Now what is it I need to do?

neverfastenough

I am taking the leap of setting up my first RAID array on my new system I'm building.(Newbie here). I understand, (I think) how the setup goes in the bios and how to get it started but there are some questions I am hoping you pros can maybe answer for me. I guess first off let me tell you the specs on the system I will be building to give you some information to work with.

motherboard = MSI K8T Neo-FIS2R Via K8T800
board specifics for RAID= Serial ATA RAID 0, 1 (SB), Serial ATA RAID 0, 1, 0+1, ATA 133 RAID (Promise)

processor= AMD 64 3200+

hard drives = 2x Maxtor DiamondMax Plus 9 6Y080M0 80GB Serial ATA 7200RPM Hard Drive w/8MB Buffer
1x Maxtor DiamondMax 40 GB 7200rpm ATA 133 2mb buffer.

memory= 2x Corsair XMS 512 3200LLPRO

Operating System= XP PRO SP1

Now the questions I have are as follows:
1. Do I install the operating sytems on my RAID array or Do i install it on the single drive (7200 w 2mb buffer).

2. I have read that it's best to use the raid array for programs(games) and the single for storage/back up. Is this true?

3. If I do have a failure on my array, and my o/s is on it, how much trouble will it be using XP, to reload it from the backup or storage drive, or can I even do that with XP?

4. I will be using this system for gaming mostly 90% at least, Is a Raid 0 array the way to go for that?

5. Also what size stripping should I use for gaming, I have heard 32 and 64 are best for gaming is that true?

6. When setting partition size, I want one partition. Is this the best/easiest way to go?

This should bring to light, what I have been in the dark about. Any advise will be appreciated greatly, and sorry to ask what seems like stupid questions to some of you, but I won't ever know if I don't ask! :smiles:

This Newbie Thanks you in advance!

mmonnin

2.)The files you use the most are the OS and program files so it benefit you the most be putting that in the array.

The rest others can answer better.

neverfastenough

Thanks much for your reply, maybe some others will be kind enough to lend some expertise on the other questions.

drasnor

I have your system's big brother, (MSI K8T Master2-FAR), but most of what I've experienced will probably be true since we have the same motherboard chipset.

1. I've installed XP 32-bit on my SATA RAID. I also installed 2k Pro on my 7200RPM 8MB cache ATA100 drive with ATTO and benchmarked the array until I found a setup that yielded optimum general performance. The stripe size and cluster size really depends on what kind of hard drives you get. Just plug 'em in and play with ATTO booted from the ATA controller until you find a setting you like. For some reason, my array benches best at 16K stripes and 4K clusters.

2. The best would be to run a RAID 0+1 between four hard drives, but that isn't going to happen using the motherboard RAID controller. I've settled for putting everything on my RAID and then doing volume shadow backups to my ATA drive. Volume Shadowing compresses all your stuff, so 300 GB of files may compress down and fit into 250GB of backup space. It works for me.

3. If your RAID fails, you're screwed. Use Automatic System Restore backups to have a full disk image of your RAID saved on your backup drive, and if your RAID fails all you have to do is put in your emergency floppy and Windows CD.

4. Yes. If you don't want to mess with frequent backups, you can disable the RAID functionality of the 8237 RAID controller and make it behave like a normal SATA controller. You won't have a RAID so it'll be only as fast as your hard drives, but you won't have to worry about losing data unless your drive fails catastrophically.

5. Depends on what drives and controllers you have. Like I said, mine works best in 16k stripes and 4k clusters. Reminder: stripe size is set in the RAID BIOS when you create the array, cluster size is set when you create partitions on the array and format them (in Windows).

6. Not sure. As far as speed goes, yes. However, I have my program files and XP install on a different partition from my data, just in case I get a nasty virus that wipes out the systemroot partition. It's a personal preference thing. If you're so inclined, NTFS has this neat feature where you can mount a partition as a folder (a la Linux), so your computer might have a partition for swap, windows, program files, and user directories and have them all mounted in their respective folders in the root filesystem. It's documented in the Disk Management panel in your Computer Management Administrative Tool in Windows 2k/XP.

A couple of quick notes:
Some people have had trouble using that type of RAM in Athlon64 systems. My trouble went away when I raised the voltage to 2.65V, but my Opterons use a different memory controller than you.

I am far from a RAID expert. You will want to post your RAID question in the Storage forum, as some of the people in there are like mini-deities of RAID and storage (like Tex).

-drasnor

neverfastenough

Ok that's a very good start. I have read and searched and searched some more on how well the raid controller works that comes onboard the motherboard. Most reports were very good, however specifics were not there as far as how it was setup. So if anyone has this board and has basically the same setup it would help hughly on the amount setup time I will be facing. The memory suggestion is very good also, since this is my first 64bit board and first time setting up a RAID, if you notice anything wrong with my choice of hardware please feel free to say so. I found a post somewhere of somebody that had the exact same board, processor, vcard, etc. etc.
and he listed that particular memory and was very pleased. However there again no memory timing or voltage setting were listed. Do I need to repost this in the Storage/Harddrive section myself or can it be moved? Thx a ton for taking the time to help!!

drasnor

VIA 8237 RAID is pretty easy to set up. Just download your motherboard manual and read through it to get the details.

