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MLP: FiM discussion thread

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  • UPSLynxUPSLynx Top EA shill, The Dean of Computer Graphics Redwood City, CA Icrontian
    I see @Ilriyas' point and agree with him. When Yamino (sp?) got this whole ball rolling, her complaint was largely focused around the fact that it was insulting that Derpy was, in fact, a female character. It's a dumb argument for dumb reasons, and it really is unfortunate that this happened.

    Really, I'm OK with the voice change. I like the original better, but that's probably nostalgia at this point. Even the eyes don't bother me all that much. The removal of her name, however, is preposterous.

    I have an HD download of the unedited episode. If anyone wants it, say the word and I'll upload it.
  • UPSLynxUPSLynx Top EA shill, The Dean of Computer Graphics Redwood City, CA Icrontian
    edited Feb 2012
    Also, Kreoss' commentary on the matter (an animator from the show)

    image

    Also relevant:

    image
  • BHHammyBHHammy Somewhere in Hell Icrontian
    On the Yamino thing, that stinks of bullshit to me. She may have expressed a disliked opinion, but there wouldn't be a problem if that was all she did. She got the ball rolling on the letter-writing that supposedly helped cause this whole mess. Unless we get official word otherwise that this was purely an internal thing, the evidence points to the notion of she made her issue OUR issue.

    Honestly? This is the internet. She made her bed, she can lie in it. Yamino's no stranger to fighting contention on the things she believes in, I'll give her that. But in that same token, she shouldn't expect any sympathy when her actions stir people up into causing this resolution. People sending her stuff like death threats is fucked up (and folks shouldn't do that sort of thing), but that -is- something people on the internet do. It's something to be expected, unfortunately.

    I'm glad the guy is trying to go something decent for folks, and I agree people should probably let up on her, but in no way should we not be upset with her and her friends' actions. What has occurred is harmful to the show and to the community.
  • IlriyasIlriyas The Syrupy Canadian Toronto, Ontario Icrontian
    I'm not happy with this at all for reasons that I've already pointed out but unfortunately I don't think there's much that can be done now. Agreeing with Lynx (From earlier vent convos) Hasbro has displayed Derpy in a prominent scene in the show, by doing this they do effectively have ownership over her portrayal and no matter how upset I/we're upset over the whole thing they do technically have final say. We can present our opinions, and hell maybe it will get worked out in the end and I'm just being a pessimist but for now I'll step back, cool off and see how it goes I've never pushed myself into the fold of the 'Brony' community outside of Icrontic and I'm not planning on it anytime soon. I can at least be content with the fact that I have an HD copy of the unedited episode.

    Right now all I want to do is sit down with a good drink, watch ponies, and have a bloody good laugh while I'm at it, it's still an awesome show all things considered.
  • UPSLynxUPSLynx Top EA shill, The Dean of Computer Graphics Redwood City, CA Icrontian
    I'm pretty sure after all of this, we can forget ever seeing any more fanbase shoutouts from the studio. That sort of thing is all but ruined now.

    I too respect that he tried to give some defense regarding Yamino, but he's wrong about her. She and her massive group of tumblr followers served as the major catalyst for all of this. She may not have been the direct reason that Hasbro made the calls that they did, but I assure you, she is certainly the reason that any of this started in the first place.
  • colacola part legend, part devil... all man Balls deep Icrontian
    I'm kinda sick of people being offended for other people. I dislike the edit, simply because I like the original more.
  • RahnalH102RahnalH102 the Green Devout, Veteran Monster Hunter, Creature Enthusiast New Mexico Icrontian
    edited Feb 2012
    I see now.

    But I'm not gonna go into it. Couldn't think of a way to express my view without sounding like a jerk so I won't bother.

    Thinking about it drained so much out of me it's dangerous so I'm gonna drop the subject from my memory.

    Edit: I know I said I'd drop it but DA is swarming with the issue. I found a few journal entries by TomPreston (cool cartoonist, minecraft-ian, gamer, and brony) that pretty much sum up how I feel about it. Especially the 3rd Journal

    I saw a gif that had the mane cast bobbing their heads like Scoot and Applebloom did during the V-Day episode. The creator suggested an Aquabats / FIM crossover episode or something like that.
  • BandrikBandrik Elkhart, IN Icrontian
    The only thing I really want to add is that I actually like the new voice style. If that was the way Derpy sounded to begin with in the first cut, with nothing else changed, I would have been sitting quite happy. In fact, I lamented her deep boyish voice in the original showing.

