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pigflipper
Shot Master
pigflipper
772 Posts

Recommendations on new build

Ok, the time has come in the next 30-60 days to rebuild the core of my gaming rig: cpu, motherboard, ram, video and psu.

My budget is ~$700 (though I could probably swing another $100 if needed). I do not need: harddrives, cd/dvd drive, keyboard, mouse, or monitor.

I am really quite lost about the current generation of hardware; this build originally dates to 2004 with some of the RAM coming from an xp2500 build. After a partial rebuild in 2006, I stopped paying attention to the hardware world. Also, I do not care about overclocking anymore, doesn't interest me like it used to back in the day.

Right now I am looking at the Phenom X4 as a possible CPU and the new HD5000 series for video.

Current Build:

XP4200 X2
Asus nforce4 SLI mobo
1gig OCZ DDR400 (other gig died on me suddenly, system won't even boot with it in)
2x7900GT in SLI
550w Antec PSU
pigflipper
Shot Master
pigflipper
772 Posts
Current build if I were to order tomorrow:

AMD Phenom II X4 945 Deneb 3.0GHz $160
DFI LANParty DK 790FXB-M3H5 AM3 AMD 790FX ATX $140
OCZ Obsidian 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800) $84
SAPPHIRE 100282SR Radeon HD 5850 1GB 256-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready CrossFire Supported $260

Total Cost before shipping (if any): $644

I really need this below $600 if possible, apparently I was off the mark with the $700 budget. What could be changed out to drop the price? I already, after checking the actual unit, a recent OCZ 700w PSU and going to keep this case I have for the time being (Lian-Li PC1000).
Thrax
Cad
Thrax
23,425 Posts
The only place to cut is the GPU, because you can't cut the rest of the parts without dipping into products of questionable quality.
__________________ Robert Hallock
Technical Analyst
Twitter | LinkedIn


CPU: Core 2 Duo E6420 @ 3.5GHz (500*7)
MoBo: DFI LanParty DK P35-T2R/S
RAM: 4GB G.SKILL PC8500
VID: NVIDIA GeForce GTX 275
HSF: Thermalright Ultra-120

Obsidian
Way hotter than Fox n' Bush.
Obsidian
271 Posts
What's the maximum resolution supported by your monitor?
pigflipper
Shot Master
pigflipper
772 Posts
Yeah, but dropping from 1440 stream processing units to 800 on the HD5770 seems like a pretty big drop. Sigh, guess I will just tough out the lack of money by reducing my food budget for two months.
pigflipper
Shot Master
pigflipper
772 Posts
What's the maximum resolution supported by your monitor?
1600x1200, but I run @ 1280x1024 for most things. The monitor is a ViewSonic G90f.
Obsidian
Way hotter than Fox n' Bush.
Obsidian
271 Posts
1600x1200, but I run @ 1280x1024 for most things. The monitor is a ViewSonic G90f.
There's no point in getting a 5850 for those resolutions. A 5770 will be plenty powerful enough for you.
mas0n
technosexual
mas0n
1,486 Posts

» Subscriber

Keep the 5850 and get a good panel when you can afford it. I think I saw you say in IRC that you're dropping down to an X3. Are you within budget now?
__________________ Q6600 G0 425x9 1.42v | 8GB 1:1 4-4-4-12 | HD5850 1035/1200 1.3v
DFI LP DK X38-T2RB | PCP&C 610W | 2x300GB VRaptors on 3Ware 9650SE

LaLa | Facebook | Steam | Twitter | Support the IC TF2 Server
Obsidian
Way hotter than Fox n' Bush.
Obsidian
271 Posts
You could probably save some money by going with a cheaper motherboard.
Cliff_Forster
Keepin it real
Cliff_Forster
863 Posts
I have a Phenom II 720 and a Radeon 4870 1 gb laying around doing nothing that I would sell you reasonably if you are interested. Very lightly used, still in warranty so on so forth.

