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skidrowrocks
Icrontic Convert
skidrowrocks
16 Posts
12 Jun 2003, 10:29pm

Computer makes room hot!

Since its summer now i've noticed my computer can really heat up my room. I usually leave it on all the time is there anything I can do? I am not overclocking and I have a 1ghz Athlon with a KT7. Any suggestions besides running my $$$Air Conditioner$$$.
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Aranyic
Yep
Aranyic
1,083 Posts
12 Jun 2003, 10:38pm
More than you computer it's probably the crt monitor sitting in front of you. Those suckers put off some heat. Only way to help that would be go lcd I believe.
__________________
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Omega65
EPoX Evangelist!
Omega65
2,891 Posts
12 Jun 2003, 10:40pm
You computer is venting ~100 watts of heat and so is your monitor. Your only option besides opening a window/ running the AC - is to turn them off
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skidrowrocks
Icrontic Convert
skidrowrocks
16 Posts
12 Jun 2003, 11:10pm
Are the newer AMD's any better on heat. I now the P4's are but would I really notice in a situation like this. The monitor is usually on standby so I don't think its that. I leave my computer on usually to download large files and to share my internet. Maybe I'll just break down and buy a router.
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Mt_Goat
Relentless Pursuit
Mt_Goat
4,920 Posts
12 Jun 2003, 11:25pm
Originally posted by Omega65
You computer is venting ~100 watts of heat and so is your monitor. Your only option besides opening a window/ running the AC - is to turn them off
Omega65 is correct and I would just turn off the monitor when not in front of it. I have mine set to turn of after 20 minutes of inactivity. If not using the computer for folding or such when not there then by all means turn it all off. With the modern components, especially when coupled with Win 2K or XP there really is no need to keep it running for nothing.
__________________ I met a woman in a bar and she asked if she could take me home. I replied that I was better than that. So she asked if she could take me to a nice restraunt for dinner then go to a fancy hotel for the night and I said OK.
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Coaster
Icrontian
Coaster
815 Posts
12 Jun 2003, 11:47pm
Originally posted by skidrowrocks
Are the newer AMD's any better on heat. I now the P4's are but would I really notice in a situation like this. The monitor is usually on standby so I don't think its that. I leave my computer on usually to download large files and to share my internet. Maybe I'll just break down and buy a router.
Oh yes, the Bartons are MUCH better with heat
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Enisada
Ascending
Enisada
212 Posts
12 Jun 2003, 11:51pm
All you have to do if you are living in an aparment is find where the apartment next to you has there power and patch into it. Plug your AC into that now you got some free AC...lol and you can leave your computer on...

JJ
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Mt_Goat
Relentless Pursuit
Mt_Goat
4,920 Posts
12 Jun 2003, 11:58pm
Originally posted by Enisada
All you have to do if you are living in an aparment is find where the apartment next to you has there power and patch into it. Plug your AC into that now you got some free AC...lol and you can leave your computer on...

JJ
If you're going that route then you may as well plug you computer in to that too.

No I didn't say that....I'm a good boy...yes, I'm a good boy...uhh huh I am good..........
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Enisada
Ascending
Enisada
212 Posts
13 Jun 2003, 12:35am
Seriously though you prolly going to have to shut down the system. Too bad you don't live in Canada eh??
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nenet
Icrontic Convert
nenet
12 Posts
13 Jun 2003, 1:10am
Got/had that problem too. 3 sys. 6 monitors in 11x11 ft. room. Work naked and get 2 or 3 specimens of the oposite sex (your choice)...or get a server room cooler like I did. Portable and vents to outside via expandable adpt. for window/door. APC makes them or can buy similar at Sam's, Ebay, etc. HVAC guy told me I needed 1 ton (12,000 btu) of cooling for my office, but my 7000 btu server room cooler works great for me. Hey, hook it to the intakes on your rigs for a real cool down.
I tried the door jamb fans (located upper corner of jamb, hot air out) to get the heat out and a fan on the floor blowing in (cool air from floor) and it works abit, but not so much as you would notice after being in the room awhile.
Get the APC server room cooler or similar and you will be...cool again.
nenet
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Ed^Chigliak
Icrontic Technician
Ed^Chigliak
81 Posts
13 Jun 2003, 1:16am
You run the fans in your PC anyway but recirculating the warm air in your room so why not make your PC work as a ventilation unit? My suggestion would be to cut a whopping great hole in the top of your PC case where the heat accumulates and flex duct the warm air straight outside. You can fit an inline fan in the duct or on your case opening and discharge the warm air to negatively pressurise your room slightly. You should also reverse the fan on your PSU to blow inwards to catch all the heat sources into one extract. Next install a grille in the outside wall at high level or open a top window and the cooler outside air will flow accross the ceilng. Cool air wil enter high up and will slowly sink to the floor cooling the whole room like a chilled beam air conditioning system. Obviously there is no refrigeration so it will work best when the outside temperature is cooler than your room. Air movement ie fresh air changes per hour will be increased and will help to cool you down even on a hot day as reduced humidity will allow you to cool naturally by evaporative heat loss. Shut the grilles or windows if the outside conditions are hotter or more humid than your room but leave the PC on will pull air from other rooms in your house which could be an improvement.

