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Miller01
Getting settled in
Miller01
6 Posts
22 Oct 2006, 6:31pm

Re: SM Review: Samsung SyncMaster 225BW LCD

lemonlime! That advise u just gave JohnP is not a very good one!

I bought a 215TW a month ago and had it swapped for a new one 3 times.
It has a problem wich the two largest screens samsung makes, also have. The response time may be 8ms, but the screen does not react to movement at once.

If you are playing a game, you'll get pissed by this problem. Ive returned the Screen after having it exchanged 3 times! I finally went to the store and asked them to get my money back.

As I was there getting my money back, I asked the guy in the store to move the mouse pointer on all the screens that they had as DEMO:s (They were all serial connected). The 225BW and A LOT of others Samsung screens were also connected, including the both 24" screens 242MP and 244T.......

They did not have the 215TW connected, but ive been testing 3 of those so ive alredy got to the conclusion that ALL THE 215TW SCREENS show the picture delayed.

Anyway... All the screens were okay (including 225BW) EXCEPT the two big 24" screens!!!

I'm sitting with the 215TW right now, it's the one i have to send back to samsung tomorrow, and its the third one i got exchanged.

I told Samsung about this problem but they just kept sending me new ones and asked me to send back the old one. Since they all were the same, and i lost 1.5 months on that purchase I just went and returned it.

The 215TW may be good on the paper and deliver some good qualities, but delayed moitions is NOT ACCEPTABLE!!

I am warning YOU about this TFT-screen. If you want proof i can show you all some videos i recorded. I connected both my "old" 19" BenQ 8ms screen and the 215 BW, to compare. I Cloned the picture and testet a few things. I also put a Iexplorer screen betwen them both and moved it and its very clear how bad this problem really is!

E-mail me and I'll send you a short video.

Tomorrow im sending THIS 215TW BACK to samsung and Buying a 225BW (wich ive seen WORKS) at the same store, instead =)
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Miller01
Getting settled in
Miller01
6 Posts
22 Oct 2006, 10:04pm

Re: SM Review: Samsung SyncMaster 225BW LCD

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wC4gCre1xrA

Here is one of the videos!
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Miller01
Getting settled in
Miller01
6 Posts
22 Oct 2006, 10:16pm

Re: SM Review: Samsung SyncMaster 225BW LCD

here is the other one!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TVqdrz73dGU
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Thrax
Cat Whisperer
Thrax
25,154 Posts
22 Oct 2006, 10:32pm

Re: SM Review: Samsung SyncMaster 225BW LCD

I have no issues with 215TW. It's the best display I've ever owned, and I've owned some of the finest over the years.
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Miller01
Getting settled in
Miller01
6 Posts
23 Oct 2006, 7:39am

Red face Re: SM Review: Samsung SyncMaster 225BW LCD

Have you tested it against ANY other display?

If there is anything wrong with it, it shows... believe me.
A guy in a swedish forum just tested his with the same results.

Dont be ignorant... Test it against any other TFT screen and see if you get the same results.

And if you can't notice the fault that it has... then you probably wont suffer from it.

Here is some MORE proof that it IS something wrong with this display:

http://www.unionen.se/pub/picture/PICT0525.JPG
http://www.unionen.se/pub/picture/PICT0526.JPG
http://www.unionen.se/pub/picture/PICT0524.JPG



And people; I just want to say:

Don't take this "warning" the wrong way!
Im a very big fan of TFT displays... And i'm not trying trying to proof that TFT screens would be bad or a wierd thing like that.

First of, this is the 3rd TFT display i've ownd... heheh. And thats since i got my first one in less than 2 years ago. I love the TFT screens, and i dont care much about the ghosting (wich is almost ZERO problem with the TFT:s these days) .

And second, the tests doesn't show gosting. It's showing that the picture that the 215TW shows is DELAYED.

Im telling you again: Dont take this the wrong way! I love Samsung displays! I had a Samsung 910T that my girlfriends father bought right before i got the 215TW.
215TW holds a very high standard, except this HUGE thing that is wrong with it.

Im not trying to bring anyone down... Just WARN anyone who is thinking about buying a screen that is NOT PROPERLY TESTED!!
Because its NOT properly tested. No one of the big "testers" have found this problem. I saw it the second i first moved the mouse pointer... im supprised that this problem has'nt been recognized since i started shouting about it.

