Anytime you want to manually edit the client.cfg make sure you stop the program (client).
Gui should be machineID=1 and console should be machineID=2
The only flags I recommend for now are -advmethods -forcesse
Sally, you didn't edit the name on the other computers did you? I was just wondering if during all of your work you 'happened' to change the name on all of the boxes. It would be an understandable 'mistake'.
My apologies for not getting back to you before now. As i suspected my computer was getting ready to crash and sure enough it did........grrrr!!!
I had just completed all the appropriate changes.......set the GUI as Jonhandbrake and machineid=1 and typed in the properties -config flag on the console and this made it available to change the username=Jonshandbrake and machineid=2.......so I was just patting myself on the back for a job well done and was about to post my results back here.......and boooom!!!! Blue screen of death.......Hard system error and no return from there.
Puta has been in hospital most of the week.......consensus is from the repairer I had too many functions conflicting with each other.
Bought puta home and deleted my ram program and whatever else the Puta repairman advised including the console F@H4......puta has been running quite smoothly for 24 hours now......so have decided to give the console another go.......Everything seems OK for now.........Could I have your opinion on what I was advised..e.g. two F@H units conflicting with each other.
Also does any one know about the program WinXP Manager........I have downloaded a trial version of it but not too sure on how to set it up....Will start up another thread on this query....
So at this moment in time puta is back home and appears to be quite happy for now. I am folding 2 units on my pc as we speak......so I am a happy little vegemite...today.......LOL!!! (happy little vegemite .... ozzie slang)
I'd avoid any tweaking programs until you get the system rock stable. Try running HijackThis, then post the log here. We could better advise you on stuff you might want to turn off.
As far as running multiple clients, there are others here who know more about getting that to work than I will ever know. I'll leave that part of your question to them.
As requested here is a log of Hijack this. I haven't changed anything....quite frankly wouldn't know where to start.......LOL!!
However I do have spybot S&D on my system and use it atleast twice a week...in fact used it yesterday after I got my system back and it found quite a few nasties.........which I don't know how they got there, unless the repairer went looking around and downloaded something???......don't have a clue.....anyway Spybot did it's little thing.
Anyway heres the log....It's a biggy hope you can make head or tail out of it.....
Logfile of HijackThis v1.97.7
Scan saved at 11:04:01 PM, on 27/02/2004
Platform: Windows XP SP1 (WinNT 5.01.2600)
MSIE: Internet Explorer v6.00 SP1 (6.00.2800.1106)
If you have a client that needs to run with multiple users and runs with only one user, you can do one of two things:
Easiest GUI way to get a universal running client, WITH a taskbar icon to get you client control with a right-click on taskbar icon that will be next to clock, is this:
In the Documents and Settings subtree of XP, descend to the following place based on the user the client actually runs on now. Use My Computer or find files and folders. You want the icon for the program in this subtree, as a copy source. I will use my user as an example:
E:\Documents and Settings\John-Admin\Start Menu\Programs\Startup (you probably want drive C instead of E, I have a boot redirect in place right now)
Highlight the Folding@home 4.00 icon, clikc once. With keyboard, type CTRL-C (hold down CTRL key, tap C key, release both).
I also have a normal user, Iwant the client to run when I logon as that user also, so I do this (the icon and its properites are in the Windows cut-n-paste buffer right now):
I go to:
C:\Documents and Settings\John-normal\Start Menu\Programs\Startup
(I changed E to C here and in all following paths)
with keyboard, press CTRL-V.
If you have other users on box and you want to have it in all users, substitute each user name in this pass, and repeat the CTRL-V.
That gets you an active process icon in each user area, program will start when each user logs in, same instance all the time. Logout stops the run (if you forget to right-clisk plus click quit the icon near to clock in taskbar, you may lose some work, client will resume from last CP point it saved), next login restarts it.
To always have it run, but not have a taskbar icon, you can instead simply move the icon from the first place to the following place:
C:\Documents and Settings\All Users\Start Menu\Programs\Startup
Client will run, user login does not matter now, but you will have to look at the logs to tell what client is doing, and you will need to first set your CP time to a smaller value to not have client repeat too much work every time a user logs out and another logs in-- this is potential, in fact what happens is that if you run teh program as administrator and stick icon in all users, then the only way to kill client is to shutdown or reboot box or rerstart Windows. I have done both, one each for over a week each, works fine either way, you just lose the GUI functions of the client this way-- it runs as a console service would,a nomral service-- but you do not have to explicitly run it as one.