PM me if your interested.
Thrax
Cad
Thrax
23,425 Posts
Problem solved: He's going Phenom II X3 and 5850, because he's getting a 1920x LCD down the road. This combo is the best balance between short and long-term performance.
mirage
Veteran Icrontian
mirage
1,026 Posts
I would not go with an X3 and stick with X4. You may not feel the difference with the current games but in the next generation of games (you seem to keep the computer 3-4 years) and definitely with media encoding today, you will feel the difference.

Since you will be targeting 30-60 days purchase window, you can still stay in the $600 budget if you order the parts as you catch deals on the internet. Also, it will help with catching those deals if you have alternative brands for memory, motherboard, and graphics card in mind. For example you can keep GIGABYTE GA-MA790XT-UD4P as an alternative to your current board. It already saves you $40. You can check Powercolor, ASUS, etc brands for GPU, and Corsair, Gskill, A-Data, etc brands for RAM. Again, I would not go with anything less than X4.
Thrax
Cad
Thrax
23,425 Posts
They've been saying that quad core would kill dual core in gaming for about 4 years now. It still hasn't happened yet, and that's because there aren't enough threads in a game to occupy 4 CPU cores. Unless the science of programming undergoes a radical transformation in the next 3 years (how likely is that?), then the X3 is a better choice to preserve his GPU.
mirage
Veteran Icrontian
mirage
1,026 Posts
I don't think this is a technical issue, it is more related to economics and availability. The incentives to develop games that employ more than two cores are growing. Just a couple of weeks ago, AMD released quad-cores at a price less than $100. It will happen, Thrax. Hopefully before 12.21.12
Thrax
Cad
Thrax
23,425 Posts
No, it really isn't a matter of economics. There are only four threads a game can spawn: Physics, AI, sound and graphics. Sound, AI and physics fit on a single core--splitting them up would not improve game performance.

The last one, graphics, is a linear thread which cannot readily be dispatched to idle cores: The whole chunk goes, or none of it goes. It cannot be split and reassembled at the end. This is why CPU makers and GPU makers alike are diving into fine-grained threading to pull the precious few threads that can be parallelized onto other cores or stream processors. These efforts are being met with limited success.

Combine the technological limitations of code execution with a collegiate computer science environment which does not readily teach multi-threading best practices, and the whole industry isn't moving towards quad core all that quickly.
Cliff_Forster
Keepin it real
Cliff_Forster
863 Posts
I agree with Robert. I think if budget is a limiting factor, you balance the system build to be GPU heavy if your any kind of PC gamer. I supose the one potential arguement against that would be if you wanted to buy enough GPU to satisfy your demands on a single unit then crossfire a 2nd in when the budget allows six months or a year latter. I would make a few things for certain, without a doubt I would have at least two full fuctioning PCIE 2.0 slots on any motherboard I select. I would just want the option to add the 2nd GPU at full bandwidth if I desired at some point down the road. If I'm gaming in 1080P I'm at least going to consider GPU's that leverage either GDDR 5 memory, or GDDR 3 at 256 bit or higher. I would upgrade to a 64 bit Windows 7 install. I would buy at least four gigs or reasonably fast ram, allthough on a budget I would not obsess too much over the RAM specs, all DDR3 is reasonably fast if your not concerned about overclocking headroom so I could let budget dictate there. On the CPU, I would be value minded but at least consider a really aggresively clocked dual core, preferably look at an unlocked tripple, or if you can squeeze it in, a budget minded quad is not a bad option. Keep in mind on current dual threaded games you may actualy get more from a tripple unlocked that you can easily clock to 3.5 per core with a small voltage bump than a value quad that you are sitting at 2.7-2.9 per core on.
mirage
Veteran Icrontian
mirage
1,026 Posts
At the link I gave above, it is only the share of X4 that grows against X1, X2 and X3, specifically 6.91% in the last 11 months. Programming is as much of an art as science. I am sure they will find their way around (if it becomes a priority and it looks like that). PS3 and XBOX360 are the most important indications that gaming industry is going towards massive multithreading.

