The Tank Problem

primesuspectprimesuspect Beepin n' BoopinDetroit, MI Icrontian

The expansion is not even out yet and we have some guild drama brewing. Wouldn't be Icrontic without drama! :D

People are excited. They want to know their role and place and know where they stand and what they'll be doing so that they can focus on their artifacts and all of that. I get it.

However, it is WAY too early to make a decision on who will be tanking raids that aren't even out yet. We need to just play the game, start running content, see where things stand, see what people's availability is, see if people actually like doing what they do, etc. THE EXPANSION IS NOT OUT YET. Let's not lose perspective.

I will not be making a decision on who will be our second progression raiding tank yet. Our main tank is Maejah (@Sazbean) and that's where we're at right now. A few people have expressed interest in the second tank spot and all of them are expecting me to say "Yes, you're the one". That's not how it's going to work. We have one spot and four people vying for it. It's not going to be a performance contest since we're not a hardcore raiding guild, but it will be based on how I feel it will affect morale and overall guild health. PLEASE REMEMBER that Icrontic is NOT A WARCRAFT GUILD. It is a group of friends who get together several times a years for parties and some of us happen to play WoW. If you are looking for a progress guild, we ain't it. If you want to look at it from the WoW meta, we're a social guild who happens to have decent gamers in it and we luck into raid progress somehow.

Things will change and shake out very differently over the course of the expansion. I cannot at this time pronounce one person our "new tank" and then be done with it; there are far too many variables. Some people may drop out, some people may go back to school or move or start some other new life journey. Things change. I've got the long view on this guild and trust me when I say that things are way too volatile to just make set-in-stone decisions about roles.

There will be plenty of opportunities for everyone who wants to tank.. to tank. Please don't feel like someone has to be "crowned" the new tank. Just play the game with us and have fun. The new system makes it look like we'll be able to gear up and work on artifacts in ways other than 'just' raiding, so nobody is going to be left behind. There are lots of opportunities for more than two tanks.

@Levex, @Mytch, @RootWyrm, @Malland I hear you. I know you all want to know if you'll be our progression raid tank when we start raiding. The answer is: we'll see how it shakes out when we actually have to make a decision.



  • ChoochChooch K-Pop authority™, Pho King Madison Heights, MI Icrontian

    Wait. I know I said I wanted to tank too. well my Gorilla does.

  • RootWyrmRootWyrm Icrontian

    I'm 100% on board with this. To be clear: I like tanking. I want to tank stuff. If that's the progression raid, that's fine. If it's an alt raid, that's fine. If it's heroic and mythic dungeons, that's fine. (Caution: may drag you on dungeons constantly.) "Me like tank." But if somebody else is doing a better job, I want them tanking.
    Yeah, I used to MT raids on my DK. All that means is, I know how to do the safety dance. Also means I haven't done it since Cata with any class. I have no idea how I'll perform, or how long it'll take me to get up to snuff.

    But not for @Church4252. Nope. No tank for you.

  • TwoheartedTwohearted New Boston, MI Member

    This sounds like a good problem for a guild to have!

    Thanks for everyone wanting to tank!

  • My only concern ( not that I want to tank), if you have people that are serious about tanking or leading a raid you need to let them know fairly early on. The way the Artifact weapon is this expansion ( the only weapon you will EVER get) is that it is going to take a while to level it up to full potential swapping specs on the fly is not going to easily happen this expansion. There is only so much resources per character to put into your weapon at a time...That is my 2 cents for what it is worth.

  • RyderRyder Kalamazoo, Mi Icrontian

    You will be able to have an Artifact for every spec.

  • ThraxThrax 🐌 Austin, TX Icrontian

    All-speccing is viable through the first gold traits of all specs. Dual-speccing is definitely viable through the main artifact tree progressions; tri-speccing and quad-speccing are not recommended due to extra effort involved, but can probably be done if really wanted. Ultimately, players will want to choose a single mainspec when they reach hidden traits in any spec, for these require so much Artifact Power that multispeccing hidden traits requires vastly more effort than most players would be willing to put forth.

    More info.

  • RyderRyder Kalamazoo, Mi Icrontian

    I was referring to:

    Obtaining your Second, Third and Fourth Artifacts
    Once you reach level 102, you can obtain Artifacts for all specs in your class (All 3 in most cases, 2 for Demon Hunters, 4 in the case of Druids) if you so choose.
    To do so, you return to your Order Hall and pick up the quest for selecting a second artifact. At this point, you are sent on the questline to obtain your second Artifact.