And you should KNOW that the guy in the store, and I, could also see that there was something with the two 22" screens that wasn't right either.

Peace...
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Miller01 edited : 23 Oct 2006 at 7:58am .
Thrax
Cat Whisperer
Thrax
25,154 Posts
23 Oct 2006, 12:42pm

Re: SM Review: Samsung SyncMaster 225BW LCD

When I move the mouse, there's no perceptible delay. Believe me, I was a big hater of LCDs for a long time for all sorts of issues.. Anyone at S-M that's been around a while can tell you that. But this has been a great monitor. No matter how hard I've tried, I can't find a fault.
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Miller01
Getting settled in
Miller01
6 Posts
23 Oct 2006, 12:58pm

Re: SM Review: Samsung SyncMaster 225BW LCD

But it HAS a delay... Its confirmed...

http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1026393


Its called input lag... And its a fact.
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Miller01 edited : 23 Oct 2006 at 2:11pm .
lemonlime
Veteran Icrontian
lemonlime
2,728 Posts
26 Oct 2006, 10:28pm
Hi Miller01,

Thank you for your feedback. From my understanding of input delay, this appears to be a fundamental behavior in all LCD monitors to some extent. I'm not referring to ghosting but input delay caused by processing (DSP etc) in the panel. There is an excellent writeup on the subject over at behardware: http://www.behardware.com/articles/6...-crts-yes.html

From my 1 month evaluation period with the 215TW, I have not been able to notice any noticable input lag. I get responsive, predictable and smooth mouse movement, and response in fast-paced FPS gaming is instantaneous as far as I can tell. I have no doubt that there is some delay present, but I would never consider it to be a problem based on my subjective observations. If I get a chance I may compare it to my NEC Multisync CRT.

Not every person has the same tolerance to these types of delays, so although I may not notice it, that does not mean that it is non-existant. I do appreciate you bringing it up as it is important for potential buyers to consider.
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Skie
New to the neighborhood
Skie
3 Posts
10 Nov 2006, 6:33pm
Hello.
Thrax: If you have the possibility to, could you hook up a CRT next to the 215TW and clone the view on it, then run a digital clock on the monitors?

I got my 215TW yesterday, an exchange one because the first one had delay, and this one has delay as well. I can not see how one can't notice the lag, so I want some proof that there are some 215TWs that don't have it.

Here's a photo of mine at its worst:
http://skie.pleasedontsue.com/camera/delay.jpg

That's ~70ms of lag there.
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Thrax
Cat Whisperer
Thrax
25,154 Posts
10 Nov 2006, 9:07pm
Sorry, I don't have a CRT just laying around to test with.

I have no issues with this monitor, and that's good enough for me. Because someone else has a problem doesn't mean I'm going to hop on the bandwagon and complain about something I don't notice and/or isn't even there.
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Skie
New to the neighborhood
Skie
3 Posts
10 Nov 2006, 11:59pm
Well sorry if I implied I wanted you to hop in the bandwagon, Thrax. There's one little thing you could do for me, though. Check the back of your monitor and tell where it has been made and when. I'm trying to find a relation of some sort with those monitors with no lag issues and those that do have such. Might help me and other people get their properly working monitors. Thanks in advance.

The one I have currently is made in Slovakia, Oct 2006. Didn't think of checking it in the first one I had.
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Thrax
Cat Whisperer
Thrax
25,154 Posts
11 Nov 2006, 12:11am
Mexico, may '06.
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hyun1120
New to the neighborhood
hyun1120
1 Posts
5 Dec 2006, 1:25am

Call this problem in to samsung support

Great picture, went from 17 inch flat crt to this, and the difference is huge, as other ppl. superior quality picture, and the pivoting works great.

INPUT LAG(as titled by forum users). This is due to the fact that this monitor panel is a-si TFT/PVA LCD. This panel provides awsome picture quatlity but because it has to do more "work" to produce better quality picture, it comes with a lag in displaying the pictures. BUT samsung added a technology called "MagicSpeed"(same as overdrive) which "SHOULD" compansate for the lag by speeding it up, but apparently it's not doing it's job.

I have talked to couple samsung customer service rep, in which one was tier 2 lvl service rep. He was very helpful in trying to go about figuring out the fix for this.

I have filed an issue regarding this monitor, stating that there is an input lag and that it displays pictures split seconds later then the sound.

