Combo Wired/Wireless Home Network ; How to?

Spinner

Networking has never been my strong point so I just want to run a few things by you folk before I go and start buying stuff.

The setup is as follows: A standard wire router (hosting the ADSL internet connection) connecting to a desktop PC. There is only one accessible wire socket on the wire router.

This is what I want to be able to do: A laptop (with no spare cardbus slots, avoiding having to card swap if possible) needs to be able to connect wirelessly to that Internet connection.

I thought the two below configs were the best options. Also, taking the current wire router out of the equation is a no go.

PROPOSED SETUP 1:

Getting two wireless USB sticks allowing the desktop PC (which connects to the router via a standard wire network card) and the laptop to communicate. Which would in turn allow the laptop to connect to the Internet through the desktop PC. (That would work right? If I bridged the two LAN connections?)

PROPOSED SETUP 2:

Get another router/hub, but this time a wireless one, which could be uplinked to the existing wire router. Then get a wireless USB stick allowing the laptop to communicate with the new router, which in turn results in it being able to access the other router, and obviously then access the Internet. Presuming the new wireless router would have a standard wire socket, the desktop PC could remain connected up non-wirelessly. (Most wireless hubs have a least one wire socket right?)

Okay, so which one would work best, be the easiest to get working and be the most cost effective?

Thanks in advance.

KingFish

If it were me, I'd go for #2. Combo wired/wireless firewall/routers have come down in price tremendously the past year. With #1 it could be a pain to bridge the connections if you don't know that much about networking. If your main computer goes down for any reason, it effectively takes down the internet for two computers. You may also have a little trouble connecting with some services on your laptop going through yet another NAT (network address translation) node on your private network. IMO option #2 would come together with the least headaches and the price wouldn't be too bad either.

KingFish

Spinner

KingFish wrote:

If it were me, I'd go for #2. Combo wired/wireless firewall/routers have come down in price tremendously the past year. With #1 it could be a pain to bridge the connections if you don't know that much about networking. If your main computer goes down for any reason, it effectively takes down the internet for two computers. You may also have a little trouble connecting with some services on your laptop going through yet another NAT (network address translation) node on your private network. IMO option #2 would come together with the least headaches and the price wouldn't be too bad either.

KingFish

Okay great, but can I just confirm, most wireless routers will have non-wireless ports on as well yes? at least 1, otherwise I can't then connect the desktop PC to the Internet (Is there a seperate device for that job, a wireless access point? Is that what they're called?). As like I said I have only 1 port I can use on the wire-hub (Internet gateway), which will obviously then go to the wireless router. Or would I need to get a wireless device for the desktop PC aswell?

(p.s. Someone please change the thread title I made to something more informative like "Combo Wired/Wireless Home Network ; How to?" Thanks.)

KingFish

Here's a Linksys model with four wired ports plus wireless:
http://www.linksys.com/products/product.asp?grid=33&scid=35&prid=544

Here's a DLink one:
http://www.dlink.com/products/?pid=274

And, last but not least, a netgear one:
http://www.netgear.com/products/details/FWAG114.php

KingFish

fatcat

yea just get a wireless router with a 4-port 10/100 switch included. i like this one myself http://www.netgear.com/products/details/WGR614.php?view= but its up to u. here is the 54 Mbps Wireless USB 2.0 Adapter http://www.netgear.com/products/prod_details.php?prodID=243&view=

Spinner

Thanks for the links. I have one more question though. All their examples of connectivity only seem to describe setups where the wireless-wire combo router connects directly to a DSL modem, it doesn't seem to mention whether it will be able to connect through another router to get to the Internet Gateway. I mean, on a basic wired network using hubs, it's easy peasy to daisy chain them, or uplink them together, but is it just as easy with these slightly more advanced devices?

I've illustrated what I think should work going by what you've said. Will this work?

Madball

Get a wireless router like Kingfish suggested and do away with your current router. It would be of no use to you since you would be able to connect four computers wired and probably your laptop wirelessly.