    After getting your second Artifact Weapon, you are then offered the quest to get your third (and for Druid, a fourth after that).

  • Ok well all I am saying is you better research the artifacts..from I have seen and listened to, YES you can multispec...BUT... if you start putting traits say in your enhancement spec when your main is ele....those traits are lost to the ele split resources on a single toon...One spec will be the strongest from what i have seen..that is all I am saying.

  • RyderRyder Kalamazoo, Mi Icrontian

    What I am saying, unless I am reading it wrong (and it could be fair to say I am).
    You will have up to (depending on class) 4 weapons. So you won't be sacrificing the stats on one to another.
    It will require you to play more, yes, in order to get Artifact Knowledge enough to level up both weapons.

  • primesuspectprimesuspect Beepin n' Boopin Detroit, MI Icrontian

    It's the same as leveling the ring right now. You will have to duplicate some effort to power up two artifacts. That's always been WoW. You grind.

  • LevexLevex Animal Whisperer Iowa Icrontian

    From what I understand from a bunch of Beta players it's a point split that increases with each level gained. It is not a "static" number like leveling the ring. It requires more work than just doing a weekly boss or a little bit of dungeons. From what I understand you want to max out your main before investing in anything else.

  • ThraxThrax 🐌 Austin, TX Icrontian

    If y'all read the blog I posted, it addresses this topic with data. The relevant chart is below.

    • Bottom axis plots Artifact ranks up to the max of 54
    • Specifically, it shows the progress of leveling 1 artifact vs. leveling 2, 3 or 4 equal weapons or one MS weapons that's always +3 levels on the OS weapon.
    • To use: follow blue line to a certain number of artifact points, then go up to one of the other colors. Go across to the left and see what number that new dot corresponds to. That's what level your artifact would be if you only focused on one, instead of on multiple.
    • Example: Follow blue line up and to the right to 40 AP. Go up to the red dot above that (two dots directly up for colorblind folks). Now go across to the left, you'll see that's 45. This means that leveling two weapons with your AP to 40 would take the same amount of time as getting one weapon to 45.

    As you can see, the break point isn't too bad up until level 32, where there's an AP cost bump. Then at 34 it ramps up, because you run out of interesting traits at 34. The next 20 levels are literally just a flat DPS increase. +5% at level 35, then +0.5% for the remaining 19 levels.

    So it really isn't too detrimental to juggle two weapons up to 32. You'll only be a few days behind someone who focused strictly on one weapon. Before spending that 33rd point, though, you gotta pick a main spec.

    tl;dr: people have time to figure out their specs. Juggling two until level 32 is fine. It won't hurt. That'll take you a while.

  • RyderRyder Kalamazoo, Mi Icrontian

    My bad guys :bawl:

  • GnomeQueenGnomeQueen The Lulz Queen Mountain Dew Mouth Icrontian

    it's cool, i'll tank. I totally know what I'm doing.

  • RootWyrmRootWyrm Icrontian

    @Thrax said:
    So it really isn't too detrimental to juggle two weapons up to 32. You'll only be a few days behind someone who focused strictly on one weapon. Before spending that 33rd point, though, you gotta pick a main spec.

    And because I am pedantic, I get to point out that even then when you get into my two tank classes of choice - DK and Druid - you're talking a fairly minor risk. (Thanks, stat crunch and simplification!) Blood DK needs.. STR! Unholy DK needs.. STR! Maw of the Damned and Apocalypse have not merely similar, but IDENTICAL stats aside from the Artifact bonuses. So from a base function perspective (e.g. Dungeons, Heroic Dungeons, Mythic Dungeons, World Bosses, Quests, and bosses on farm) they are essentially interchangeable.

    Druid, if you're double Feral, it's Fangs of Ashamane and Claws of Ursoc. Again, we see that the base and secondary stats between them are identical. Making them completely usable in the "wrong" spec.

    The net takeaway is this: juggling two is an issue. But leveling an artifact off-spec will not be a huge deal. This also means it will be easier for certain combinations (DK Blood/Unholy, Druid Feral^2, Priest-SPriest, Shaman Ele-Resto) to level their artifacts quickly through queue and LFR using Tank and Healer instaqueues.

  • KlivKliv Member

    Hi drive-by comment. You can only use the artifact weapon in the spec it's designated for, so you can't, for example, use Claws of Ursoc in feral spec.

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