I'm quitting fah - hd might be failing

EyesOnly

Well yesterday i heard something nobody wants to hear, i clicking sound comming from the hd:s. I have 2 and don't know which one made the sound but i know what the sound was. I shutdown the comp and had dinner since i was about to anyway.

Later i used what prolly is an older version of drive fitness test to test both drives but no errors was found and the sound was gone. Still though i'm not taking any chances so beginning some time tomorrow when the current wu is done i'm quitting fah.

I had som hd:s die on me last year but lyckly the data could be saved. Still i had to wait for 2 weeks before i knew if the store could backup the data for me and that was torture so now i'm backing up as fast as the dvdburner will let me.

I find it strange that the drives would be failing when they are so new but apperantly they don't like continuous use so i can'r run fah anymore since that requires the computer to be on all the time. I know that i could still run timeless wus but how much fun is that. Good thing i'm not among the top 100 or so because then it would really suck.

Anyone who would like me to continue folding has until tomorrow to convince me that my problems have a easy solution and that i can still fold. But the hd guide on the front page mentions clicking sounds just like the ones i heard. BTW this is my first IC post. I'm not that active here when i'm not in trouble.

Edit
I just noticed that i'm not that far from top 100. Oh well.

Kentigern

EyesOnly we'd be very sorry if you quit :bawling: ing. But we would your decision.

I'm quite sure though the hardware savvy members here, will have some solutions/suggestions for you.

EyesOnly

Well if the trouble was that serious the sound would still be here so i'm also hoping for a solution.

Thanks though.

IndigoRed

Put FAH on your d or e drive. Keep using the one it is on but not as the source drive. If it's on a junk drive you lose nothing, don't you? And you're still folding without concern for your valuable data. Don't give up!!!

EyesOnly

But i don't know which drive that's failing. Besides both drives have valuable data on them.

dragonV8

Sorry to hear your having troubles, Eyes. I would like to think you could keep folding, as you have been at it for some years now. Maybe you could find an old small HD and use it to fold on.

Either way, i'm sure i speak for a lot of people when i say, your contributions have been greatly appreciated for such a worthwhile cause.

GnomeWizardd

D00d I def understand, For some reason when i folded I went through more hardware than I do now, I dunno if they were connected or not but hey, Its your PC and Nobody rules over it except you!

EyesOnly

dragonV8 wrote:

Sorry to hear your having troubles, Eyes. I would like to think you could keep folding, as you have been at it for some years now. Maybe you could find an old small HD and use it to fold on.

Either way, i'm sure i speak for a lot of people when i say, your contributions have been greatly appreciated for such a worthwhile cause.

Thanks but even if had an older hd för fah, the other ones would still be spinning as long as the computer is one right, and while doing that they will get worn. The only alternative would be a dedicated folding rig with no data other than fah but for now i don't see that happening. No money and barely enough room but money is the biggest issue.

TBonZ

EyesOnly wrote:

Thanks but even if had an older hd för fah, the other ones would still be spinning as long as the computer is one right, and while doing that they will get worn.

I have a small hdd I will ship to you. Adjust your power scheme settings to have your hdd's shut down after 10-20 mins. Unless you are running other programs that will access your C: drive, they will shut off. Your computer can be on, it doesn't mean your hdd's will constantly spin.

Linc

Leaving the computer on 24/7 shouldn't affect hard drive failure rate. I've had it running continuously on 2-3 systems for the last 5 years and I've never had a hard drive fail on me. The logic board died on one (after it was 3 years old), but that can hardly be blamed on read/write access. I'd chalk this one up to bum luck / bad drive before I'd blame F@H.

Winga

I'm with keebs

Folding is very CPU intensive and to a lesser extent RAM hungry. I cant see how it can put that much strain on your HHD's as it doesn't need to access them constantly.

I have a 160 GIG Hitachi drive in my main rig which clicks and clucks and whirls constantly and has done so from the day I bought it new. Apart from the fact that the noise is damn irritating, its going on for two years and it's still going strong!

I'm not suggesting you ignore the noise as your drive may well be packing up. I'm just hoping that we can convince you it may not be folding that's causing it and you able to keep up the good fight

EyesOnly

I'm still waiting for somone to say that non of my drives are failing. I'm thankful that Tbonz wants to send me a drive but that wont fix the still prevailing issue, the fact that a drive is dying and unless i found out which one many more backups will have to be made.

I'm thankful that the drive decided to give me some heads up but since theres no sound i'm starting to have doubts as to what it was i heard.I have left the drives on at all time thinking that it would lessen wear and tear. If fah doesn't read/write all the time and since the drives are about 1-2 years old then fah really isn't to blame. And i think i know which drive is failing.

While i was browsing it i suddenly ended up in the homefolder. Now the homefolder is not on that drive so i should not get there just by browsing a folder. Also all other file windows was closed. This is not like ubuntu so maybe i was browsing the failing drive.