Router is not a bad idea I bought one becasue I was sick of the humming noise running 24/7 PC's about the house not to mention EMF flying everywhich way.

Ed^
__________________ Theory... when water is inwound down a whorl-pipe toward my CPU along a cycloid-spiral space cuve its density increased naturally through coactive physical influences and the water approaches its anomaly point of +4 deg C so my CPU temp is quite literally as cool as a vortex.
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skidrowrocks
Icrontic Convert
skidrowrocks
16 Posts
13 Jun 2003, 1:54am
Thats a good idea ED but i only have a sliding glass door. Also I'm in Southern California so were probably talking 100+ degrees this summer.
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Enisada
Ascending
Enisada
212 Posts
13 Jun 2003, 1:59am
Water cool it. It will still give off heat but maybe a few degrees less of it.
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timinator
Icrontic Technician
timinator
61 Posts
13 Jun 2003, 2:03am
if you have central air, build a box that is air tight with one hole to fit over ac vent and another hole for a deskfan. you can suck all the ac out of the vents with this....trust me :-) (also helps w/ heat in the winter)
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CCW
Icrontic Duke of Haxor
CCW
221 Posts
13 Jun 2003, 6:55am
You asked if the new processors are better for heat so heres a list of there heat output in watts at stock speed:

Duron (Spitfire Core) -
550 = 21.2
600 = 27.4
650 = 29.4
700 = 31.4
750 = 33.4
800 = 35.5
850 = 37.4
900 = 39.5
950 = 41.5

Duron (Morgan Core) -
900 = 42.7
950 = 44.4
1000 = 46.1
1100 = 50.3
1200 = 54.7
1300 = 60.03

K7 Processors -
500 = 42
550 = 46
600 = 50
650 = 54
700 = 50

K75 Processors -
550 = 31
600 = 34
650 = 36
700 = 39
750 = 40
800 = 48
850 = 50
900 = 60
950 = 72
1000 = 65

Socket A Thunderbird Processors -
650 = 36.1
700 = 38.3
750 = 40.4
800 = 42.6
850 = 44.8
900 = 49.7
950 = 52
1000 = 54.3
1100 = 60
1200 = 66
1333 = 70
1400 = 72

Athlon MP (Palamino Core) -
1000 = 46.1
1200 = 54.7
1500+ = 60
1600+ = 62.8
1800+ = 66
1900+ = 68
2000+ = 68

Athlon XP (Palamino Core) -
1500+ = 60
1600+ = 62.8
1700+ = 64
1800+ = 66
1900+ = 68
2000+ = 70
2100+ = 72

Athlon XP (Thoroughbred Core) -
1700+ = 49.35
1800+ = 51
1900+ = 52.5
2000+ = 61.28
2100+ = 62.08
2200+ = 62.88
2400+ = 68.31
2600+ = 68.31
2700+ = 68.31
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XZGohan
Icrontic Regular
XZGohan
38 Posts
13 Jun 2003, 7:11am
Originally posted by Enisada
Water cool it. It will still give off heat but maybe a few degrees less of it.
Lol.

Imagine this guys, Arizona summer heat + 21' CRT + 2x 17' CRT +226 watt Peltier + 2600+ running full load all day... My room can hit above 90*f, the air conditioner has no effect on the amount of heat being put out by all my stuff.
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CCW
Icrontic Duke of Haxor
CCW
221 Posts
13 Jun 2003, 7:14am
Overclocking in the desert must suck!
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XZGohan
Icrontic Regular
XZGohan
38 Posts
13 Jun 2003, 7:17am
Thats what industrial fans are for
Sit in my leather chair with a coke and a 20 inch fan blowing on me. Only problem is when your eyes start to itch and turn red from drying out

CCW - any relation to CCx?
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CCW
Icrontic Duke of Haxor
CCW
221 Posts
13 Jun 2003, 7:52am
Originally posted by XZGohan