Your choice. This idea of user-relative or non-user-relative autostartup can be applied to any program you have. The more you run all the time, the more system resources get used all the time. Either method (process set) will leave you with only one client copy running at a time.
Try to do both methods on same box, you will get client yelling that two copies cannot run at once. Now, I need to ask a question. Do you have the 64 bit version of Windows or the 32 bit 1-2 CPU version??? That answer will determine how to get multiple copies of client running on one box in part, so I need that info.
John D.
0
witenoiz19,356 miles East of Kansas City, MOMember
edited February 2004
I wish I had some of this information when I started. Muddocktor and ageek have posted some information here that although I have some questions should be in a thread entitled "How to set Windows or Linux or whatever you run to FOLD" So now I have a new MB with HyperThreading and 1 gig of memory and I have tried most of the above advice to jonshandbrake so I do have 2 instances of console Fah4 Exe with no conflict. But man is this slow.... 10 minutes a frame..... I moved one of the folders over to my second hard drive to see if it would run faster - still 10 minutes per frame - Makes me think I should have bought 2 more Barton 2500's instead of a P4 2.8c GHz 800 MHz FSB 512 k. I don't think you can change settings in the no nonsense console so on each box as they finish and send to Stanford I am going to delete and start over. Looks like I'll be babysitting for a week. The MB is an Asus P4P8X SE Jack
0
witenoiz19,356 miles East of Kansas City, MOMember
edited February 2004
I am so sorry, I thought this thread was about folding at home with Hyper Threading. I must have worded my comment incorrectly - I should have stayed on topic about Hyper Threading with F@H!!!
Jack
0
witenoiz19,356 miles East of Kansas City, MOMember
edited February 2004
If you look at what information is now in 2 threads - and get confused, that's ok!! None of what is contained from my post is anywhere near what I was inferring. I mentioned a thread should be started to show new members AND myself what answers are best in their experiance on first setting up whatever you download. I was NOT asking for advice on how to set my mess up - as I mentioned - muddocktor pretty much had the information that I am changing on all of my boxes and blades. Ageek had some instructions for steps I want to take in the near future. Almost everybody asked how long it was taking per frame and was I running 1 or 2 instances. DOH! I said 10 minutes each - even moved one to the second hard drive - still 10 minutes. I have stopped 1 on my HT box and the time is cut in half. But that is way off topic We have moderators, and in this case I don't care if you edit and move this reply - my question/request was for a member with the knowledge to put in simple terms with an example how to set whatever version of F@H chosen to give optimal results. If I have a question, I am more than willing to start a new thread, with as much information that I know and post it.
I think Keebs is in the process of revamping the "Tutorials, FAQ, and Guides" section of our Everything about F@H page.
You raise some good points, witenoiz. As HT becomes more popular it is going to be necessary to pay more attention to setup concerns. Any personal stats you lucky souls with the heavy (HT) artillery provide would be wonderful. :thumbup
If you look at what information is now in 2 threads - and get confused, that's ok!! None of what is contained from my post is anywhere near what I was inferring. I mentioned a thread should be started to show new members AND myself what answers are best in their experiance on first setting up whatever you download. I was NOT asking for advice on how to set my mess up - as I mentioned - muddocktor pretty much had the information that I am changing on all of my boxes and blades. Ageek had some instructions for steps I want to take in the near future. Almost everybody asked how long it was taking per frame and was I running 1 or 2 instances. DOH! I said 10 minutes each - even moved one to the second hard drive - still 10 minutes. I have stopped 1 on my HT box and the time is cut in half. But that is way off topic We have moderators, and in this case I don't care if you edit and move this reply - my question/request was for a member with the knowledge to put in simple terms with an example how to set whatever version of F@H chosen to give optimal results. If I have a question, I am more than willing to start a new thread, with as much information that I know and post it.
Comments
Gui should be machineID=1 and console should be machineID=2
The only flags I recommend for now are -advmethods -forcesse
I had just completed all the appropriate changes.......set the GUI as Jonhandbrake and machineid=1 and typed in the properties -config flag on the console and this made it available to change the username=Jonshandbrake and machineid=2.......so I was just patting myself on the back for a job well done and was about to post my results back here.......and boooom!!!! Blue screen of death.......Hard system error and no return from there.