I don't know which version of DFT i was using but if thrax is right and new versions comes out every now and then, then maybe this version will work better. And if just one if the drives are giving up then it should be safe for me to reboot know and to some testing since all data on that drive is backup up. I still how much more on the otherone.

Maybe the solution is to figure out which drive is failing, backup/move eveything of value of it, and continue using fah, this time letting the drives turn of when idle.

I'm attaching a debug log that nautilus created when the error occoured. Please have a look at it since it didn't mean much to me. And am i correct that what i should change is in power management and: let the computer sleep while inactive for x minutes. I'm post back in a few hours or so when the tests are done.

EyesOnly

Winga wrote:

I'm with keebs

Folding is very CPU intensive and to a lesser extent RAM hungry. I cant see how it can put that much strain on your HHD's as it doesn't need to access them constantly.

I have a 160 GIG Hitachi drive in my main rig which clicks and clucks and whirls constantly and has done so from the day I bought it new. Apart from the fact that the noise is damn irritating, its going on for two years and it's still going strong!

I'm not suggesting you ignore the noise as your drive may well be packing up. I'm just hoping that we can convince you it may not be folding that's causing it and you able to keep up the good fight

Are you sure that's not just the standard working sound. Besides this sound just started as the computer already was on. As i said i'll post back soon. You posted while i was writing my post. :o

Linc

EyesOnly - by posting in F@H, I assumed your post was related to F@H primarily and that you'd already diagnosed the drive as dying. I'll bump this over to General Hardware so it's clear we're focusing on the hard drive issue

SPIKE09

Just a small query have you enabled SMART on the HDD? never had a folding HDD failure and I used to fold on some old kit, you might also try the manufacturers diagnostic tools. And if it is cheaper in postage i have a 20 GB hard drive here that is known to be in good fettle you can have.

Thrax

The testing routine for DFT has been consistent for more than a year. You can only test a hard drive in so many ways before your updates consist of little more than feature additions to support new drives. If DFT says the drive was not bad when it was run, the drive was not bad when it was run. It's certainly possible that the drive is undergoing intermittent failure which, from your description, sounds like a dying armature actuator.

If that is indeed the case, you can be assured that F@H is not the cause. Day-to-day operations in Windows are more stressful than 20 F@H clients writing WU steps to disk. You also mentioned allowing the HDD to move into idle: That's more stressful to the drive than allowing it to remain spinning at a constant velocity. When spun up an HDD's inertia greatly assists to sustain the rotation, putting less stress on the spindle motor. Going from a cold start requires a full ramp of the motor and a full head seek with the armature, which is more work than an HDD does on a regular basis.

Succinctly: It may just be the drive's time to go.

edcentric

E-O, it could be heat related. Some drives get real heat sensitive when they start to go. I had one that gave me 10min. of usage before it started making noise. I took it out of the case and put a fan on it and was able to get all info off of it. In fact it ran that way for another year, but whenever it got warm it clicked and missed reads.

EyesOnly

More tests are done and as usual nothing was found to be wrong.

Keebler wrote:

EyesOnly - by posting in F@H, I assumed your post was related to F@H primarily and that you'd already diagnosed the drive as dying. I'll bump this over to General Hardware so it's clear we're focusing on the hard drive issue

When i first got the error i was sure the drive was moments away from dying so i posted there. The more time that past the more i started wondering if i was correct, but you're right it's not a fah issue any more.

SPIKE09 wrote:

Just a small query have you enabled SMART on the HDD? never had a folding HDD failure and I used to fold on some old kit, you might also try the manufacturers diagnostic tools. And if it is cheaper in postage i have a 20 GB hard drive here that is known to be in good fettle you can have.

Hmm i think i have SMART enabled but can't remember. It's a bios thing right?. Can't check now since i just started folding again. Kept the computer off during the night as well as while i was at work just in case something happened. About the HD, thanks i'll think about it.

Thrax wrote:

from your description, sounds like a dying armature actuator.
It may just be the drive's time to go.

Well now i know unemployment sucks. I can say that because i have been using the computer a lot during the days then left it on for folding during the nights. That must have been wearing the drives out even though i did let them run and not shut down during idle as suggested. Since both drives are failing is there anyway to check which drive so i can move the files from that one.

edcentric wrote:

E-O, it could be heat related. Some drives get real heat sensitive when they start to go. I had one that gave me 10min. of usage before it started making noise. I took it out of the case and put a fan on it and was able to get all info off of it. In fact it ran that way for another year, but whenever it got warm it clicked and missed reads.

Well my previous box might have been a bit too warm but not this one.

