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SPOILERS HERE - StarWars Episode VIII: The Last Jedi Post Viewing Extravaganza - SPOILERS HERE

AlexDeGruvenAlexDeGruven Not as tall as Bobby Tallbeer. Twilight Sparkle is overrated.Meechigan Icrontian

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  • AlexDeGruvenAlexDeGruven Not as tall as Bobby Tallbeer. Twilight Sparkle is overrated. Meechigan Icrontian

    I'm not actually going to put my thoughts down just yet. Have a few things to sort out which may require an additional viewing

  • GnomeQueenGnomeQueen The Lulz Queen Mountain Dew Mouth Icrontian

    Yea, I am still sorting through all of my thoughts! I think I need to see it like 15 more times.

    Note: I REALLY like the idea of Rey being an absolute nobody, and I hope that's the truth. Of course, the other theory is that she's a Kenobi. I didn't realize that when she picks up the lightsaber in The Force Awakens that she hears Obi-Wan.--

    " If I had to bet, she's a descendant of Obi-Wan Kenobi's bloodline. After all, Rey hears the voices of actors Alan Guinness and Ewan McGregor — who both played Obi-Wan Kenobi in the previous films — when she picks up Luke's lightsaber in the basement of Maz Kanata's castle in The Force Awakens. "

    She definitely can't be a Solo or a Skywalker of any kind, or her chemistry with Ben Solo would be WAY too incesty. I don't see them making that move again after the Luke/Leia kiss. One incest reference per franchise, plz.

    Cliff_Forster
  • TushonTushon I'm scared, Coach Alexandria, VA Icrontian

    Off of one viewing, I am not nearly as enthusiastic as some others have been. I'm trying to not let that become my settled opinion because there was definitely bad experience audience taint around this viewing that I am aiming to rectify at a better, more empty theater next week. There were some great comedic and a few serious moments, but it did feel like there was a forced element of having a little joke in almost every scene. It wouldn't even be hyperbolic to suggest it was a majority of the actual dialogue. Maybe I'm putting too much expectation of seriousness on a movie that shouldn't have it, but it was almost too much.

  • GnomeQueenGnomeQueen The Lulz Queen Mountain Dew Mouth Icrontian

    @Tushon said:
    Off of one viewing, I am not nearly as enthusiastic as some others have been. I'm trying to not let that become my settled opinion because there was definitely bad experience audience taint around this viewing that I am aiming to rectify at a better, more empty theater next week. There were some great comedic and a few serious moments, but it did feel like there was a forced element of having a little joke in almost every scene. It wouldn't even be hyperbolic to suggest it was a majority of the actual dialogue. Maybe I'm putting too much expectation of seriousness on a movie that shouldn't have it, but it was almost too much.

    Well, I can say for sure that my least favorite part BY FAR was when Phasma tells Finn, "You're just a bug in the system." Ughhhh, so lame. It's literally one of Sombra's lines from Overwatch, lol-- "You're just a glitch in the system." I think they were trying to add levity to that scene maybe? But it didn't need it.

  • GnomeQueenGnomeQueen The Lulz Queen Mountain Dew Mouth Icrontian

    Also, did anyone else feel like Benicio Del Toro felt out of place? I kind of felt like he was a Guardians of the Galaxy character that popped in for some scenes.

  • GnomeQueenGnomeQueen The Lulz Queen Mountain Dew Mouth Icrontian

    Also I totally ship Reylo now. BRB writing fanfic.

  • AlexDeGruvenAlexDeGruven Not as tall as Bobby Tallbeer. Twilight Sparkle is overrated. Meechigan Icrontian

    After first viewing, here are a few thoughts...

    Best Moments:

    • Luke seeing the twin suns setting as he prepares to become one with The Force - I'm not crying, YOU'RE crying
    • Kylo/Ben scamming Snoke
    • The stable-boy and the broom - Especially in the context of Rey's being nobody. The Force is all-encompassing and doesn't care about your parentage. Also throws midi-chlorians (thankfully) out the window (where they belong).
    • HyperDrive fleet destruction - Holy Wow. What an incredible scene. I'm still wrapping my head around its awesomeness and I can't wait for a second viewing to take more in. Absolutely blown away.