    Having said that, the other edits are disappointing. I won't go rant and rave on the rooftops, but the fact they censored themselves is a rather wimpy cop-out. Too bad.
  • UPSLynxUPSLynx Top EA shill, The Dean of Computer Graphics Redwood City, CA Icrontian
  • RahnalH102RahnalH102 the Green Devout, Veteran Monster Hunter, Creature Enthusiast New Mexico Icrontian
    You would think a scene that practically screams "I NEED AN ADULT!" would have more of a reaction.

    Side note: So many cat-like movements (and expressions) in that scene. Where's the My Little Kitten picture.
  • UPSLynxUPSLynx Top EA shill, The Dean of Computer Graphics Redwood City, CA Icrontian
    One of the many reasons why Lesson Zero rules.
  • BHHammyBHHammy Somewhere in Hell Icrontian
    http://gawker.com/5889084/bronies-furious-after-minor-my-little-pony-character-is-changed-to-seem-less-mentally-disabled

    Quote from article, the official response on the whole Derpy thing from a Hasbro PR Rep-

    "The 'My Little Pony Friendship is Magic' series has always been about acceptance and inclusion, and the series strives to convey that through the playful antics of a diverse cast of characters," Hasbro spokeswoman Nicole Angello told us over email. "Some viewers felt that aspects of the episode 'The Last Roundup' did not stay true to the core message of friendship which is the heart and soul of the series. Hasbro Studios decided to make slight audio alterations to this single episode."

    EqD also added that The Hub said that this is the official Hasbro response they're supposed to use.

    So there it is, official word. Only took an entire weekend of flames for Hasbro to actually make a statement (and on Gawker of all places, ugh).

    So no, Derpy isn't going away. I'm not happy that they've chosen to completely neuter the scene ("minor audio alterations" my ass), but they're just saying it's the one scene. No word on future plans for her, but I think as long as Derpy doesn't talk anymore, they'll leave her alone.
  • BHHammyBHHammy Somewhere in Hell Icrontian
    The SaveDerpy tumblr got a letter from Amy Keating Rogers (the writer of the episode) herself, telling the whole story from her end.
    Whew, this controversy has been overwhelming and exhausting!

    I actually had no idea that fans were really upset about the "Derpy Change" until your email. And I didn't actually know about the change until I got an email last week from a fan telling me about it!

    Let me try and put some rumors at rest and calm the fans. And to do that, let's go back to the beginning.

    When I first wrote this episode, the character under such harsh scrutiny was named Ditzy Doo. We had already established in previous episodes that she was clumsy (she is not the pony you want on your moving crew). And we named her Ditzy Doo thinking of her as a being a bit dingy.

    The scene I wrote was originally longer and had a flashback explaining exactly what Ditzy Doo had done to damage Town Hall. She and Rainbow Dash were "Bucking Bolts" out of the clouds during a storm. Ditzy Doo was bucking too close to Ponyville central. Rainbow kept trying to yell over the noisy bucking for Ditzy to move away from town. But Ditzy could not hear her and thought that Rainbow was complimenting her for her great buck bolting. Ditzy then hit Town Hall with a bolt. And, thus, the damage.

    For the second draft, I was asked to change Ditzy's name to Derpy as a "tip of the hat" to the fans. So, not knowing that Derpy meant anything beyond klutzy and clumsy, I did as requested And then I was finished with this episode.

    I had nothing to do with the original voice casting. In my mind, she was ditzy, as her original name implied. But that's not anything I was ever involved with MLP. The scene was made shorter because the script was too long and because the story wasn't about Ditzy/Derpy. It was about Applejack.

    When this episode first aired, I did not see it until after I started getting emails either thanking me or berating me for Derpy's portrayal. The angry emails really freaked me out because I knew that I had not written a scene that could possibly be interpreted as being insensitive to people with disabilities.

