    I actually find his comments rather amusing sometimes, but he never says anything but "BAD, BAD, BAD, I'm too fat, and the show sucks.".

    Back on the 3rd of this month, I added a topic to my message board for people to list their ideas of what the best and worst 3 episodes were. But after 5 days, no one has typed anything, not even Darth Bane. I thought for sure that at least Darth Bane would have something to say in that topic!

    For someone who hates my show so much, he's one of the most loyal viewers!

    Oscar Wilde:
    "There is only one thing in the world worse than being talked about, and that is not being talked about. "
    A man cannot be too careful in the choice of his enemies.
    The public is wonderfully tolerant. It forgives everything except genius.
    What is a cynic? A man who knows the price of everything and the value of nothing.
    Whenever people agree with me I always feel I must be wrong.
    In all matters of opinion, our adversaries are insane.
    Always forgive your enemies; nothing annoys them so much.

    Hey, I have to live up to the name "Prof" once in a while... :D
  • EnverexEnverex Worcester, UK Icrontian
    edited December 2003
    Just slightly off topic...

    Tim: You have put your website (www button) as your e-mail address.....

    NS
  • ThraxThrax 🐌 Austin, TX Icrontian
    edited December 2003
    The public is wonderfully tolerant. It forgives everything except genius.

    ...Story of my ****ing life.

    "Hey Thrax, put down the dictionary!"

    "Hey Thrax, put down the thesaurus!"

    "Hey Thrax, use some more big words for us!"
  • TimTim Southwest PA Icrontian
    edited December 2003
    Profdlp - some rather profound thoughts there. I especially liked the first and third ones.

    Nightshade737 - I never knew it was there. Never tried pressing the www button until you mentioned it.
  • a2jfreaka2jfreak Houston, TX Member
    edited December 2003
    I LOVE EPISODE 37! ;D;D;D;D;D
  • primesuspectprimesuspect Beepin n' Boopin Detroit, MI Icrontian
    Hey @Tim, remember your buddy Darth Bane? You think this is him?
    BuddyJ
  • BuddyJBuddyJ Dept. of Propaganda OKC Icrontian
    Apparently that neckbeard got deleted when tumblr mistakenly took Predditors down.

    Google Cache to the rescue!
    http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:predditors.tumblr.com
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