Goomba Stomp - Interest Gauge

ScratchScratch Florida, USA
edited July 2011 in Team Fortress 2
I'm interested in adding a Goomba Stomp plugin.

Now before you sperg out about how I'm killing the sanctity of your vanilla server, read this:

It is off by default and players opt-in on a client-by-client basis.

If you don't want to do it, you don't have to and new players won't by default. A stomp only takes place if both parties have enabled it.

The plugin didn't come this way. I have put in considerable effort into making it as unobtrusive as possible. Here is a list of changes I have made (note: These are not cvars. This wasn't as simple as changing a 1 to a 0. I opened the plugin's source and edited lots of code):
  • New players opt-out by default.
  • No sound downloading.
  • No global alerts in text chat to someone being stomp killed.

So there are effectively three stances that can be taken:
1) For it (Wants to stomp)
2) Neutral (Doesn't want to stomp, but doesn't care if other people do)
3) Against it (Doesn't want to stop and doesn't want other people to)

So where do the IC community/regulars stand?
«13

Comments

  • ScratchScratch Florida, USA
    edited December 2010
    There is also a second issue of whether or not you want it to go global during the humiliation round, allowing teammates to stomp on teammate's heads and losers to try for a lucky landing against the winners.

    (Teammate stomping will be disabled during normal play.)
  • colacola part legend, part devil... all man Balls deep Icrontian
    edited December 2010
    I like the idea
  • SnarkasmSnarkasm Madison, WI Icrontian
    edited December 2010
    How does it work in gameplay? How do you perform it, what does it achieve, etc. I know nothing about this except what a goomba stomp is in Mario and what the game TF2 is.
  • ScratchScratch Florida, USA
    edited December 2010
    Jumping (from a distance) onto a person's head instakills them. It could also do a set amount of damage, but typically its set for an instakill.

    The sound that plays during this youtube video is disabled in my edited version of the plugin, however the individual can download it manually if they want to hear it. My version is all about OPTIONS (and unobtrusiveness)!
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Af1u9vKgW4I

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3lZkZn4UDFc
  • shwaipshwaip bluffin' with my muffin Icrontian
    edited December 2010
    I don't like goomba stomp :/. I guess if both parties have to have it on, it's ok...but it's not something I like.
  • SnarkasmSnarkasm Madison, WI Icrontian
    edited December 2010
    Kind of gives the scout an added edge.

    It's neat. If both parties have to opt in, I'm cool with it.
  • TimTim Southwest PA Icrontian
    edited December 2010
    The server I play on (Orange X3 DDR) recently added it. I accidentally landed on a heavy while playing as a scout and instant-killed him. I've had others do it to me also.
  • SirCandleSirCandle New Haven
    edited December 2010
    As it is disabled automatically there is no logical reason why you would be against it. If you don't want to participate, don't! On the other hand, it adds a great little bonus and flavor to the game for those who enable. I support this 100%.
  • CantiCanti =/= smalltime http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9K18CGEeiI&feature=related Icrontian
    edited December 2010
    I'm cool with this. I've played with this mod before and it's actually pretty hard to pull off. It's more like something that just sorta happens rather than something you want to try to do all the time. Pretty funny when it works though.
  • ScratchScratch Florida, USA
    edited December 2010
    Alright, well I was having some issues with getting it to store client preferences, but I just finished sorting that out. The console command to enable/disable goomba stomping is:
    sm_goomba_toggle
    When you enable it, the server stores your preference and it will be enabled whenever you come back.

    I could make a chat command instead, if people would prefer. Something like !goomba
  • BobbyDigiBobbyDigi ? R U #Hats ! TX Icrontian
    edited December 2010
    Count me interested. Also +1 for chat command

    -Digi
  • ScratchScratch Florida, USA
    edited December 2010
    Alright, text commands are implimented.

    Type !goomba in text chat to enable or disable.
  • SirCandleSirCandle New Haven
    edited December 2010
    Goomba Stamp
  • UPSLynxUPSLynx :KAPPA: Redwood City, CA Icrontian
    edited December 2010
    We're not worried about this offsetting the dynamic of matches? I mean, consider a critical point, where a heavy with a medic is a last line of defense. If a scout comes along and gets lucky, that heavy is killed instantly where normally he'd be a force that required careful execution to dispatch. Something like that, regardless of opt-in, would still affect everyone playing.