CCW - any relation to CCx?
Nope, afraid not. Im the CCW from XS and AOA.
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dNA3D
Innocent Inhabitant
dNA3D
69 Posts
13 Jun 2003, 8:14am
Originally posted by XZGohan
Sit in my leather chair with a coke and a 20 inch fan blowing on me. Only problem is when your eyes start to itch and turn red from drying out
ROFLMAO... real s-m-r-t yeah?
My room has a peculiar temperature gradient. The area around my bed feels like 20 degrees celcius most of the time. Then as I move towards my computer (17" CRT, Altec Lansing Speakers, High wattage lighting system), it starts to feel like a Dodge Viper without its air-conditioning on.
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Clutch
I'm the man in the box
Clutch
4,805 Posts
13 Jun 2003, 9:29am
haha I know how you guys feel. In my house, every room is not to cold but cool. Then as soon as you step in my room, the heat hits you, even with my ceiling fan on and a window open. I only have one vent in my room so the ac doesn't circulate well in here. It is around 83f in my room everyday.
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1-22 Infantry Regiment
4th Infantry Division
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Omega65
EPoX Evangelist!
Omega65
2,891 Posts
13 Jun 2003, 4:19pm
Change any light in your room from regular incandescent bulbs to florescent bulbs you'll save 75% power and they put out a lot less heat.

Also P4 put out a lot more heat per rating than AMD CPU (They have grater surface area so they're easier to cool.

P4 2.40ghz v1.500 = 77w
P4 2.53ghz v1.525 = 80w
P4 2.60ghz v1.525 = 83w
P4 2.80ghz v1.525 = 85w
P4 3.06ghz v1.525 = 95w

For my comparison my Barton @ FSB400 2.30ghz v1.85 (PR3250) produces ~100w
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izzugotom
Icrontic Technician
izzugotom
58 Posts
13 Jun 2003, 9:22pm
Found that if other fans are running in a room, they may blow you "cool", but in fact interfere with the natural cooling of the room. By that I mean these fans blow the air all over the place, so that HOT air and COLD air is not anymore where they soppose to be....HOT to the roof & COLD to the floor.
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Slacker
Icrontic Technician
Slacker
96 Posts
13 Jun 2003, 10:58pm
If that's the case, then how do ceiling fans work? It feels much cooler with it on.
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XZGohan
Icrontic Regular
XZGohan
38 Posts
14 Jun 2003, 4:19am
Fans speed up the natural speeds of sweat drying on you, making you feel colder.

Just a guess
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Clutch
I'm the man in the box
Clutch
4,805 Posts
14 Jun 2003, 4:52am
Ceiling fans just spin around around, the way the blades are angled must make the air spin down sometimes. My ceiling fan is almost right over me, and the air is cool when it's on, and every probably 25 seconds I get a big burst of cold air that drops on me, so I'm thinking because the way the blades are made and angled, or at least on mine, which it is over 18 years old also.
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CCW
Icrontic Duke of Haxor
CCW
221 Posts
14 Jun 2003, 8:25am
Fan increases the number of gas partilces hitting surface for heat to "jump" to.

Craig
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izzugotom
Icrontic Technician
izzugotom
58 Posts
14 Jun 2003, 5:20pm
You are right, it does feel cooler,..... because of your skin-it helps you-yourself....., but the PC is getting warmer heat than with the room fans off, if it was standing near the floor-That was what I ment.
>I have sensors installed, and can see the effect within 10-20 seconds of powering up/down such a fan....While the temp rises, I feel cooler.
>I never suspected this to happen, until I fitted sensors, it even picks me up when I come and sit at the desk.[PC build into desk]
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Ed^Chigliak
Icrontic Technician
Ed^Chigliak
81 Posts
14 Jun 2003, 7:17pm
Originally posted by CCW
Fan increases the number of gas partilces hitting surface for heat to "jump" to.

Craig
I like your thinking on the principles at work here and how you choose to describe it. You wouldn't normally associate heat with jumping but the mental image it conjours up is great and got me thinking too. Well atleast trying to remember what I should know about all this sort of stuff.

I was taught that heat transfers by two methods convection & radiation.

Convection I guess is like you describe with heat offloading onto passing particles that come into contact with a hot surface. The fan on your heat sink moves them along and the quicker the better it seems. This I can understand. If the warm air particles hang around the heatsink too long then the temperature differential is lower and the heat doesn't want to jump ship quite so much and your CPU starts to overheat. Now warm air rises because it is less dense so the particles around your heat sink will move along without the fan but they drag there feet and generally wandering up and away too slowly. Stick a fan on to gee them up and everything is under control. Convection requires particles to work so in a vaccuum there isn't any convection which is how a thermos works.