    Disappointments:

    • I really wanted more Phasma. As with TFA, I feel they wasted Gwendolyn Christie
    • Wished for more Benicio and his character. Hoping he pops in later in the series (if he wasn't asploded)

    Fun Stuff:

    • The call with Maz while she's dealing with her... problem. Fantastic
    • Luke's whole attitude in the beginning
    • The dice - I just checked images from the original trilogy and they're there
    • BB-8 getting his 'head' knocked off for a moment

    Overall:

    A fantastic installment, and definitely in the running for my favorite. I have more disappointments, and more opinions overall, but I'm waiting for more viewings to further organize.

  • AlexDeGruvenAlexDeGruven Not as tall as Bobby Tallbeer. Twilight Sparkle is overrated. Meechigan Icrontian

    @GnomeQueen said:
    Also, did anyone else feel like Benicio Del Toro felt out of place? I kind of felt like he was a Guardians of the Galaxy character that popped in for some scenes.

    I wanted more depth from that character. I thought they could have done so much more. And maybe they did, but had to cut for time/continuity. His picture in the Vanity Fair spread suggests there was (or maybe is, later) more than what we saw.

    Cliff_Forster
  • AlexDeGruvenAlexDeGruven Not as tall as Bobby Tallbeer. Twilight Sparkle is overrated. Meechigan Icrontian

    Wasn't there something mentioned in the lore that even though heavy force-users could see some of the future, their view was limited to their own choices?

    Could that be why Rey could see the outline of Kylo turning on Snoke, but not the aftermath?

    This is something else I'll have to do some digging on.

  • TushonTushon I'm scared, Coach Alexandria, VA Icrontian

    The porg scenes with Chewie were adorable and I loved them.

    I really did like some of the scenes, though the various tight shots of peoples faces were strange (e.g. Rey describing force, Finn after defeating Phasma). The use of Luke's distraction then two suns shot was fantastic.

    The hyperdrive fleet destruction might have been my favorite single moment, but some idiot a few rows back said "holy shit" loud enough for half the theater, then 7-10 people laughed and ruined that silence.

    Like I said, I'm definitely going to see it again to get a "cleaner" viewing out of it.

    Cliff_ForsterGnomeQueen
  • Cliff_ForsterCliff_Forster Baltimore, MD Icrontian

    The expansion of force powers is exciting in some ways, but when it's forced... (bad pun) not so much.

    Hey, Yoda has been dead like 35 earth years now and you know, he is getting better at being dead all the time. Puppet Yoda looked out of place, he looked like a relic that didn't belong in the film, it was awful. Hey, I'm Yoda, don't you know I'm so cool I can still do stuff in the physical world 35 years post death... I mean if there was his voice speaking to Luke, It's okay Luke, you can let it go, burn it down, move on you must... I'd of been like, cool, maybe even a little force shadow of his face off in the distance while he guides Luke, but him poking him in the nose with a cane and summoning a lightning bolt... It's stupid, like childhood ruined level stupid. Seriously, replace this scene with Jar Jar's son Jug Jug in the pending special editions, that would be better.

    And that's not even the worst thing in the movie. WTF Leia?? Who actually thinks Leia after years of just occasionally feeling things, you know, she is casual with the force and all, not a hardcore player, now, when the shit hits the fan and she is dead floating in outer space she figures out how to pull a force trick to bring herself back from certain death and perform unassisted space travel??? NO, NO, NO!!! It robbed us all of a really important moment emotionally, saying goodbye to Carrie Fisher in a way that felt heroic, in a way that felt right, of consequence. I can only suppose that they felt like her scenes later in the film could not be re shot to make sense without her so they did what they did. Hated it.