Puta has been in hospital most of the week.......consensus is from the repairer I had too many functions conflicting with each other.
Bought puta home and deleted my ram program and whatever else the Puta repairman advised including the console F@H4......puta has been running quite smoothly for 24 hours now......so have decided to give the console another go.......Everything seems OK for now.........Could I have your opinion on what I was advised..e.g. two F@H units conflicting with each other.
Also does any one know about the program WinXP Manager........I have downloaded a trial version of it but not too sure on how to set it up....Will start up another thread on this query....
So at this moment in time puta is back home and appears to be quite happy for now. I am folding 2 units on my pc as we speak......so I am a happy little vegemite...today.......LOL!!! (happy little vegemite .... ozzie slang)
Sally
As far as running multiple clients, there are others here who know more about getting that to work than I will ever know. I'll leave that part of your question to them.
However I do have spybot S&D on my system and use it atleast twice a week...in fact used it yesterday after I got my system back and it found quite a few nasties.........which I don't know how they got there, unless the repairer went looking around and downloaded something???......don't have a clue.....anyway Spybot did it's little thing.
Anyway heres the log....It's a biggy hope you can make head or tail out of it.....
Logfile of HijackThis v1.97.7
Scan saved at 11:04:01 PM, on 27/02/2004
Platform: Windows XP SP1 (WinNT 5.01.2600)
MSIE: Internet Explorer v6.00 SP1 (6.00.2800.1106)
Running processes:
C:\WINDOWS\System32\smss.exe
C:\WINDOWS\system32\winlogon.exe
C:\WINDOWS\system32\services.exe
C:\WINDOWS\system32\lsass.exe
C:\WINDOWS\System32\Ati2evxx.exe
C:\WINDOWS\system32\svchost.exe
C:\WINDOWS\System32\svchost.exe
C:\WINDOWS\System32\brsvc01a.exe
C:\WINDOWS\System32\brss01a.exe
C:\WINDOWS\system32\spoolsv.exe
C:\Program Files\Common Files\Symantec Shared\ccEvtMgr.exe
C:\WINDOWS\System32\CTsvcCDA.exe
C:\PROGRA~1\NORTON~1\NORTON~2\GHOSTS~2.EXE
C:\Program Files\Norton SystemWorks\Norton AntiVirus\navapsvc.exe
C:\Program Files\Norton SystemWorks\Norton Utilities\NPROTECT.EXE
C:\PROGRA~1\NORTON~1\SPEEDD~1\nopdb.exe
C:\WINDOWS\System32\svchost.exe
C:\WINDOWS\System32\Tablet.exe
C:\WINDOWS\system32\ZoneLabs\vsmon.exe
C:\WINDOWS\System32\MsPMSPSv.exe
C:\WINDOWS\system32\Ati2evxx.exe
C:\WINDOWS\Explorer.EXE
C:\Program Files\ATI Technologies\ATI Control Panel\atiptaxx.exe
C:\Program Files\Common Files\Symantec Shared\ccApp.exe
C:\Program Files\Norton SystemWorks\Norton Ghost\GhostStartTrayApp.exe
C:\Program Files\Microsoft Hardware\Keyboard\type32.exe
C:\Program Files\Creative\SBAudigy2\Surround Mixer\CTSysVol.exe
C:\Program Files\Creative\SBAudigy2\DVDAudio\CTDVDDet.EXE
C:\WINDOWS\System32\CTHELPER.EXE
C:\Program Files\Microsoft IntelliPoint\point32.exe
C:\Program Files\Caere\OmniPagePro90\opware32.exe
C:\WINDOWS\System32\ewmemwbu.exe
C:\WINDOWS\System32\ctfmon.exe
C:\Program Files\Creative\MediaSource\Detector\CTDetect.exe
C:\WINDOWS\system32\ntvdm.exe
C:\Program Files\Creative\MediaSource\Go\CTCMSGo.exe
C:\Program Files\FontLoader\FontLoader.exe
C:\PROGRA~1\MAILWA~1\MAILWA~1.EXE
C:\Program Files\MSN Messenger\MsnMsgr.Exe