Tips For Multithreaded, Multicore Game Development, from AMD. Especially check the topics on Granularity.
http://developer.amd.com/documentati...222007121.aspx
http://developer.amd.com/documentati...522007168.aspx
pigflipper
Shot Master
pigflipper
772 Posts
I am getting the 720 Black Edition expressly for the purpose of overclocking down the road. Also, I am not going to sacrifice the motherboard, because, well, cliff agrees with me on something...for once.
Thrax
Cad
Thrax
23,425 Posts
Great choice.
Cliff_Forster
Keepin it real
Cliff_Forster
863 Posts
OMG someone agrees with me, this is the 7th sign of the appocolypse, not 2012!!
Zuntar
Modder extraordinaire
Zuntar
3,308 Posts
I love that 3 months ago I was asking for help picking out parts and everyone but you was like "Intel has superior architecture, you suck if you go AMD, here buy this atom"

I bought a 720 and couldn't be happier.
__________________ John 3:16 ... nuff said

Main Rig
CPU- Athlon 5600+ X2 Motherboard-EVGA 590 SLI HSF- Zalman CNPS9500
RAM- Corsair Twin2X4096-6400C4DHX Graphics- EVGA 8800GTS 640MB Sound- Creative X-FI Xtreme music
HDD 1- WD 150Gb Raptor HDD 2 WD 640Gb HDD 3-4 WD 250Gb OS- Win XP Pro
Power Supply- Aerocool 620W Zerodba Modular Case- Custom Large Style Cube, completely modded

Home Server
CPU- Athlon 4850e X2 Motherboard-Gigabyte GA-MA78GM-S2H RAM- OCZ Titanium 2x1Gb
OS HDDs- 2X Seagate 250Gb in RAID 1 Storage HDDs- 2X WD 1Tb Green OS- Windows Home Server Sp3Beta
Thrax
Cad
Thrax
23,425 Posts
With a $600 price envelope, AMD is the only choice.

* Thrax shrugs.


Brand suggestions should not be about preference. It should be about facts, budget, and usage.
Zuntar
Modder extraordinaire
Zuntar
3,308 Posts
With a $600 price envelope, AMD is the only choice.

* Thrax shrugs.

Brand suggestions should not be about preference. It should be about facts, budget, and usage.
My point exactly. My budget was 300.
ardichoke
King Banana Spanner
ardichoke
1,090 Posts
Thrax, you're oversimplifying the amount of threads a game can spawn. For instance, the AI alone could spawn hundreds of threads all running concurrently if the programmers built an AI to do that. In theory, they could make a complex AI where each enemy on the current map has it's own thread which makes decisions only for that particular character. There are ways that game designers can utilize 4, 6, 12 cores and beyond, it's just a matter of such systems becoming widespread enough for them to be able to sell games that spawn that many threads.

Otherwise though, I'd agree, you'll be fine running an X3. I do second the Gigabyte board suggestion though. I'm so in love with the Gigabyte UltraDurable boards, it's almost sickening.
__________________ Money can't buy happiness, but it can buy marshmallows which are pretty much the same thing.

pigflipper
Shot Master
pigflipper
772 Posts
Shipping tomorrow (10/29):

Phenom II X3 720 Black Edition
DFI LANParty DK 790FXB-M3H5 motherboard
OCZ Gold AMD Edition 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800)

Having trouble, like most people, finding an HD5850 for sale. I have three of them listed for auto-notify from Newegg, so hopefully sometime in the next week I can get one ordered.
pigflipper
Shot Master
pigflipper
772 Posts
Well, the system is up and running. I am having a few problems getting the ram to run above 1066, but I think that has to do with the timings and it is far too late for me to be screwing around with that. Also, DFI has yet to release their tools and most drivers for Win7. Kind of annoying.

Haven't gotten a HD5850 yet, buggers are hard as hell to find. This is a major step up, even running the 7900GT instead of the HD5850 that I want, badly.
Thrax
Cad
Thrax
23,425 Posts
The only driver you need to install for your system is the GPU.
pigflipper
Shot Master
pigflipper
772 Posts
yeah, finally figured that out. The bios flash util and system monitoring util that DFI includes would be nice, if they worked in Win7.