    So, when I got home, I watched the episode. I saw that the scene was shorter, which did not surprise me. That happens all the time. I listened to her voice and it was deeper than I expected. However, I was not offended by any part of the scene in any way.

    But I got about 10 emails saying how offended folks were. People labeled me an "ableist" (a word I'd never heard of) and said that I was being insensitive to the disabled by calling this character "derpy." I then did a search on what derpy meant and the first things that came up were "embarrassing" and "awkward" which is what I thought. But then when I did more in-depth searches, I discovered that one definition is "retarded."

    Now, you have to realize that reading that made my heart sink. My son Soren (of Soarin' fame) is severely disabled. We do not use the word "retarded" in our house because it really has become an offensive slur. And while I knew that it was only a minority of people that defined "derpy" this way, it still upset me that I was the writer that put that name out there. It was painfully ironic and goes against the fact that I'm an advocate for the disabled.

    I also want to note here that while I got 10 negative emails, I also got about 200 positive ones! I knew that the majority of fans were not offended. I got emails from fans with siblings with disabilities and parents of kids with disabilities and fans who had disabilities themselves and none of them were offended. At first, I tried to answer all these emails, but then I just became too overwhelmed. Still, I want to thank you all for your support!

    But I was not the only one getting contacted regarding Derpy's portrayal. Positive and negative feedback was also being sent to Hasbro and the Hub. Someone at the Hub who knows about my personal connection with disabilities contacted me asking my opinion. We talked about various options of what to do.

    1. Do nothing.
    2. Cut Rainbow saying "Derpy" but keep Derpy's voice.
    3. Cut Rainbow saying "Derpy" and change Derpy's voice.
    4. Find a creative way to change Derpy's name in a future episode

    And I was honestly torn about which action should be taken. I went back and forth and back again. It was a no win situation. Fans were going to be offended no matter what. And while I was not personally offended by the scene, I tried to put myself in the shoes of someone that was. I know that if I was offended by something that I thought was disparaging against the disabled, I would want my voice heard. But then I also knew that an insensitive portrayal of someone with disabilities was never our intention, so why change it?
    When that call ended, no decision was made. And it was not my decision to make. I am just a freelance writer here, not a network executive. That decision was up to Hasbro and the Hub. I am sure they weighed what was best for the MLP brand, the show, the network, and they may have even weighed in my personal situation. Maybe they wanted to spare me from getting anymore more hate mail and people calling me offensive names. It may have been only 10 emails, but each one made me feel absolutely horrible If the effect on me was part of their motivation for the change, I think that's really amazing, incredibly sensitive, and very commendable.

    In the end, Derpy's voice was re-voiced to be more ditzy. And while, again, I had nothing to do with the casting, this is closer to the voice that was in my head. And as for cutting her name, if it truly can be defined as "retarded," then I am personally glad that name is gone. I wouldn't want my writing to perpetuate children--our target audience--to call other children "derpy" with that meaning behind it.

    So, I know the fans are upset. But please don't be upset at Hasbro or the Hub or DHX Media or the "Anti-Derpy" fans or me. Let's remember what the message of MLP:FiM is--tolerance, kindness, understanding, and, most importantly, friendship.

    All my best,

    Amy
    There you have it, folks. Grumbling at Yamino is still completely justified, I think, but honestly I guess I can understand Amy's position.

    Interesting bit of information that comes from this- they actually WERE going to go with Ditzy Doo initially. And...to be completely honest, I'm completely ok with that. It's still a name we commonly used besides Derpy, just slightly less at the forefront.

    Now that the whole thing's been cleared up, I honestly feel a lot better. Kind of bleh on how this whole thing ended up, but it doesn't look like they're killing off Derpy, or requiring that her eyes be underped from now on (which if you note in the scene that's been edited, they actually DIDN'T underp them -all- the way, just mostly. It's very subtle.)
  • BHHammyBHHammy Somewhere in Hell Icrontian
    Following that somewhat positive note with an EXTREMELY positive note...

    image

    YES. YEEEESSSSS.
    This is EXACTLY what I hoped would happen.