    Now... What I did enjoy, the force bridge mind meld thing, that was cool, it created some great story moments. I thought Luke having to project himself across the galaxy because Rey had given up on him, the X-Wing didn't seem like a viable option, looks like that had been in the water about a decade or so... to solve the problem, to do the right thing in the end he does this massively powerful force trick, then he exhausts himself to the point of going Obi Wan... You know he will be back through the force in the next chapter, shit, maybe Yoda will essentially teach him how to not be dead in the physical world?? Who knows...

    I know I sound like I hated The Last Jedi... I didn't. The bombing scene action at the beginning of the film was brilliant, it was a fantastic battle sequence and it invested me emotionally. The Finn / Rose / BB8 arc was a ton of fun, loved it. Rose saving Finn was my favorite moment of the film, I can not confirm or deny a small nerd tear. Holdo, despite the massive plot hole where she would have clearly told Poe what she had in mind the whole time to avoid a ton of internal conflict on the ship... Still, that sacrifice scene was blow my mind awesome. Once again, perhaps a nerd tear... So it accomplished some things, got me to care in many places, it's a good movie. I enjoyed a lot of the humor, but... it got to be a bit much. I think The Force Awakens got the comedic timing much better.

    Now to things that felt unsatisfying...

    Snoke is just Snoke, and now he is dead, and we just know he is super powerful and has scars. I guess that's all we knew about the Emperor before the prequels? Maybe a Snoke Prequel film... who knows? I found Snoke interesting, he had not overstayed his welcome yet. Oh well.

    Rey's origin... It's the biggest point of conflict for me. I can't 100% decide how I feel about it. To me, it's clear that it's exactly what it is. She isn't of any special lineage. She is an ordinary kid who got left behind, an orphan, who had an awakening in the force as the galaxy fell further into darkness. The scene at the end, with the kid and the broom confirms what Rian Johnson is trying to say, and I like the idea. I loved Rogue One because it was the blue collar Star Wars story, the unsung hero's, the nobody's just trying to do the right thing. I think this sets up that vibe in regards to the Jedi moving forward. The Prequel Jedi are of a religion that is repressive and going forward that's a tradition that is being left behind. I mostly like it, but at the same time it feels dissatisfying. I wanted a big surprise, a reveal that tied into something else familiar, anything, but hey kid, you are normal except for the force thing... I'll find peace with that item.

    For me, The Last Jedi is around Prequel level Star Wars. Keep in mind, I like the Prequel films, I defend them to people all the time, but I know how flawed they are as well. Sort of how I enjoy Indy 4, it's still Indiana Jones, it's still got Harrison Ford, there are things in that movie that scratched a certain itch, Giant insects, chase scenes, silly snake pranks, an over the top villain, It's still Indy, but it can not compete with your adoration for the classic films. The Last Jedi is the Crystal Skull of Star Wars lore.

  • MiracleManSMiracleManS Chambersburg, PA Icrontian

    I was honestly completely thrilled with the movie. At no point did I sit there and think "man, I've been in this movie theater a long time", which is not something I can say about some of The Force Awakens. I've caught myself a few times while watching saying "Hmm, how much longer until X?"

    Unlike poor @Tushon I didn't have it ruined by others though. The light speed launch to destroy the dreadnought was 100% gasps and silence. The tension was palpable.

    I'm also really glad they decided Rey should be a nobody. Anakin was a nobody in the middle of nowhere, so the idea that someone else out there could just appear jives with me.

    Maybe its because of my exposure to the old expanded universe, but I have no problems with Leia using the force to do what she did. Not only that but we don't know how much training (if any) she received from Luke. Plus her natural ability and the ability of others in universe canon (Hey Clone Wars cartoon) to survive a vacuum in space, that was way less of an issue for me.

    Overall this one really hit all the buttons I wanted. It was exciting, it was funny, it was deep and emotional. Mark Hamill was absolutely brilliant and I could feel the absolute pain he was experiencing. I could feel his fear. I also thought that the scene with Yoda was a great addition to show Luke that he had lost his own way and begun focusing on things that didn't matter. I was on the edge of my seat wondering when he would show up and he showed up at absolutely the perfect time.