Also, stable now with one 2gig stick @ 8-8-8-24 1.65v 1333mhz. Going to drop the other stick back in next reboot.
Cliff_Forster
Keepin it real
Cliff_Forster
863 Posts
yeah, finally figured that out. The bios flash util and system monitoring util that DFI includes would be nice, if they worked in Win7.

Also, stable now with one 2gig stick @ 8-8-8-24 1.65v 1333mhz. Going to drop the other stick back in next reboot.
To effectively flash a DFI board you need a USB thumb drive and you need to format it with a utility listed on the DFI site, load the files, and set it to boot from USB. Its significantly more trouble than running a utility in windows but it gets the job done.

In my limited experience with DFI boards I would say they are not very user friendly, but they easily have the most tweakable BIOS I have ever seen.
RyderOCZ
OCZ Guru / IC Groupie
RyderOCZ
2,569 Posts

» Subscriber

IMO, you should never flash a bios in Windows, I wish they never came out with that

I always flash every board in DOS.
Thrax
Cad
Thrax
23,425 Posts
I absolutely agree with Eric. Windows flashing is dangerous shit.
pigflipper
Shot Master
pigflipper
772 Posts
Yeah, I just found my USB flashdrive, so BIOS will be updated using that, but the system monitoring tool would be very nice to have.
Thrax
Cad
Thrax
23,425 Posts
The only tools you really need are CoreTemp and CPUZ.
Cliff_Forster
Keepin it real
Cliff_Forster
863 Posts
I absolutely agree with Eric. Windows flashing is dangerous shit.
Unless its a Gigabyte board with two physical BIOS chips. Dual BIOS ftw.
pigflipper
Shot Master
pigflipper
772 Posts
The only tools you really need are CoreTemp and CPUZ.
Shows you how out of the loop I am that I don't recognize either of those.
Vicar
Heaven Is Beautiful
Vicar
126 Posts
How is the hunt for the HD5850 going?
lordbean
King of Spray'n'Pray
lordbean
889 Posts

» Subscriber

Persistence and apparently lack of self-control seem to really help when trying to get HD5000 cards. I already have one in my computer, and I have an order for a second one placed that the store estimates they can likely fill this week.

Crossfired 5000 series glory, here I come.
__________________ "You wanna know what the problem is? The problem is it ain't starting."

Rig: Intel C2Q9450@3.54GHz, 8GB OCZ Platinum Lo-Volt, Gigabyte GA-EP45-UD3P, 2x HD5850 @ 930/1275 + 875/1175, 2x Seagate 1TB HD, 3x WD 640GB HD
ardichoke
King Banana Spanner
ardichoke
1,090 Posts
Hmm... odd... I've flashed many a Dell from windows and never had a problem with any of them. I've also flashed all 3 GigaByte boards I've had in the past from Windows multiple times (one of them was an actual DualBIOS board, the other two are the newer sorta-DualBIOS boards) and never had a single problem with any of them.
mirage
Veteran Icrontian
mirage
1,026 Posts
The only tools you really need are CoreTemp and CPUZ.
Right, I would only add GPU-Z to that.
pigflipper
Shot Master
pigflipper
772 Posts
Problem found: one stick of ram is bad. By the time I hit test #4 in memtest, that stick had thrown 24 errors. Great.

Also, due to the design of my case, I had to flip it over (yes, my case is now resting on its "top") to get my motherboard right side up to get full effect from the heatpipes on the NB.
lordbean
King of Spray'n'Pray
lordbean
889 Posts

» Subscriber

That sounds like an awesome design.

Take some pics with a digital camera, I wanna see it in all its glory.
pigflipper
Shot Master
pigflipper
772 Posts
It was an awesome design, 4-5 years ago, but with today's systems, I don't think it works as well.

Lian-Li PC1000 if you want to look it up.
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