Madball

Yes just like your picture.

fatcat

router + router = more complicated...

ur picture is right on, cept is ur dsl modem also a router?..most modems are just that...a modem...with the one cat5/usb port for connecting to single nic/usb or router

Spinner

fatcat wrote:

router + router = more complicated...

ur picture is right on, cept is ur dsl modem also a router?..most modems are just that...a modem...with the one cat5/usb port for connecting to single nic/usb or router

Well it's not my setup, it's my dads. I can't do away with the existing router (or whatever), for numerous reasons, mainly to do with the company in charge of his Internet connection. Under normal circumstances, obviously yeah, ditch the wires only router and just replace it with the wireless one, but that can't be done.

As far as the exact device currently in use is concerned, when I think about it, I suspect it is more than likely more of the modem variety than the router, but I haven't seen it with my own eyes so I can't confirm its exact specifications. But if I understand you correctly F'C, you're saying if it is just a DSL modem with just a CAT5 ouput port, that makes things easier then?

When I think about it, it really should just be a modem with CAT5 based network connectivity. But even if it does have router functionality, I don't have to use that do I, I should just be able to connect directly to the modem part of it shouldn't I? (Sorry I'm thinking out loud).

You'll have to forgive me, I'm so used to using DSL modems that just connect via USB and require PC based log on. I keep forgetting that's not exactly the norm on the global scale of things. You can thank British Telecom for that.

fatcat

whats the back of this mystery device look like?..

if your modem is also a router...it will be more complicated adding a 2nd router as far as config with IP's/port's etc. if ur modem is just a modem then adding a router is a piece of cake

Spinner

fatcat wrote:

whats the back of this mystery device look like?..

ok...lemme find some pics brb

I haven't even seen the back. A CAT5 cable is run down from its location in my dads loft to a network socket.

fatcat

network socket? if u mean a jack on the wall u plug ur cat5 into then u will need to ask ur dad what kind of setup he has. he could possibly already have a router and only allowing u 1 port. if thats the case then i think a switch might be better for you, but a router might work also. need more info i think.

Spinner

fatcat wrote:

network socket? if u mean a jack on the wall u plug ur cat5 into then u will need to ask ur dad what kind of setup he has. he could possibly already have a router and only allowing u 1 port. if thats the case then i think a switch might be better for you. need more info i think

He doesn't know jack, and yes I did mean a jack on the wall u plug ur cat5 cable into.. and yes I only have one port to work with, the one belonging to that wall socket. I can't touch the currently in place mystery device. All I know is, that when I plug a CAT5 into the wall socket, a CAT5 which has its other end plugged into a PC, that PC has automatic Internet access, providing that is of course its I.P and DNS look up is set to automatic.

fatcat

Spinner wrote:

He doesn't know jack, and yes I did mean a jack on the wall u plug ur cat5 cable into.. and yes I only have one port to work with, the one belonging to that wall socket. I can't touch the currently in place mystery device. All I know is, that when I plug a CAT5 into the wall socket, a CAT5 which has its other end plugged into a PC, that PC has automatic Internet access, providing that is of course its I.P and DNS look up is set to automatic.

then most likely he's already using a router, and giving you 1 port on it to use. if you got another router for what u want to do is probably possible, but as far as configuration of it is beyond my knowledge. ive never used a router connected to another router before. hopefully someone can give you some insight on that. sorry.

KingFish

If you already have a router and you must use it, I wouldn't recommend putting another router on it. Add a cheap 5 port switch and a wireless access point and you're in business on the cheap. It's nearly the exact same setup I have at home here in Lousyana except I am now sporting a 24 port switch (thanks to hotrodsun's excellent deal) instead of a 5 port one. I even have two five port switches laying around here doing nothing but collecting dust. I'd make you a good deal on one except for the $28968326 in shipping charges that we'd incur.

KingFish

fatcat

KingFish wrote:

If you already have a router and you must use it, I wouldn't recommend putting another router on it. Add a cheap 5 port switch and a wireless access point and you're in business on the cheap.

KingFish

yes, what he said!...wireless access point work good..

so it would be jack>switch>wireless access point

see l33t paint pic

Madball

That's a work of art FatCat.

maggie99635

I have a Linksys WRT45G it has 4 wired ports. I put a wireless mini pci 54G card in my laptop. When I started a couple of years ago I was using a LinksysBEFSR41 wired router and then put 11b wireless router(DHCP disabled) hooked to a port of the Linksys,
the wireless router only had one wired port and I had three computers, and had a 11b PC Card sticking out the side of the laptop.