    I was also terrified they were going to pull the "Luke dies like Obi-Wan" card when he had that quote. I'm beyond relieved that they didn't. The last words he said were "See you around kid". It was perfect and the two suns scene was poetic.

    So much just hit the right buttons for me. I could keep going but I want to see it again later this weekend.

    primesuspect
  • Cliff_ForsterCliff_Forster Baltimore, MD Icrontian

    I was the only one that laughed at the close up of the Iron in the New Order laundry room. I saw it as a Hardware Wars Easter egg, but maybe I'm weird that way.

  • Cliff_ForsterCliff_Forster Baltimore, MD Icrontian

    @GnomeQueen said:

    @Cliff_Forster said:
    Puppet Yoda looked out of place, he looked like a relic that didn't belong in the film, it was awful.

    I gotta completely disagree with you there. I'm not sure how I feel about Yoda coming back--it felt a little deus ex machina-- but if they were going to bring him back, puppet Yoda was ABSOLUTELY the best choice. I'm sooooo glad he wasn't CGI.

    I have an incredible fondness for puppet Yoda. Yoda is my favorite character in anything ever. The Empire Strikes Back is my favorite film ever. That said, this particular version looked wrong to me. I'm not sure if it's how Yoda moved. I'm not sure if it was the ghost force lighting effect. I think if anything it was too resolved for a spirit if that makes any sense, it looked wrong, too solid, too there, like you are a ghost right?? It just didn't fit in for me, a hard uneasy feeling to describe. Not kidding ya, I've heard people yell at Lucas about ruining their very childhood, and I never understood how anything could be that bad, now I do.

    You have no idea how uncomfortable it is for me to criticize Star Wars. I've always been the champion that told everyone they were being too critical about nothing little details. This film hit me in a couple spots where I was like, THIS IS NOT MY STAR WARS!!! And I know in a way it's what Johnson wants from the audience. He wants to challenge you to accept some new ideas, and I'm trying to cope with that. It's funny how a fictional story can be so personal, and I've always been the guy that's like, hey guys, it's a fictional universe aimed at the imagination of nine year olds, relax.... And now I'm the asshat I couldn't stand saying "My Childhood is ruined!!"" I don't want to be that guy, but something about this film... I think after the initial hype train wears down you are going to find that a ton of people feel the way I do. I know walking out of the theater fan reaction was very mixed. I'm talking the absolute first public screenings you could go to, real fans, dressed up for the event, and half of them walked out like, WTF just happened. There is a fine line between pushing something in a new direction and respecting it's heritage. Rian Johnson crossed that line for me.

  • GnomeQueenGnomeQueen The Lulz Queen Mountain Dew Mouth Icrontian
    edited Dec 2017

    Reylo!

  • SnarkasmSnarkasm Madison, WI Icrontian

    @primesuspect said:
    When Luke force-projects himself, he took extra time to make himself look good, younger, and dye and trim his beard.

    Ha, I noticed this, too - 'hey, his beard's not white anymore, and... he got a haircut?' And then you find out he's Zen'ing from across the universe. I loved that.

    I think overall, my feelings are that it's a middle movie. It exists to move the plot along, flesh out some stories, get us from the first to the third. Empire was much the same way. We've hit nearly the lowest point we can hit, so now it's time for 9 to come roaring back.

    Leia thing was a little overboard, some of the humor I could have done without, Poe's a fucking badass at the start (but I'm glad he gets brought back to earth later), I sat in the front fucking row so I absolutely need more and better viewings, and I'm definitely generally positive without feeling like it's an award-winner. Good middle movie.

    Cliff_Forster
  • BuddyJBuddyJ Dept. of Propaganda OKC Icrontian

    How did Rey get on the Falcon after the battle on the Supremacy? Plot hole or did I blink and miss something?

  • Cliff_ForsterCliff_Forster Baltimore, MD Icrontian

    @BuddyJ said:
    How did Rey get on the Falcon after the battle on the Supremacy? Plot hole or did I blink and miss something?