    I really want bronies to watch this show so bad. And now I have the perfect vehicle.
  • JBoogalooJBoogaloo This too shall pass... Alexandria, VA Icrontian
    Following that somewhat positive note with an EXTREMELY positive note...

    image

    YES. YEEEESSSSS.
    This is EXACTLY what I hoped would happen.

    I really want bronies to watch this show so bad. And now I have the perfect vehicle.
    AAAAAAAAAAAAAnd there is my reason to start watching this religiously! How could I NOT be into this when The Aquabats (one of the top 10 bands I really enjoy) may be involved in it too? A.W.E.S.O.M.E!

  • BHHammyBHHammy Somewhere in Hell Icrontian
    edited Mar 2012
    The Aquabats Super Show is AWESOME. The Basil stream is gonna be showing it every week. Trying to find a way to secure a download of the episode, but I haven't been having much luck.

    As for today's episode...well...
    I had a feeling she was going to show up again sometime very soon.


    ...alright, actually, the episode was pretty good. Merriwether's flanderization is definately present, but it works to the episode's advantage (mostly).

    And Iron Will is AWESOME.

    She was a co-writer, though. Charlotte Fullerton also wrote the episode. Which means the writers for both "May The Best Pet Win" and "Mysterious Mare Do Well" were working together on this one.

    Thank goodness Rainbow Dash was completely absent from this one, or we would have had a full-blown fire on our hands on the subject of Rainbow Dash. Again.

    EDIT: FOUND IT.
  • RahnalH102RahnalH102 the Green Devout, Veteran Monster Hunter, Creature Enthusiast New Mexico Icrontian
    edited Mar 2012
    I'm still laughing at all the comments.

    [spoiler] Mix of people wanting beat the !@#$ out of Angel or quoting "A Pimp Named Slickback." "Let us pray the Pimp's Prayer" and "Kill the Wabbit" for example.

    OH just found this one: "FiM teaches girls to be assertive so they don't get pimp slapped by people named Angel." [/spoiler]
  • BHHammyBHHammy Somewhere in Hell Icrontian
    edited Mar 2012
    I'm still laughing at all the comments.

    [spoiler] Mix of people wanting beat the !@#$ out of Angel or quoting "A Pimp Named Slickback." "Let us pray the Pimp's Prayer" and "Kill the Wabbit" for example.

    OH just found this one: "FiM teaches girls to be assertive so they don't get pimp slapped by people named Angel." [/spoiler]
    Gonna be completely honest- that cold open was honestly a bit hard to watch because of that. Won't spoil anything, but for for certain folks, that could almost be straying into "trigger" territory. Merriwether doesn't pussyfoot around when characters are supposed to be rough or rude- it's full-tilt or nothing.

    I really hope she doesn't get many episodes in S3, honestly. Her episodes tend to be on shaky ground with a show like this, and she does a lot of character Flanderization for her writing. She's also a bit TOO good at making the characters look like dicks. Both intentionally and otherwise. (FYI Lynx- you're going to LOVE this episode. I just know it.)

    Again, not saying this episode is bad- it's actually pretty decent- but it does feel a little off.
  • RahnalH102RahnalH102 the Green Devout, Veteran Monster Hunter, Creature Enthusiast New Mexico Icrontian
    I do think you dig a bit deep into all this Hammy. Just saying. That in itself can ruin the show sometimes. So do be careful.

    [spoiler] Plus pretty much everyone agrees that Angel was a prick just from Season 1. No doubt he's a spoiled brat and acts like it in this one. [/spoiler]
  • BHHammyBHHammy Somewhere in Hell Icrontian
    edited Mar 2012
    Rewatched the ep with Shannon. Usually rewatching the episode if I'm kinda "eh" on it helps me get a fresh perspective on it and I enjoy it better.

    This time it kind of went in the opposite direction.

    [spoiler]Honestly, it does get kind of hard for me to watch until they get to the part where Iron Will shows up. It just seems to...drag. Watching folks be dicks to someone like Fluttershy for no good reason/trying to rip her off isn't really entertaining to me. And honestly, Rarity doing...that thing she did kinda puts me off. I mean, someone like Spike...ok, that's someone she has a personal connection with (and she was legitimately grateful for it too, actually kind of becoming a bit of a Chekov's Gun later on). But this is some random nerd she's -leading on- in the middle of the street. It's something that just rubs me the wrong way.