He told me that he will turn this issue over to product research department, where they will try to figure out what the problem is, but the problem is, samsung has no idea that this problem exists with this particular model. Apparently nobody called it in (or gave them totally wrong information). Due to the fact that not enough people called it in, it might get pushed aside. So if you have purchased this monitor and you have this problem, do call in, and let them know of this issue. Maybe they'll come up with a fix for it.
Make them aware of this issue!!

1-800-SAMSUNG (726-7864)
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csimon
Pholding Pharaoh
csimon
7,245 Posts
5 Dec 2006, 3:06am
samsung is much clear.
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Skie
New to the neighborhood
Skie
3 Posts
6 Dec 2006, 8:05pm
I actually got Samsung to take the matter further to Samsung's Finland's main office and they replied that the 215TW indeed does have input lag that isn't specified in the tech specs and so I was entitled to a full refund of it.
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Stargun
New to the neighborhood
Stargun
2 Posts
15 Dec 2006, 2:01pm
Hi guys! I purchased a 215TW 3 days ago, and I can also confirm the input lag.

My monitor has 2 dead subpixels in one pixel, so it will be changed tomorrow anyway, and I'll check the input delay of the new monitor as well.

I made an experiment with a digital clock application and taking photos of the 215TW side by side with my old CRT, and the delay varied between 47 ms and 63 ms, but mostly was around 50 ms which is HUGE.

At first I noticed this input delay during any mouse movement on the desktop which was really annoying. In FPS games however (like CS:S) it wasn't disturbing.

I thought after 2 days usage that 50 ms aren't so much, maybe I can live with it, because of the absolutely SUPERB image quality this monitor has.

But today I watched a video with properly synchronized sound (an interview when you can check the speaker's lips according to the speech he makes) and found, that unfortunately this 50 ms delay can render this monitor USELESS for serious video application, because you cannot make correct lipsynch! You can clearly notice that the picture is delayed.

I just called the Samsung hotline here in Hungary and told them about this issue. Interestingly they told me, that I'm the first who has this problem (in this country)...

Does anyone managed to get any written OFFICIAL response from Samsung regarding this issue?
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Stargun edited : 15 Dec 2006 at 2:47pm .
Thrax
Cat Whisperer
Thrax
25,154 Posts
15 Dec 2006, 2:31pm
I'm truly beginning to believe that my monitor doesn't exhibit this sync issue. Sound/lip synch is flawless, and it has to be because I do a lot of video encoding where A/V sync is a big deal. Never had a problem.
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Stargun
New to the neighborhood
Stargun
2 Posts
15 Dec 2006, 2:39pm
That's really interesting. How could that be?

I hope that this is not a generic problem with this monitor, I would really sorry if I should live without it because of this annoying sync issue.

Have you tried the stopwatch measurement to compare it to a TN+film TFT or even a CRT?

PS: My monitor also made in Slovakia, in August, 2006.
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danball1976
Veteran Icrontian
danball1976
2,640 Posts
17 Dec 2006, 4:19am
The problem could exist in varying forms depending on where the panel was manufactured.

For example, Thrax's monitor displays no delay, and is manufactured in Mexico. Stargun, and Skie are manufactured in Slovakia, and has a delay.

Miller01, where was your's manufactured?
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Wolthers
New to the neighborhood
Wolthers
1 Posts
27 May 2007, 9:56am
I also noticed this lag since i got my new monitor and as you, haven't felt like using my computer at all because of it. It's annoying as hell! First, I thought it was because I was using my mouse straight on the table, so I went out and bought a good mousepad but oddly, that didnt seem to be the problem. So i figured it might be something with tft monitors in general since this is my first TFT screen. So I tried googling "tft monitor mouse delay" and the second hit I got was "Input delay on Samsung 215TW - Short-Media Forums ". Sigh.

My monitor was also made in slovakia in january 07.
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Altayr2
New to the neighborhood
Altayr2
3 Posts
28 Nov 2007, 3:02pm
Hi,

I am also unlucky owner of 215TW. My monitor is also made in Slovakia in 2007.

Here is test of my monitor attached.

I have returned it to warranty, and now will wait what they will suggest. Was someone so lucky that 215TW was repaired by Samsung service?
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version Name: crt_8926.jpg Views: 103 Size: 69.5 KB ID: 24372   Click image for larger version Name: sm215tw_lag_8841.jpg Views: 118 Size: 79.5 KB ID: 24373  
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