    I had a few moments like that afterwards. With so much action and so many threads going at once I don't think I have quite the attention span to pick it all up on the first viewing. I walked away with a few logistical plot questions. The one thing I did notice right away was Luke's hero's entrance at the end, it made zero sense to me until it did.

  • SnarkasmSnarkasm Madison, WI Icrontian

    @BuddyJ said:
    How did Rey get on the Falcon after the battle on the Supremacy? Plot hole or did I blink and miss something?

    You talking about at the end? When Hux found Kylo, they said she took Snoke's escape shuttle, and from there, yeah, I think you're supposed to infer that she located the Falcon and started saving bitches.

    BuddyJ
  • primesuspectprimesuspect Beepin n' Boopin Detroit, MI Icrontian

    18:26 "I escaped somehow"

    Massalinie
  • DontCallMeKelsoDontCallMeKelso The one they call... Kelso San Jose, CA Icrontian

    So I know why they made yoda appear physical when they did, he needed to stop Luke from going in the tree and seeing that the books were gone... "Rey has everything she needs".

    I think the issue some might have with Yoda as a puppet is that its not the original Yoda puppet from Empire, that's long gone.

    RE Rey esacping to the Falcon, she told Chewie to wait for her signal to come get her, so Chewie's out there with the Falcon avoiding the fight waiting for Rey. Rey gets Snoke's escape shuttle/pod thingy and signals Chewie to come get her and they head to the planet there.

    BuddyJGargoyle
  • LincLinc Bard Detroit, MI Icrontian
    edited Dec 2017

    I'm so hung up on the "ring theory" of Star Wars it's crazy. So many great parallels with (and mirrors from) Empire Strikes Back, while pulling other echos out of sync from the other movies. I'm not enough of a media critic to pick out every detail, but I feel the emotional connections and themes more than the minutiae of shot comparisons and finer plot details.

    And speaking of which:

    @GnomeQueen said:
    Also, did anyone else feel like Benicio Del Toro felt out of place? I kind of felt like he was a Guardians of the Galaxy character that popped in for some scenes.

    There's no way Benicio Del Toro doesn't show up in IX. He was Han Solo's mirror, and I can't wait to see how that character plays into the finale. That whole side-plot on the luxury planet was super interesting but flew by so fast I feel like we missed some details in the editing. And that is the only substantial criticism I can come up with for this movie.

    I just walk into every new Star Wars movie with a blank slate and try to think about nothing other than what's happening. I loved the humor, I loved the throwbacks and references, I loved seeing puppet Yoda, I loved Luke's cynicism and the lesson Yoda leaves him with, I loved the stuff that felt a touch hokey (it's a damned space opera!), and I was just stunned by so many sequences I can't remember being that slack-jawed at a movie in the last decade. It was just over-the-top good on viewing one.

    UPSLynxRyderGargoyle
  • Cliff_ForsterCliff_Forster Baltimore, MD Icrontian
    edited Dec 2017

    @Linc - Agree that hyperdrive fleet destruction was fantastic. Brilliant moment, one of the best ever.

    But Leia....

    All we see Leia do with the force in the entire film prior is feel bad stuff happen. She sends her kid off to Jedi training with her Uncle, so I am fair to assume she wasn't a Jedi herself. You know, the Uncle that thought murdering the kid in his sleep might not be a bad idea?? (How is this not pissing more fans off)

    Leia suddenly using the force to escape certain death after taking a direct laser canon blast to then float aimlessly in the merciless vacuum of outer space unprotected is ridiculous. It's Indy in the fridge silly....

    Now, let's agree to disagree on how silly it was... don't you feel a little ripped off that you didn't have your farewell to that character. An exit fit for a hero? I know it would have been nearly impossible technically, but God if you could of had Leia pilot that ship instead of Holdo?? I just felt like I wanted to see the obvious scene where Leia leaves us. Let Carrie Fishers most famous character have a heroic exit... Now what? I really would rather they let her rest in peace. I don't really want to see another actress take up the part. And if they do a CG Leia... Don't get me started. I felt ripped off. I was literally about to cry when I saw her body in space... then, total bullshit. It was a cheap trick to play on the audience if you ask me.