    Iron Will is actually fun as hell to watch. The guy who does the voice I do believe does the voice of Hercule/Mr. Satan from DBZ, and he takes the hamminess up to 11 so much that you can't take what he does seriously at all. He's kind of like a better version of Trixie, without the magic. Plus he's probably the first travelling sales/spokesperson to pop into Ponyville that actually -isn't- dishonest (it's not meant to be a scam- he actually DOES believe in the techniques he teaches, and even though he tries to bargain with Fluttershy at the end, he holds up his guarantee after she stands up for it). To be completely fair, while he is -technically- an antagonist, he doesn't seem like a villain at all, really.

    Kinda says something about how this episode went when your antagonist seems like one of the -least- dickish characters in this episode. Ponies were just downright nasty this ep.

    Most everything after Iron Will shows up is gold (except for the crying ponies). It's just that the first 8 to 10 minutes of the episode that it takes to get to that part feels like it takes -forever-, and it really drags it down.[/spoiler]

    For the record, I don't hate this episode- certainly doesn't make the "5 Least Favorites" list. It's certainly not MMDW by a long shot, or even Call of the Cutie (TIARAAAAAAAAA~!). I guess I'd probably place it somewhere around "Look Before You Sleep".

    At any rate though, The Aquabats Super Show more than made up for any sort of deficit. We seriously need to put it on our next stream. It's everything you can hope for from the Aquabats, and more.
  • BHHammyBHHammy Somewhere in Hell Icrontian
    edited Mar 2012
    Alright, so a slightly better topic, this showed up on EqD today.

    Apparently someone came up with some concept stuff for LEGO ponies. These are 3D rendered models, but the concept still stands, and...actually, what they're illustrating here is pretty damn amazing. Check it out.

    image
    image

    Here's the REALLY cool part though. Check out this breakdown of the parts-

    image

    Theoretically, LEGO would be able to make it so you could mix and match manes and either wings/horns whatever to make your own custom ponies.

    Personally, I'd probably be REALLY tempted to buy these if they ever made them.

    Have some copy-paste from the page here.
    The main idea, is to create pony shaped minifigures (or in this case miniponies), which could be used to populate other lego built buildings from Lauren Faust's brilliant TV Show: My little pony - Friendship is magic.

    The buildings coupld include: Sugarcube corner, Twilight's treehouse, Apple family barn and so much more!

    The ponies would be cusomizable with wings or different hairpieces. The unicorn horn would be part of the hairpiece.

    For the headpiece, hair and tail of the 3d model, I used Karol Pawlinski 's downloadable 3D pony library.

    Link here: http://browse.deviantart.com/?qh=&section=&global=1&q=3d+pony#/d3k5wig

    Thank you for watching this, Support if you like it :)
    EDIT: Looking through some comments others have made, it seems unlikely LEGO would be able to make this, though. Apparently Hasbro's been trying to push their own line of building blocks called Kre-o. So it seems unlikely that Hasbro would let them have the rights.
  • UPSLynxUPSLynx Top EA shill, The Dean of Computer Graphics Redwood City, CA Icrontian
    edited Mar 2012
    Had a busy weekend, so I haven't had a chance to get my thoughts in on the new episode. I'll keep it brief.

    It's awesome. I love it. (inb4 BHHammy predicts... crap, never mind)

    Visually, this is one of the more impressive episodes. There is an AMAZING focus pull from Fluttershy in the foreground to her door. Very well done, considering this show is Flash animated. There were other various bits that impressed me visually, but that was the one shot that stood out.

    Also, dem goats, man. Hilarious looking.

    Merriwether doesn't bother me, and I thought this episode proved that she's gotten better handling the characters. Not perfect, but better. She does tend to push emotions to the limit, but I don't have a problem with that. Opening scene didn't bug me at all.