C:\Documents and Settings\All Users\Start Menu\Programs\Startup\ET4Tray.exe
C:\Program Files\CA\eTrust EZ Armor\eTrust EZ Firewall\ca.exe
C:\Program Files\Gigabyte\Gigabyte Windows Utility Manager\gwum.exe
C:\Program Files\PC-TV\WinManager\WinManager.exe
C:\DOWNLOADS\trayit\trayit!.exe
C:\Folding 2\winFAH.exe
C:\PROGRA~1\INCRED~1\bin\ImApp.exe
C:\Folding 2\FahCore_78.exe
C:\Documents and Settings\Owner\Start Menu\Programs\Startup\FAH4Console.exe
C:\Documents and Settings\Owner\Start Menu\Programs\Startup\FahCore_78.exe
C:\PROGRA~1\INCRED~1\bin\IncMail.exe
C:\Program Files\Internet Explorer\IEXPLORE.EXE
C:\Program Files\Internet Explorer\IEXPLORE.EXE
C:\DOWNLOADS\HijackThis.exe
R1 - HKCU\Software\Microsoft\Internet Explorer\Main,Search Bar = about:blank
R0 - HKCU\Software\Microsoft\Internet Explorer\Main,Start Page = http://www.iprimus.com.au/
R1 - HKCU\Software\Microsoft\Internet Explorer\Search,SearchAssistant = about:blank
R1 - HKCU\Software\Microsoft\Internet Explorer\Main,Start Page_bak = http://www.iprimus.com.au/
O2 - BHO: (no name) - {06849E9F-C8D7-4D59-B87D-784B7D6BE0B3} - C:\Program Files\Adobe\Acrobat 6.0\Reader\ActiveX\AcroIEHelper.dll
O2 - BHO: (no name) - {53707962-6F74-2D53-2644-206D7942484F} - C:\PROGRA~1\SPYBOT~1\SDHelper.dll
O2 - BHO: (no name) - {AA58ED58-01DD-4d91-8333-CF10577473F7} - c:\program files\google\googletoolbar1.dll
O2 - BHO: NAV Helper - {BDF3E430-B101-42AD-A544-FADC6B084872} - C:\Program Files\Norton SystemWorks\Norton AntiVirus\NavShExt.dll
O3 - Toolbar: &Radio - {8E718888-423F-11D2-876E-00A0C9082467} - C:\WINDOWS\System32\msdxm.ocx
O3 - Toolbar: Norton AntiVirus - {42CDD1BF-3FFB-4238-8AD1-7859DF00B1D6} - C:\Program Files\Norton SystemWorks\Norton AntiVirus\NavShExt.dll
O3 - Toolbar: &Google - {2318C2B1-4965-11d4-9B18-009027A5CD4F} - c:\program files\google\googletoolbar1.dll
O3 - Toolbar: Easy-WebPrint - {327C2873-E90D-4c37-AA9D-10AC9BABA46C} - C:\Program Files\Canon\Easy-WebPrint\Toolband.dll
O4 - HKLM\..\Run: [PRONoMgr.exe] C:\Program Files\Intel\NCS\PROSet\PRONoMgr.exe
O4 - HKLM\..\Run: [ATIPTA] C:\Program Files\ATI Technologies\ATI Control Panel\atiptaxx.exe
O4 - HKLM\..\Run: [ccApp] "C:\Program Files\Common Files\Symantec Shared\ccApp.exe"
O4 - HKLM\..\Run: [ccRegVfy] "C:\Program Files\Common Files\Symantec Shared\ccRegVfy.exe"
O4 - HKLM\..\Run: [GhostStartTrayApp] C:\Program Files\Norton SystemWorks\Norton Ghost\GhostStartTrayApp.exe
O4 - HKLM\..\Run: [IntelliType] "C:\Program Files\Microsoft Hardware\Keyboard\type32.exe"
O4 - HKLM\..\Run: [CTSysVol] C:\Program Files\Creative\SBAudigy2\Surround Mixer\CTSysVol.exe
O4 - HKLM\..\Run: [CTDVDDet] C:\Program Files\Creative\SBAudigy2\DVDAudio\CTDVDDet.EXE
O4 - HKLM\..\Run: [CTHelper] CTHELPER.EXE
O4 - HKLM\..\Run: [UpdReg] C:\WINDOWS\UpdReg.EXE
O4 - HKLM\..\Run: [CTStartup] "C:\Program Files\Creative\Splash Screen\CTEaxSpl.EXE" /run
O4 - HKLM\..\Run: [IntelliPoint] "C:\Program Files\Microsoft IntelliPoint\point32.exe"
O4 - HKLM\..\Run: [OmniPage] C:\Program Files\Caere\OmniPagePro90\opware32.exe
O4 - HKLM\..\Run: [emplhttk] C:\WINDOWS\System32\ewmemwbu.exe
O4 - HKCU\..\Run: [CTFMON.EXE] C:\WINDOWS\System32\ctfmon.exe
O4 - HKCU\..\Run: [FreeRAM XP] "C:\DOWNLOADS\framxpro\FreeRAM XP Pro 1.40.exe" -win
O4 - HKCU\..\Run: [Creative Detector] C:\Program Files\Creative\MediaSource\Detector\CTDetect.exe /R