  • d3k0yd3k0y Loveland, OH Icrontian

    Favorite part of the movie.

    Luke - where are you from?
    Rey - nowhere
    Luke - nobody is from nowhere
    Rey - Janku
    Luke - ok, that is pretty much nowhere

    RyanMMLinc
  • GnomeQueenGnomeQueen The Lulz Queen Mountain Dew Mouth Icrontian

    @Linc said:

    There's no way Benicio Del Toro doesn't show up in IX. He was Han Solo's mirror, and I can't wait to see how that character plays into the finale. That whole side-plot on the luxury planet was super interesting but flew by so fast I feel like we missed some details in the editing. And that is the only substantial criticism I can come up with for this movie.

    Oh I'm POSITIVE he'll be in more films. I just don't think that right now he fits stylistically. We'll see what they do with him, I guess. shrug

  • RyanMMRyanMM Ferndale, MI Icrontian
    edited Dec 2017

    @Linc said:
    I'm so hung up on the "ring theory" of Star Wars it's crazy. So many great parallels with (and mirrors from) Empire Strikes Back, while pulling other echos out of sync from the other movies. I'm not enough of a media critic to pick out every detail, but I feel the emotional connections and themes more than the minutiae of shot comparisons and finer plot details.

    And speaking of which:

    @GnomeQueen said:
    Also, did anyone else feel like Benicio Del Toro felt out of place? I kind of felt like he was a Guardians of the Galaxy character that popped in for some scenes.

    There's no way Benicio Del Toro doesn't show up in IX. He was Han Solo's mirror, and I can't wait to see how that character plays into the finale.

    I would argue he's Lando's mirror.

    I didn't like him. He felt like he was playing a variation on his role in The Usual Suspects. The stutter was forced and didn't work for me.

  • GnomeQueenGnomeQueen The Lulz Queen Mountain Dew Mouth Icrontian
    edited Dec 2017

    @Cliff_Forster said:
    @Linc - Agree that hyperdrive fleet destruction was fantastic. Brilliant moment, one of the best ever.

    But Leia....

    All we see Leia do with the force in the entire film prior is feel bad stuff happen. She sends her kid off to Jedi training with her Uncle, so I am fair to assume she wasn't a Jedi herself. You know, the Uncle that thought murdering the kid in his sleep might not be a bad idea?? (How is this not pissing more fans off)

    Leia suddenly using the force to escape certain death after taking a direct laser canon blast to then float aimlessly in the merciless vacuum of outer space unprotected is ridiculous. It's Indy in the fridge silly....

    Now, let's agree to disagree on how silly it was... don't you feel a little ripped off that you didn't have your farewell to that character. An exit fit for a hero? I know it would have been nearly impossible technically, but God if you could of had Leia pilot that ship instead of Holdo?? I just felt like I wanted to see the obvious scene where Leia leaves us. Let Carrie Fishers most famous character have a heroic exit... Now what? I really would rather they let her rest in peace. I don't really want to see another actress take up the part. And if they do a CG Leia... Don't get me started. I felt ripped off. I was literally about to cry when I saw her body in space... then, total bullshit. It was a cheap trick to play on the audience if you ask me.

    They've said repeatedly that they won't do a CGI Leia or use archived footage. What that leaves, I'm not sure. I know that their original plan was to have the 2nd movie revolve around Luke, and the third revolve around Leia, which is no longer possible. They considered changing her role in the 2nd movie based on her death, but decided that what they'd done with her had meaning and that they wanted to preserve it. I think that's especially because she actually helped write a lot of her final dialogue-- the conversations with Luke and Holdo. I think that all of their choices have made sense so far and it made the movie way more unexpected for me-- she was the one character we knew had to die and she didn't.

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