Looks like it's back to backups for the time being till i know for sure which drive that needs to be replaced. :sad2:

Missileman

Just a little ray of hope. Most modern drives go through a thermal self recalibration. It comes out on most drives as a patterned clicking sound. They don't do it continously, but they do it at random intervals. The platters expand and contract with temperature. This effectively moves the data when you're talking about things this small and close. The drive goes through several full cycle strokes commanding various tracks and checking for the data. The servo position is then reset and aligned to the new value. Many times this is mistaken for hard drive failures with people used to the old ATA days. Most drive failures today are not heard and give no warning except maybe a growing bad block table. Sometimes they are slow to spin up when it's the force bearing going bad, but clicking failures are very rare these days.

I have a seagate drive with perpendicular writing in my NAS that will wake me up in the middle of the night when it decides to rattle its little tune.

If the manufacturers dignostics say it is okay I wouldn't worry about a little clicking from a functioning drive. However, backups are always a good idea.

EyesOnly

Are you dure about that MM? If so then my drives are ok then? Well since no errors can be found that's the only conclusion that makes sense, to bad i had to hear it. If so i'm gonna stop backing up stuff and hope the real failure is years away, though i'm scared about what you said about no warnings.

Still though, until i can find another computer for dedicated folding i'm going on a break. I don't want to risk the drives anymore than i have to and as long as the computer is on they will get worn even if fah is on another drive. I'll be folding for about 2 or so days because the wu i was working on ran past its deadline and got kicked out. I was wondering why fah was running when i used the oneunit flag but now i know. 2 days 3 hours to be precise.

BTW i forgot to say that my drives are 160 GB Seagate SATA drives.

Thrax

MM is right. Heat makes things expand, and the thin platters of a hard drive are no exception. When you have a hard drive that relies on X bit to be in such and such a position down to the micrometer, it damn well better be there, right? So from time to time, the HDD does indeed calibrate the actuator in response to temperature variations. And really, DFT is many, many times more stressful than anything you can do on a daily basis. If the drive was going bad, 10:1 says it would've shown up.

IndigoRed

You're missing our message, mate!
Drives - good
Not backing up - bad
Not Folding for a cure - Very bad... :bigggrin:

Don't go!

Winga

MM great explanation on the drives. That would explain why my drive gets so noisy sometimes. It has settled down some in the last few months, but still has it's moments.

EyesOnly please don't stop folding :bawling:

EyesOnly

I'm still thinking. BTW fah just started on a new wu last night. So much for that flag.

EyesOnly

I have another question. Does a squeaking sound mean trouble or is it normal? I'm asking because i heard it earlier and started backing up some more files. When i came back 15 minutes later the sound had stopped. IT didn't really sound like a clicking but more like a bearing needing lubrication.

I'm starting to really consider a new drive but i need to know if it's needed. Is there some absolute way to know that a drive is failing while theres still time to fix it, or should i just wait for the click of death or similar sound. My files are disorganised since i don't want to move thing back should i need to backup again.

I've looked at the settings in ubuntu and there doesn't appear to be any option to shut down the drives. The only power options are for making the computer sleep or to turn of the screen. A quick answer would be nice so i can stop by the computer store for a new drive should it be necessary.

CB

Could have been a mouse in the wall behind the computer. Their squeaks sound almost exactly like a squeaky bearing. It's happened to me before... In fact the Orkin man will be here any minute because the squeaking sound my refrigerator was making started to move into the living room.

Also, squeaking from a PC case it usually a fan, not a HD.

EyesOnly

Well all walls down here are concrete so no mice, other than the one connected to the computer that is.

Ok so no hd error. Still it's strange that the sound stopped. All fans are still running so if one was failing i should hear it.

EyesOnly

I've been thinking and as a result i sure don't trust harddrives. In his guide thrax says that when a grinding noise is heard, that's it, the drive is toast. I clicking noise is also bad, yet here i hear that i clicking sound is just a sign of maintenance. It makes me wonder just how old that guide is. I thought it was new but then missilemans post contradicts that. And drive(s) sure where active yesterday just making me expect the worst. Then they fell silent until this morning when i heard it again for a little while.

Anyways my hd:s are in somewhat of a mess since i had to split up some folders before i could back them up. Since i like order i want to move the files back but i don't wanna do that if i'll be making rolling backups. How will i know which files that's changed since the last time. So i wanna know if there are any sure ways of knowing that a drives is going bad while there's still time to fix it. I'll be keeping the computer on so there's no point in checking bootup times. Or should i just make weekly schedules to run DFT?

As far as fah not using the discs is concered i do download a lot of files as well and that does require discs.

Thrax

That article is not more than a month or two old. It is important to understand what sort of "Clicking" or "Grinding" you're hearing. Unfortunately the English language is not adept enough to describe the difference between a good click and a bad click; you can only know it when you hear it.

There's a definite difference between the two, but it can't be put to words.

CB

Sure it can: One is sort of a sick ticking, while the other is kind-of like a tepid tocking.

EyesOnly

Any chance you could get a recording of those. It's hard to get a picture without having heard it. IS the tocking more towards a lower frequency than the ticking. Since i'm getting to hear a lot of ticking lately, even though it sounds different each time, or so i think.

BTW being non native english i had to look up tepid.