O4 - HKCU\..\Run: [Creative MediaSource Go] C:\Program Files\Creative\MediaSource\Go\CTCMSGo.exe /SCB
O4 - HKCU\..\Run: [FontLoader] C:\Program Files\FontLoader\FontLoader.exe
O4 - HKCU\..\Run: [MailWasher] C:\PROGRA~1\MAILWA~1\MAILWA~1.EXE
O4 - HKCU\..\Run: [MsnMsgr] "C:\Program Files\MSN Messenger\MsnMsgr.Exe" /background
O4 - Startup: client.cfg
O4 - Startup: FAH4Console.exe
O4 - Startup: FahCore_78.exe
O4 - Startup: FAHlog.txt
O4 - Startup: Folding@home 4.00 No 2.lnk = C:\Folding 2\winFAH.exe
O4 - Startup: MyFolding.html
O4 - Startup: queue.dat
O4 - Startup: TrayIt!.lnk = trayit\trayit!.exe
O4 - Startup: unitinfo.txt
O4 - Global Startup: ET4Tray.exe
O4 - Global Startup: EZ Firewall.lnk = C:\Program Files\CA\eTrust EZ Armor\eTrust EZ Firewall\ca.exe
O4 - Global Startup: gwum.lnk = C:\Program Files\Gigabyte\Gigabyte Windows Utility Manager\gwum.exe
O4 - Global Startup: WinManager.lnk = C:\Program Files\PC-TV\WinManager\WinManager.exe
O6 - HKCU\Software\Policies\Microsoft\Internet Explorer\Restrictions present
O6 - HKCU\Software\Policies\Microsoft\Internet Explorer\Control Panel present
O8 - Extra context menu item: &Add animation to IncrediMail Style Box - C:\PROGRA~1\INCRED~1\bin\resources\WebMenuImg.htm
O8 - Extra context menu item: &Google Search - res://C:\Program Files\Google\GoogleToolbar1.dll/cmsearch.html
O8 - Extra context menu item: Backward &Links - res://C:\Program Files\Google\GoogleToolbar1.dll/cmbacklinks.html
O8 - Extra context menu item: Cac&hed Snapshot of Page - res://C:\Program Files\Google\GoogleToolbar1.dll/cmcache.html
O8 - Extra context menu item: Easy-WebPrint Add To Print List - res://C:\Program Files\Canon\Easy-WebPrint\Resource.dll/RC_AddToList.html
O8 - Extra context menu item: Easy-WebPrint High Speed Print - res://C:\Program Files\Canon\Easy-WebPrint\Resource.dll/RC_HSPrint.html
O8 - Extra context menu item: Easy-WebPrint Preview - res://C:\Program Files\Canon\Easy-WebPrint\Resource.dll/RC_Preview.html
O8 - Extra context menu item: Easy-WebPrint Print - res://C:\Program Files\Canon\Easy-WebPrint\Resource.dll/RC_Print.html
O8 - Extra context menu item: Si&milar Pages - res://C:\Program Files\Google\GoogleToolbar1.dll/cmsimilar.html
O8 - Extra context menu item: Translate into English - res://C:\Program Files\Google\GoogleToolbar1.dll/cmtrans.html
O9 - Extra button: Look for Spybot-S&&D updates (HKLM)
O9 - Extra 'Tools' menuitem: Look for Spybot-S&&D updates (HKLM)
O9 - Extra button: Related (HKLM)
O9 - Extra 'Tools' menuitem: Show &Related Links (HKLM)
O9 - Extra button: Messenger (HKLM)
O9 - Extra 'Tools' menuitem: Messenger (HKLM)
O16 - DPF: {01FE8D0A-51AD-459B-B62B-85E135128B32} (DD_v4.DDv4) - http://www.drivershq.com/DD_v4.CAB
O16 - DPF: {0A5FD7C5-A45C-49FC-ADB5-9952547D5715} (Creative Software AutoUpdate) - http://www.creative.com/SU/ocx/12119/CTSUEng.cab
O16 - DPF: {D27CDB6E-AE6D-11CF-96B8-444553540000} (Shockwave Flash Object) - http://download.macromedia.com/pub/shockwave/cabs/flash/swflash.cab
O16 - DPF: {F00F4763-7355-4725-82F7-0DA94A256D46} (IMDownloader Class) - http://www2.incredimail.com/contents/setup/downloader/imloader.cab
O16 - DPF: {F6ACF75C-C32C-447B-9BEF-46B766368D29} (Creative Software AutoUpdate Support Package) - http://www.creative.com/SU/ocx/12119/CTPID.cab
Thanks for all your help........OH by the way if you find anything wrong could you help with the mudmap on how to fix it please.
