question about cpu and mem

entropy

i have a 2.8c now running at 3.0. i have 1 stick of corsair value 512 ram. now, right now my cpu host freq. is set to 214 in my bios. a few lines down it tells me memory host freq. (or something like that, not sure) is 428. the problem is, as soon as i change the cpu to 215, the memory host freq. goes down to 357. do i have to oc the ram somehow by changing the timings? right now i believe they're set at 2.5-7-3-3 (will double check on that) and the spd is 2.5-8-3-3 (again, i will double check that in a minute). i've heard about this 1:1 and 4:5 stuff, but i didn't/don't really understand it, cuz i couldn't find a decent guide. please help me clear this up. thnx!

[oh, and for whatever miraculous reason, whether oc'ing or just changing that first number...my ram is perfect now:D lol]

mmonnin

OK I think I know whats happening. You you oc up to 214 FSb the CPU:RAM ratio is 1:1 meaning they are the same, 214:214 MHz. For some reason when you change the FSB (host CPU freq) to 215 that ratio gets set to 6:5 which is equal to 215:178(the RAm speed, 357 is the DDR speed, double pumped).

There might be some settings in your BIOS to set the CPU:RAM ratio to 1:1 depending on your motherboard.

I am guessing you have PC3200? And what motherboard?

And for Intel CPUs with 800MHx FSb like your 2.4C 2 sticks is a necessity. You only have half the bandwidth you could have since The P4 C CPUs have dual channel on the motherboards.

muddocktor

entr0py, you didn't list which mobo your rig has but it sounds like the memory interface is set to auto and is automatically going from a 1:1 ratio to a 4:5 ratio, like mmonnin has said. If you want to try running that memory in synch with the fsb, you will need to manually set the memory speed to 1:1 ratio.

Also like mmonnin said, if that is a 865 or 875 chipset mobo that has DC memory capability, you will see a nice boost in performance by getting another stick the same size and speed as your present DDR and running the board in DC mode.

entropy

sry guys, mobo is gigabyte ga8ipe1000L revision 2, pc3200 ram. i'll look around again for a ratio or to change it to manual. however, i literally have about $60 to my name that i can spend lol. in a few weeks, however, i should have at least $200, which i plan spending on a 9800 pro. do you think it would be better to get a slightly less powerful video card and get another $87 stick? (not sure if that's entirely accurate, but close) thnx again.

entropy

ok found it! now running at 3.02 (214x16)! thnx guys btw i was also thinking of getting a $24 (including s&h) thermaltake SPARK 7+ from allstarshop. anyone have any good or bad experience with these? and if you know where i can get one cheaper, or even have a better solution, lemme know! thanks again

mmonnin

First thing I would get is RAM. You only have hald the bandwidth you could have.

entropy

k, running @3.2 now w/barely an increase in idle temp. i've been wondering when i should change my ratio .. right now i'm running at 1:1 and my timings are 2.5-3-3-7. i'm thinking maybe i should tweak those a bit, but i'm not sure. let me know when i should think about changing to 5:4, or is it just when i can't boot properly? also ... i know i need another stick of 512 ... but i've heard a gig doesn't oc good for some reason - fact or fiction? and should i get the same ram or different altogether (obviously get 2 of the same type i know). so many questions lol, feel free to whack the noob :rolleyes2 BUT at least i'm finally oc'ing , thanx to you all!! cheers guys

ginipig

Are you benching/stability-testing the system along the way? Prime95, SearchforPi, Memtest, Folding@Home, or any other program that will heat up the system should be used to check for stability. It's a trial and error process. Once you get your 9800 pro, I'll help you o/c it (assuming that you want to) using Atitool.

muddocktor

Don't worry, everyone was a n00b at overclocking at 1 time. Like ginipig said, have you tried any stability test such as he listed yet? That is a great way to see how stable your rig is while overclocked, especially the Folding@Home project because it will puke with the slightest machine instability found.