    [spoiler]What did get me, and I mean this in the best possible way, is the scene where Fluttershy makes Rarity and Pinky CRY by demeaning their abilities/jobs. That scene made me hurt. I felt sad for both of them. That was a slap to the face, and really punched the emotional apex of the episode. Great breaking point for the story. [/spoiler]

    You want an emotional impact? You need to hit the viewers hard. Tip-toeing around emotion for the sake of a simple show doesn't get it done. I like to be moved by simple shows to the degrees that films impact me, and that's why I loved seeing her push Fluttershy to levels like that.

    Finally, Pinkie/Rarity make the best duo. They crack me up whenever they share screen time. They contrast each other wonderfully.
  • RahnalH102RahnalH102 the Green Devout, Veteran Monster Hunter, Creature Enthusiast New Mexico Icrontian
    There is an AMAZING focus pull from Fluttershy in the foreground to her door. Very well done, considering this show is Flash animated.
    When I saw that I thought they had done a 3D Model bit, it was done so well.
  • BHHammyBHHammy Somewhere in Hell Icrontian
    "Hitting the viewers hard" doesn't mean "turn everyone into an asshole".

    Seriously, we went last week from the town being "Smile Smile Smile" to this week's "Everyone is a douchebag".

    [spoiler]This sort of circumstantial throwaway environment thing seems to be something Merriwether seems to do. In Mare Do Well, the whole town suddenly and conveniently becomes accident-prone enough that they -need- a superhero of sorts (and not for the -proper- reason that Ponyville apparently tends to get trashed all the time). In this one, suddenly either the whole town is full of dickwads (seriously, even her GARDENER), or somehow every douchebag in the city's come out to play.

    And if you REALLY want to get into it, it probably wouldn't have been so bad with a scenery change. We've already seen that a place like Manehattan, or to more of an extent, Canterlot, can be full of dicks. Here, it's just like someone flipped Ponyville's bipolar switch from "Happy" to "Bitch". It's very jarring.

    I will still admit that it's not nearly as bad as MMDW as far as character handling goes, though. At least the ponies are behaving like they're meant to (though Rarity leading on the nerdy stranger pony just to get the asparagus from him was really hard to watch). And, again, Iron Will is a great character.[/spoiler]
  • RahnalH102RahnalH102 the Green Devout, Veteran Monster Hunter, Creature Enthusiast New Mexico Icrontian
    edited Mar 2012
    Ya know, I want to say something here, but I just don't think I can. I've tried (scrapped 3 different drafts now) and I just can't so I am just gonna drop it. Not even sure why I'm leaving this here.



    P.S. When is it safe to end the "spoiler" bits? 2day? 3day? Stream?

    [spoiler] Every time they say "monster" and referring to Iron Will, I get a twitch. Twitchy twitch-a twitch!

    Also, does this episode hold the record for most references? I haven't counted em but I can name a few and there were a bunch I didn't know. The Hulk one for example.[/spoiler]
  • IlriyasIlriyas The Syrupy Canadian Toronto, Ontario Icrontian
    edited Mar 2012
    Something horrible has happened!

    PINKIE SPARROW IS GONE

    LonelyIslandisdicks.jpg
  • colacola part legend, part devil... all man Balls deep Icrontian
    Either I derped and couldn't find the fanfic thread, or we don't have one and I'm just crazy. Whatever the case, this one's about Trixie falling for a pinecone, enjoy.

    http://www.equestriadaily.com/2012/03/story-great-and-powerful-trixie-falls.html
  • BHHammyBHHammy Somewhere in Hell Icrontian
    Either I derped and couldn't find the fanfic thread, or we don't have one and I'm just crazy. Whatever the case, this one's about Trixie falling for a pinecone, enjoy.

    http://www.equestriadaily.com/2012/03/story-great-and-powerful-trixie-falls.html
    We don't have one, do we? I guess most folks assume that Icrontic members really wouldn't be up for reading fanfiction.
  • RahnalH102RahnalH102 the Green Devout, Veteran Monster Hunter, Creature Enthusiast New Mexico Icrontian
    Something horrible has happened!

    PINKIE SPARROW IS GONE

    LonelyIslandisdicks.jpg

    ლ(ಠ益ಠლ)

  • IlriyasIlriyas The Syrupy Canadian Toronto, Ontario Icrontian
    I KNOW ITS TERRIBLE! My brother (Not a Brony) wanted to see it too! I was so close.
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