Heat also transfers by radiation which I don't really undestand. Radiant heat is transmited by the hot object and absorbed by surrounding surfaces and can travel accross the vaccuum of space hence radiation from the sun. Now some surfaces will absorb radiant heat better than others. Surfaces that are matt black are good absorbers and surfaces that are white or mirrored are poor absorbers which all sounds alot like light to me. Now if a surface gets real hot it becomes white hot and produces light so does that mean that radiant heat is light but outside the visible spectrum? Anyway everyone should paint the inside of the PC cases matt black it will get those case temps down which is something I never thought of before.

Sooo.. what can I suggest to keep cool in a hot room having considered the methods of heat transfer. Well its obvious firstly you need to dodge the air particles in your room so that heat can't jump onto you and secondly you need to body paint yourself silver and sit in the dark. Turn the brightness right down on your monitor so you can barely see it but can still operate you're PC.

Do I know what heat is yet?

NO not really.
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Cool Canuck
ICF has been.
Cool Canuck
435 Posts
14 Jun 2003, 8:00pm
Originally posted by Ed^Chigliak
I was taught that heat transfers by two methods convection & radiation.

Heat also transfers by radiation which I don't really undestand. Radiant heat is transmited by the hot object and absorbed by surrounding surfaces and can travel accross the vaccuum of space hence radiation from the sun. Now some surfaces will absorb radiant heat better than others. Surfaces that are matt black are good absorbers and surfaces that are white or mirrored are poor absorbers which all sounds alot like light to me. Now if a surface gets real hot it becomes white hot and produces light so does that mean that radiant heat is light but outside the visible spectrum? Anyway everyone should paint the inside of the PC cases matt black it will get those case temps down which is something I never thought of before.
You are soooooo close Ed. Heat does travel in waves. Light travels in waves. Radio signals travel in waves. They are not of the same wave length though but similiar principles apply. They can be reflected or absorbed.

So painting the inside of the PC case black is good as it will absorb the heat. What colour do we need to paint the outside of the case to dissipate the heat?? And do these principles hold true in the dark??
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Ed^Chigliak
Icrontic Technician
Ed^Chigliak
81 Posts
14 Jun 2003, 11:15pm
Once the heat is absorbed into the case it is conducted through to the outside so conduction the 3rd method by which heat moves along it's merry way. Two out of three that would be a pass grade.

Maybe I shoud take my pass and leg it.

You are asking me if in the abscence of light a white surface is black and the answer is no since when the light returns it will still be white. If a tree falls in a forest and there is nobody around to here it crash it still makes a sound. A white surface in the dark is no better at absorbing radiant heat than it would be in the light. Inside my PC it is dark and you are of the opinion that painting it black would be benificial so in a way you have answer your own question have you not?

In addition the black paint should ideally be a good conductor of heat but because the layer is very thin the conductivity is probably of little consequence. Below the paint the metal is still silver but the method of transfer is now conductivity so heat is not reflected (I might come back to that later). The bond between the layer of paint is obviously a factor in the same way a good bond between CPU and heat sink is important. How much of a facter I do not know but some coatings must be better than others and there must be coatings specifically designed for this purpose.

I do not know what you mean by dissipate in this situation. To me dissipate means to spread out like RAM heat spreaders dissipate heat over a larger surface area. How does dissipate apply to radiant heat? To spread heat the case would be copper, aluminium or steel in that order of preference. The outside of the case should have a large surface are to maximise convective heat loss again but the temperature differential is small to make it not worth the while and the surface already large. The outside of my PC should be white... I guess.

Now so as not to hi-jack the my rooms is too hot thread I now have a posative suggestion to stay cool. Wear a loose fitting black robe next to the skin with a white outer robe over the top. Look at other hot coutries and traditionally the clothing layers worn to stay cool. I know jeans and T shirt are the universal constant but ptobably not what will functional best.

Ed^
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Cool Canuck
ICF has been.
Cool Canuck
435 Posts
15 Jun 2003, 4:19am
So the bottom line then is, skidrowrocks needs to paint the walls of his room black, the outside walls white and wear a loose fitting black robe next to the skin with a white outer robe over the top.
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Enverex
~-+-~
Enverex
5,852 Posts
15 Jun 2003, 12:45pm
I dont see how 2 robes could be cooler than a loose thin t-shirt and shorts (make sure you dont wear socks, they will make you a lot hotter). My room is insanely hot now, and its so humid here (and outside) that its hard to breath, the fan is just circulating hot dead air =/

NS
__________________ RetroTracks - Classic Computer and Game Music
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Ladypcer
Survivor
Ladypcer
47 Posts
15 Jun 2003, 1:15pm
or just do like was recently suggested to me... duct the case fans into a homemade dehydrator and make beef jerky.
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