For testing your memory, run memtest86 and it will be able to handle the overclocked speeds just fine and if it can't, then you can start using the 4:5 ratio instead of 1:1 ratio.

mmonnin

Yep keep going with 1:1 until it wont go any farther.

entropy

how long do i want to run any of those? i ran prime95 for a min or so and it was already up to 35*C so i got nervous and killed it lol.

muddocktor

Those temps won't bother your proc a bit, entr0py. All those programs except memtest86 will stress your cpu to the max and are also a great test for your cooling in your rig too.

entropy

i figured it was safe enough, just the fact that it went up that high that fast worried me .... i'm almost positive i'm gonna get a new hsf...not sure if i should get that spark 7+ or anything else anyone knows of ...

muddocktor

I'm partial to Thermalright's SLK series of heatsinks myself. The SLK800-U series, The SLK900-U series and SLK947-U are all great choices for less than $40. Not cheap, but they will handle any load you can throw at them, running a Smartfan 2 or Mechatronics 80mm fan on top.

entropy

lol, you're right, definitely not cheap! i'm lookin' more around $30 for the whole deal. don't exactly have a lot of money, and 9800pro and then ram is first! btw, i ran prime 95 for quite awhile and the max i got was around 41/43 degrees...not too hot, not too cold. if i got some AS would that help, too? i'm using some cheapo radioshack white crap...easiest to get my hands on.

profdlp

entr0py wrote:

...i'm using some cheapo radioshack white crap...easiest to get my hands on.

I read a review of thermal pastes which gave the Radio Shack stuff a surprisingly good score. Other products are somewhat better, but don't expect miracles.

This has been an interesting thread - I'm learning some new stuff. :thumbup

muddocktor

41/43 C isn't bad at all, entr0py, so don't worry about the hsf for now. My 2 P4's both run around 50 C while folding and in the mid 30's when they aren't(almost never though).

entropy

first off i couldn't get folding@home to run ... my router wouldn't open port 8080 due to some conflict with http server something or other that wasn't listed anywhere. and i couldn't run it just by itself :banghead: good to hear that that radioshack stuff isn't half bad. the thing is mudd, i'm at 3.2 right now ... never said wanted to STAY at 3.2 lol ... 3.4 or 3.6 would for sure be nice ... then again i'm not sure if i need that much extra, prolly do too much damage. course saying you're running an entire ghz above stock is definitely fun to tease your friends with!

profdlp

No guarantees, but if you go a step too far with the OC the worst that is likely to happen is that you'll have to manually reset your BIOS, unless your MB has a built-in speed reset (which many do). Go for it!

entropy

lol well i know i can't hit 3.4 on stock ... i guess the highest people get (stably) is 3.3 and i bet that's even pushing it. which is why i'm wondering if spending another $25 would even make a difference. i think mmonnin is right tho..prolly should get another ram but is it true that a gig doesn't play nice with oc's?

muddocktor

2-512's play nicely in DC mode on 865 and 875 boards, if you have the money for them.

profdlp

entr0py wrote:

...is it true that a gig doesn't play nice with oc's?

The quality of the ram is what matters, not the quantity.

Just make sure it matches what you already have.

mmonnin

2 sticks will do you fine. Some P4s get up to 3.6 GHz so there is still room for you depending on the limit of your particular CPU.

Yeah I have seen where the radioshack stuff wasnt too bad at all. Surprised me.

You should be able to find a SLk-800 with a fan on a forum for about $30 shipped. I got an SLk-800 and an SLK-947 for $30 on separate occations.

I would say that you could get to 50C before you hit the limiit of the CPU. Prolly temps would be too high before the CPU is limited with that HSF you have now. RAM also might limit before the CPU. Thats when you change to the different ratios.

entropy

so once i start noticing a depreciation (not sure if that's how you spell it) in the benches after knocking up the fsb is when i should switch ratios? and where did you find those hsfs? just ppl trying to sell them on forums? cuz i think i might get that spark 7+ (altho i would rather have a better one) and for $30 inc s&h it'll only be slightly more and definitely worth it.

mmonnin

When your system becomes unstable, whats when you should change the ratio.

I found the HSFs on forums.

entropy

that's what i mean, what do you define unstable as? when you crash? when p95 heats the cpu to 50 or more? when you can't boot windows or even post?

Medlock

You know, I've also got a 2.8C at 3.2 GHz. I haven't noticed any differences in temperatures, idle or under load. The highest this thing has ever hit is 50 degrees, and that's with stock cooling. I dunno if I wanna go much further though. My mobo can automatically put the cpu speed back down if anyting goes wrong, but I'm kind of a newb to overclocking so I don't wanna go too far. I have 1 stick of 512 megs ram... If I get another, what kinda difference does it make?

mmonnin

When it wont post, prime crashes, a benchmark exits, freezes or reboots the computer or a random reboot. 50C is fine, that does not mean its not stable. I have 2 computers over that that are stable. A 2400+M at 2.5GHz (can go higher but its getting warmer out and I dont like the temps that high) and a 1800@2.4. That one can go a little bit higher as well but dont for the same reason.