    I'm not complaining, I'm really curious. I've never played TF2 with this mod.
  • Cliff_ForsterCliff_Forster Icrontian
    edited December 2010
    This is the beauty of PC gaming. So many mods and options. Personally I prefer my TF2 on the pure side, because I think it offers so much depth as it was designed, I'd go so far as to say most of the recent updates are unnecessary, but I do like to browse the server list for some of the variants to try. My take, is if your going to enable the mod, just enable it. The opt in/opt out kind of complicates it for the players on the server. If the mods think its worth a Thursday night session to gain some group understanding about how it impacts the play, just turn it on, its just a game after all. If enough guys hate it, you will find out fairly quick.
  • edited December 2010
    Regardless of whether the heavy is the last line of defense or not, with being able to opt-in, he should know whether goomba stomping is enabled or disabled for him. If it's enabled then, unless he's bad, he should be able to move (if he's paying attention). If it's not enabled for him, well, it won't do anything and we're solid.

    I think Scratch was trying to put in the opt-in system because he knew some people wouldn't want it. By having it opt-in, people who don't want it won't be discouraged when it comes to playing on the Icrontic server. Obviously it won't be as fun with some players not opting in, but if you're willing to take the risk, it'll be fun.

    Anyways, I enjoy goomba stomping, so I vote yes.

    I'd almost want it to be opt-out, with some kind of message when you join (only because otherwise there will only be Icrontians and regulars with it enabled, since new players won't know about it)

    Oh, and hello.
  • ardichokeardichoke Icrontian
    edited December 2010
    I'd vote against it on principle.

    Then again, I haven't played much Team Hat Trader 2 lately so...

    /me shrugs
  • UPSLynxUPSLynx :KAPPA: Redwood City, CA Icrontian
    edited December 2010
    Kryptic wrote:
    Regardless of whether the heavy is the last line of defense or not, with being able to opt-in, he should know whether goomba stomping is enabled or disabled for him. If it's enabled then, unless he's bad, he should be able to move (if he's paying attention). If it's not enabled for him, well, it won't do anything and we're solid.

    I think Scratch was trying to put in the opt-in system because he knew some people wouldn't want it. By having it opt-in, people who don't want it won't be discouraged when it comes to playing on the Icrontic server. Obviously it won't be as fun with some players not opting in, but if you're willing to take the risk, it'll be fun.

    Anyways, I enjoy goomba stomping, so I vote yes.

    I'd almost want it to be opt-out, with some kind of message when you join (only because otherwise there will only be Icrontians and regulars with it enabled, since new players won't know about it)

    Oh, and hello.

    Well sure, but the heavy's awareness is not the point. My point is that regardless of how carefull the players are with defending their heads, being killed instantly will affect the game for every one of the players. Regardless of your choice to opt in or out, a teammate's death still affects your game.
  • ScratchScratch Florida, USA
    edited December 2010
    UPSLynx wrote:
    If a scout comes along and gets lucky, that heavy is killed instantly where normally he'd be a force that required careful execution to dispatch.
    You're essentially arguing to remove random crits and damage spread as well. Luck already affects TF2 in a huge way and goomba stomping happens far more rarely than a death to a random crit, even on a server where it is enabled for everyone.
    My take, is if your going to enable the mod, just enable it. The opt in/opt out kind of complicates it for the players on the server.
    It really doesn't complicate anything for those who choose to keep it off. What changes? Its vanilla TF2 for those people. It is slightly more complicated for people who opt in, but its only regulars participating and we can tell who each other are based on hats and behavior.

    I recognize that not everyone enjoys non-vanilla play, so why shouldn't I accommodate both sides?
  • SirCandleSirCandle New Haven
    edited December 2010
    UPSLynx wrote:
    Well sure, but the heavy's awareness is not the point. My point is that regardless of how carefull the players are with defending their heads, being killed instantly will affect the game for every one of the players. Regardless of your choice to opt in or out, a teammate's death still affects your game.
    Explain to me how it is different from backstabs/headshots/criticals/etc...
  • ScratchScratch Florida, USA
    edited December 2010
    UPSLynx wrote:
    Regardless of your choice to opt in or out, a teammate's death still affects your game.
    So you're ready to make that teammate's choice for him? A teammate going sniper and getting one kill the whole round affects your game more than this plugin will, so should we remove useless players?

    Yeah, sometimes teammates make a choice that has a negative side affect, however if they're not intentionally trying to ruin your game, you should respect their decision.
  • CantiCanti =/= smalltime http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9K18CGEeiI&feature=related Icrontian
    edited December 2010
    Scratch wrote:
    Its vanilla TF2 for those people. It is slightly more complicated for people who opt in.