I like the WRT54G hookup better. Less clutter and faster.
Wireless routers are cheaper than access points. Most of the routers can have the DHCP disabled but then getting into them to reconfigure is harder. I have had good luck mine ran for almost two years without having to mess with it. Still works.

KingFish

You beat me to it fatcat. Nice, very nice. Someone get the frame to hang that one on the wall.

KingFish

Spinner

Okay, Fatcat, great sketch. That's told me everything I need to know. I'll try and get the necessary gear and install it today. Thanks for all your help guys. Appreciate it. I'll post back when I can't get it to work.

Spinner

Okay, so I've setup the stuff as the beautifully illustrated diagram by Fatcat shows. Everything works fine as it should, except for the Wireless Access Point. It communicates fine with the Laptops Wireless USB stick (they are both the same standard 'b'), I get signal strength and all the stuff registering. I just can't get the laptop to access the Internet. If I plug the Laptop directly using a wire into the switch, then everything works great, I just can't get it to work wirelessly.

Also, I'm supposed to be able to configure the AP by means of through the LAN as well as through USB (which is used soley for config purposes). I can only access the AP's settings through USB. It detects the AP when trying to access its settings through the LAN, but can't connect. That isn't that big of a deal, because I can still configure it through USB. But it seems a bit strange that I can't do it through the LAN aswell.

I've posted below an image of the config settings window for the AP. Can anyone suggest where I'm going wrong with regard to Internet access for the laptop. Like I said, the laptops wireless USB stick registers a LAN connection, as does Windows but I can't get Internet access to work accross it.

I was thinking that perhaps I needed to input the Gateway I.P address? if that's the case, then how do I obtain that from the Internet Gateway hosting router in the loft?

I'm going back to have another shot at getting it all working tomorrow morning. If any of you guys could help me figure out what I'm doing wrong, I would be extremely gratefull.

Thanks in advance.

Cheers

qparadox

I believe you need to enable the dhcp client. From the looks of it your AP is currently working in static IP mode and not getting an IP from your other router. Thus when your laptop connects to the AP there's no network bridge to your wired network. What's the IP of your wired router? (quickest way to find this is probably typing doing "cmd ipconfig" on one of your wired windoze box. The "gateway" IP will likely be your wired router IP, post that here).

Also post what ipconfig prints out when you do it on your laptop connected through the wireless AP.

Spinner

Thanks for the reply. Well I won't be back at that setup till tomorrow now. So I can't do anything on it at the moment. I'm just trying to get ideas together so I can go in full force tomorrow morning and get that sucker working. I shall do as you suggested though. I was hesitant to enable DCHP on the AP in fear it would conflict with the wired routers I.P assignment (the one hosting the Internet gateway). I don't really understand what the hell DCHP does, but I always thought that only one DCHP client on a LAN should be running at any given time.

Spinner

Okay well I've given up. Came to have another crack at it this morning but the DSL connection isn't even working now. I don't know why it's not, but I can't do anything about it till the company who set it up sorts it out. I'm gonna take all the gear my dad bought back.

I was thinking though... I already have a wireless card for the laptop, if I got one for the desktop PC (the PC that when the DSL is working again, will connect directly via a network cable to the access point in the loft), would the laptop be able to communicate wirelessly with the PC and then access the DSL connection through it that way?

EDIT: When taking the wireless AP and network switch back to the shop, the guy there told me that I really need to use a wireless router, and that it will be easy as pie to set up. I'm not so sure. He said none the less he'd ring me tomorrow to have a chat about the whole thing. Nice guy. I however, after two whole days of trying to get these things working, am royally back to square one. No gear, no operating DSL internet connection and no energy.

To think I'm gonna have to try all over again come Monday. Why are these things so hard to setup? I hate networking! I hate it with a passion!

Spinner

Well, after days of persistent trying, I couldn't get any of it to work properly. I couldn't even get a basic network switch to function for any period of time. The fellow who set up the DSL access for my father seems committed to making sure only one computer will work on the line at any given time.

So yea, failure on all fronts.

Let this thread forever act as a testimony, that I, Spinner, Jon Scott, am completely inept at anything but basic network configurations. This is why I'll never get a job as a network engineer. This is why I never want to touch another network again. I hate networking! With a passion! But I've already said that haven't I.

You live, you learn, you move on. All be it in a very un-inspiring frustrated way.

Cheers