Sally
Startup entires in reg that are needed, are much simpler than what you have.
I bolded the needed entries, the rest are not needed really, if you use the right kind of icon:
O4 - Startup: client.cfg
O4 - Startup: FAH4Console.exe
O4 - Startup: FahCore_78.exe
O4 - Startup: FAHlog.txt
O4 - Startup: Folding@home 4.00 No 2.lnk = C:\Folding 2\winFAH.exe
O4 - Startup: MyFolding.html
O4 - Startup: queue.dat
If you have a client that needs to run with multiple users and runs with only one user, you can do one of two things:
Easiest GUI way to get a universal running client, WITH a taskbar icon to get you client control with a right-click on taskbar icon that will be next to clock, is this:
In the Documents and Settings subtree of XP, descend to the following place based on the user the client actually runs on now. Use My Computer or find files and folders. You want the icon for the program in this subtree, as a copy source. I will use my user as an example:
E:\Documents and Settings\John-Admin\Start Menu\Programs\Startup (you probably want drive C instead of E, I have a boot redirect in place right now)
Highlight the Folding@home 4.00 icon, clikc once. With keyboard, type CTRL-C (hold down CTRL key, tap C key, release both).
I also have a normal user, Iwant the client to run when I logon as that user also, so I do this (the icon and its properites are in the Windows cut-n-paste buffer right now):
I go to:
C:\Documents and Settings\John-normal\Start Menu\Programs\Startup
(I changed E to C here and in all following paths)
with keyboard, press CTRL-V.
If you have other users on box and you want to have it in all users, substitute each user name in this pass, and repeat the CTRL-V.
That gets you an active process icon in each user area, program will start when each user logs in, same instance all the time. Logout stops the run (if you forget to right-clisk plus click quit the icon near to clock in taskbar, you may lose some work, client will resume from last CP point it saved), next login restarts it.
To always have it run, but not have a taskbar icon, you can instead simply move the icon from the first place to the following place:
C:\Documents and Settings\All Users\Start Menu\Programs\Startup
Client will run, user login does not matter now, but you will have to look at the logs to tell what client is doing, and you will need to first set your CP time to a smaller value to not have client repeat too much work every time a user logs out and another logs in-- this is potential, in fact what happens is that if you run teh program as administrator and stick icon in all users, then the only way to kill client is to shutdown or reboot box or rerstart Windows. I have done both, one each for over a week each, works fine either way, you just lose the GUI functions of the client this way-- it runs as a console service would,a nomral service-- but you do not have to explicitly run it as one.
Your choice. This idea of user-relative or non-user-relative autostartup can be applied to any program you have. The more you run all the time, the more system resources get used all the time. Either method (process set) will leave you with only one client copy running at a time.
Try to do both methods on same box, you will get client yelling that two copies cannot run at once. Now, I need to ask a question. Do you have the 64 bit version of Windows or the 32 bit 1-2 CPU version??? That answer will determine how to get multiple copies of client running on one box in part, so I need that info.
John D.
Jack
You raise some good points, witenoiz. As HT becomes more popular it is going to be necessary to pay more attention to setup concerns. Any personal stats you lucky souls with the heavy (HT) artillery provide would be wonderful. :thumbup