    >TF2
    >complicated

    http://www.tf2items.com/allitems.php

    NEVER
  • colacola part legend, part devil... all man Balls deep Icrontian
    edited December 2010
    Canti hwer whte vufk you beane
    ?
  • colacola part legend, part devil... all man Balls deep Icrontian
    edited December 2010
    HAHAHAHAHA
  • UPSLynxUPSLynx :KAPPA: Redwood City, CA Icrontian
    edited December 2010
    Man, take it easy all of you. I wasn't attacking any of you or the mod. I was only curious.

    I'm just simply stating - if an augmentation to the game allows a new one-hit style kill move, then I don't dig it. It almost makes the option of opting in or out silly, since no matter your decision, your game is still being affected by something that wasn't originally intended to be in the game. I dunno, it's just not something I would want.

    I don't need to explain how it differs from crits/backstabs, and I don't want to suggest that it's a matter of respecting decisions. I want Icrontic TF2 to not get mucked up by a bunch of extra add-on modifications. Why should I respect their decision, when it's my decision that's being ignored anyways?

    Opinions. Fascinating things.
  • ScratchScratch Florida, USA
    edited December 2010
    Maybe this wasn't explained well enough, but you're grossly overestimating how much this will affect your game. Even if all of the regulars enabled it, I wouldn't expect it to happen more than once per map. I would even bet money that you wouldn't notice it, if I didn't expect the stomper to tease the victim a bit over the mic.

    I realize how firmly you're dug in, though. Your opinion is noted and I, for one, respect your decision. ;)
  • ThraxThrax 🐌 Austin, TX Icrontian
    edited December 2010
    I don't play TF2 at all, so let me independently rearticulate Bobby's position to provide some clarity, as I see where he's coming from:

    Even if Goomba is enabled by each individual, that could still make or break the experience for everyone else on his or her team. What if a heavy is defending a point and gets stomped? What if a pyro that's been spy-checking the final point gets stomped?

    I could come up with a treasure trove of examples to illustrate how voluntarily activation can still compromise and/or totally change the ebb and flow of a game for everyone involved.

    Goomba stomping is not the same as criticals or backstabs. It's also categorically dissimilar to being killed by a sniper, or any other natural event of the game. Making sarcastic, fallacious (weak/false analogy anyone?) statements to defend an obvious decision just makes you look foolish.

    //EDIT: Asking "what could go wrong?" or "there's support on both sides, why SHOULDN'T we do it?" is a burden of proof fallacy. Rather than asking people to defend against the plugin, supporters should be working to prove why it should be enabled. "Some people want new gameplay" doesn't fly, either: Appeal to Novelty.
  • ardichokeardichoke Icrontian
    edited December 2010
    I love when Thrax waxes intellectual, pointing out the flaws in someones argument.... as long as its not mine, cuz then he's just a dickbag.
  • ScratchScratch Florida, USA
    edited December 2010
    No, I get where he's coming from.

    You can create hypothetical situations where a single stomp could affect the game and to someone who has never played on a server with it its a big and scary change, even if a small minority are doing it.

    However, those of us who have played with the plugin know it does not alter gameplay in any noticeable way, even on servers where stomp is enabled for everyone. In the time I've played on 2f2f (easily more than a couple hundred hours over the last few years), I have never seen a stomp make a difference outside of arena, where a death carries a much heavier consequence. I'm sorry I can't create a logically impervious argument to support that fact.
  • Cliff_ForsterCliff_Forster Icrontian
    edited December 2010
    There is also the "Its only a game" argument.

    Turn it on for a couple hours, drink a beer, have a few laughs, then if a few valued community members say, that was fun and all, but I've had enough, then you can turn it off.

    I still think the opt in/opt out is just to appease a few people that perhaps take their TF2 a little too seriously. Like I said, I am kind of with Lynx on my preferred brand of TF2, I think its a great game pure, as it is, but once again guys, its just a game, if someone is kind enough to take a little time out of their lives to moderate that server, and they say, guess what everybody, I wanna try Goomba Stomp for an hour, just to see how it plays, guess what, they turn it on, and you give it a fair shake. Is it fun, does it ruin it, who knows until everyone gets together and plays it a little. This is why we game on PC, we can do this crazy stuff just for kicks, again, because ITS ONLY A GAME.
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