BTW, what are you planning to do with that Promise controller? It probably won't be nearly as fast as your Southbridge RAID.

-drasnor

neverfastenough

The manual suggestion is right on time! I don't know what I'm going to do with it. Here is the link for specifics for the RAIDs controllers, if you get time, tell me what you would do with the MB based on what it will be mainly used for.
http://www.msicomputer.com/product/p_spec.asp?model=K8T_Neo-FIS2R&class=mb
Here are the HD specs again.
I had planned on using two Maxtor 80 Gig. 7200 rpm 8mb buffer SATA drives (brand new). for a RAID 0 config. One WD 40 Gig ATA 100 7200 rpm 2 mb buffer to use as backup and storage. At least that was the plan. Suggestions on a better way to use the 3 harddrives I am planning to use? I am very good at backing up and defraging my system, some might say I go a little over board, but I figure better safe than sorry. Like I said in my first post, I am totally new to using or setting up a RAID array, but I got to start somewhere. Especially after reading how the performance improves so much using it.
The ram issue you mentioned in your previous reply I have been checking into. It seems this board is very picky on the voltages and timing, but I have done lots of that so shouldn't be a problem to work that end of it out. It seems to be when you go beyond the 512mb barrier, is where you start to experience problems . So that said I will be spend some more time investigating what will be best. LOL the more I learn the more I realize how little I know!!! This forum is KICK A%$!!! I do appreciate all the input you have given thus far . Hopefully one day I will be posting to help someone else as my experience level improves. I can't wait to get all my parts in and get this put together. I'll post complete specs later and let me know what ya think. I am using quality parts in all aspects and hopefully that will make the build a bit easier, although more expensive. Thanks Drasnor and all.

Straight_Man

Ok, let's talk about RAID use:

First, you typically do not want corruption in an O\S immediately copied onto a mirror which would be then corrupt also. You DO want your work protected, an perhaps the tools you use to do that work that you have created, and your system settings would be nice to have.

To accomplish that goal, you need to decide how to do this. So, lets define what HAS to be abcked up, which a mirroring will do very well for you:

Work product, emails you archive like recepts for web purchases, trackign numbers, and your accounting records, graphics you have, your documents of writing you do, if a student your homework, things you have a hard time putting back onto system. Now, lets add these:

Driver updates, as archives, for restoration later.
Security packs you keep in use.
Program upgrades you have need to recover later if box main HD dies.
archives of programs you want to use a lot that you download on the web.

But, the core O\S itself need not be mirrored. With XP, back up your system state to the mirrored volume religiously once you know it is stable. THAT gets you a registry copy, among other things.

To recover your O\S, you then reload it from CD, reestablish the major system drivers, (the SATA and motherboard dribvers get burned to CD, and updates you keep also get burned to CD unless you want to go on the web for drivers AFTER you reinstall your AV software AND update it-- AV updates are FTP to known servers, AV knows where, do NOT browse until after your AV is functional these days). Then, the rest can be reloaded from the mirror array.

So, I would do this:

Use smaller HD for XP, and stick core applications and the rest on your mirrored raid array. INSTALL them TO the RAID array, not to your boot drive. Recovering your system state will get registry locations for them back once th eRAID array is up. This is why I use plain mirroring when I RAID plus backups of real critical stuff to CD-RW or CD-R depending on criticalness to ME. Mirror array can be set up real simply, less time to reestablish your array than with a complex array. Easier to remember with less record keeping to know exactly how to restore, also. copmplex type arrays need to be doced as to what is where to reset them preciely as was so you get array back intact.

Simple mirror is storage devices and almost pure hardware and system drivers and BIOS settings. Ideal for a RAID beginner.

John D.

neverfastenough

[/QUOTE=AGEEK]
So, I would do this:

Use smaller HD for XP, and stick core applications and the rest on your mirrored raid array. INSTALL them TO the RAID array, not to your boot drive. Recovering your system state will get registry locations for them back once th eRAID array is up. This is why I use plain mirroring when I RAID plus backups of real critical stuff to CD-RW or CD-R depending on criticalness to ME. Mirror array can be set up real simply, less time to reestablish your array than with a complex array. Easier to remember with less record keeping to know exactly how to restore, also. copmplex type arrays need to be doced as to what is where to reset them preciely as was so you get array back intact.

Simple mirror is storage devices and almost pure hardware and system drivers and BIOS settings. Ideal for a RAID beginner.

John D.[/QUOTE]


Simple Mirror? I need some reading material to get with all the lingo. I thought that a RAID 1 was mirror but RAID 0 didn't mirror that was reason for having to backup freguently. Sorry to be so thick headed :banghead:

I will read my mb raid manual, I have read some already. Plus read thru the section discussing RAID in the section here in this forum.

I may decide to go with another RAID array other than 0. At least for my first go at it. The people here at this forum seem to be top notch and I will have a lot of catching up to do to be able to follow you guys on everything, "if that will ever be possible " Sorry for the delay in reply to your thread, life is BUSY! "In Tenn. Working Tail Off" lol to borrow your phrase. thanks again, Keith P.