Thinking of building my own router...

entropyentropy Yah-Der-Hey (Wisconsin)
edited July 2004 in Science & Tech
My current router (DI-604) isn't always up to the load it gets, and cooling it, with a Tornado no less ;D, doesn't have any effect. So, I was thinking of using an old K6-2 and Smoothwall to build my own router. But, the problem is that the machine is so old, it only has one pci slot, presumably for a "high tech" graphics card. The rest are ... big ... and black ... slots. I have no idea what they are. There's one pci and 3 black ones. So, would it make sense to figure out what those are and just buy old nic cards and a regular one, or just buy a new mobo? Prolly can find a mobo like that, but slightly newer, for dirt cheap.
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Comments

  • profdlpprofdlp The Holy City Of Westlake, Ohio
    edited July 2004
    Those black slots are ISA slots (Industry Standard Architecture). The only place you'll find cards for them is at the junkyard.

    Is the case you want to use AT or ATX? I have a bunch of boards laying around which might help you out. One could be yours postage-paid for a small donation to our F@H team. :)
  • entropyentropy Yah-Der-Hey (Wisconsin)
    edited July 2004
    idunno ... here's a pic of it.
    (sorry it's so big ... photoshop is being a wench and won't let me use it :( )
    It's a k6-2 233mhz with ... 32 megs of ram i think? not quite sure, but it definitely isn't much.
    //EDIT:
    I guess I should warn you it's a Compcrap ... so I'm not sure if the power supply is picky, like Dell's are.
    //Double edit:
    Hey prof, out of curiosity, any idea what that stick of ... stuff is below the ram??
  • ThraxThrax 🐌 Austin, TX Icrontian
    edited July 2004
    I'm venturing a guess, but it looks like a hardware AGP terminator. It probably tells the system that no AGP video card is installed and that it should look onboard or to the PCI slots to find video.
  • profdlpprofdlp The Holy City Of Westlake, Ohio
    edited July 2004
    entr0py wrote:
    ...I guess I should warn you it's a Compcrap ... so I'm not sure if the power supply is picky, like Dell's are...
    That is so proprietary that you aren't getting anything in there except another Compaq board of that era. :(

    </br>
    ...any idea what that stick of ... stuff is below the ram??
    (Guessing) Maybe more ram for the on-board video? :confused:

    I shouldn't tell you this, but I threw away several AT cases which would be a good match for the MB I was talking about when I moved a few weeks ago. (I still can't figure out why I didn't toss the boards along with them.)

    As a consolation, finding an old AT case isn't too tough. Just drive around on trash day in your neighborhood and you've got a decent chance of finding a free one sitting at the curb. :vimp: (I'm not kidding.)
  • entropyentropy Yah-Der-Hey (Wisconsin)
    edited July 2004
    meh, that kinda sucks. Smoothwall has to be the only thing running, right? Like I couldn't have it run in the background on a Windows comp (I was considering using my parent's)? As for the crap-cruising idea, I live in a town with 500 people ... I'm thinkin' driving around (walking, even) and picking up cases doesn't have a very likey turnout, not to mention the weird looks I'd get... :rolleyes:
    //EDIT:
    well, just to satisfy my own curiosity I did some looking on the mobo. A spare part place (which didn't have it in stock, gotta call) had this advertised
    Motherboard (system board) with 16MB memory and 2MB VRAM
    so maybe that extra thing is vram ... whatever that is...
    also found this at another site
    16MB Non-removable + 0, 8, 16 MB Removable
    So it could just be that 16mb non-removable memory
  • edited July 2004
    That machine should be great for a Smoothwall box (I run my Smoothwall on a K6-2 system myself, test_tube_tony runs his off of a P200)!

    Smoothwall isn't an application, it's a full fledged Linux distro (in other words, it's an operating system designed to be a router). Installing it and setting it up is a snap, and maintaining it couldn't be any easier thanks to the web-based GUI accessible within your local LAN.

    I think you have inspired me to (finally) write that Smoothwall guide I have been talking about (and Brian’s been nagging me about) for so long. Being as school's out, I now have more time on my hands than I know what to do with.

    I'll go crazy on it tomorrow. Screenshots, step by step guide, the works!

    EDIT: That brown slot with what appears to be a DIMM in it couldn't be an AGP terminator, as it's no where near a slot on the back of the case. Besides, if the board was made in the AGP era, it wouldn't have so many ISA slots, and one PCI. My guess is it's video memory.

    I also may have an old ISA NIC kicking around. If I do I'll let you know. For a Smoothwall you'll need at least two NICs (unless your cable/DSL/telephony modem can use USB), and around 1-1.5 GBs of HDD space.

    I'll go into much, much more detail tomorrow.
  • entropyentropy Yah-Der-Hey (Wisconsin)
    edited July 2004
    Sounds cool :) I'd use it ... but unless I can find 3 of those ISA ethernet cards, I'll be stuck to my crappy 604 lol. Dumb question: Smoothwall isn't ONLY a firewall, is it? It can be used as router 'software' right? (Just double checking in case I miraculously come up with those ISA ethernets)
  • edited July 2004
    Yep. Smoothwall is a router/firewall.

    EDIT: You could use one PCI NIC, and one ISA. If I can find my old ISA one, you could use that and a new PCI card.
  • entropyentropy Yah-Der-Hey (Wisconsin)
    edited July 2004
    I've got three computers that would need to be networked...so if someone know where I can get two more, and if you can find it, I'd be happy to take you up on that offer :)
  • edited July 2004
    Smoothwall doesn't quite work like that. You only need 2 NICs because one NIC will connect to your modem, and the other to a hub or switch which connects to the other computers.
    sw.JPG 17.8K
  • entropyentropy Yah-Der-Hey (Wisconsin)
    edited July 2004
    Ahhhhhhhh crap. So I'd have to buy a switch/hub, too? As in, that's a requirement? Is there any other Smoothwall-ish thing out there that can use 3-4 ethernet cards?:-/
    //EDIT: (I seem to be doing a lot of editing tonight...)
    Maybe it's time to edjamuhcate me on routers...
    The main reason the 604 can't keep up is apparently because it can't handle the amount of connections Overnet puts on it (and occasionally WinMX, and sometimes just browsing). So. If I smoothwalled that k6-2 and ran the router to it via the WAN, would the router technically still be keeping track of the connections or would it leave that up to the compaq? If so then this just might work...
  • edited July 2004
    WHy not just buy a switch or hub? They're really cheap nowadays...
  • qparadoxqparadox Vancouver, BC
    edited July 2004
    You could easily set it up that way ... the problem is you only have 3 available slots on that board (you need one for video .. .although it might boot without video). So at most you could hook up 2 other computers unless you get into daisy-chaining and bridging connections ... and you don't want to do that. You can get an 8 port 10/100 hub for $25 easily, its probably cheaper than even finding the ISA network cards. I managed to bum an ISA card off prime a while ago ... there's also TONS on ebay, you can get em for $.01 + shipping easily. Just pick something that's a brand name (Intel, 3com, SMC) and smoothwall will have support compiled into the kernel.
  • ThraxThrax 🐌 Austin, TX Icrontian
    edited July 2004
    TheSmJ wrote:
    EDIT: That brown slot with what appears to be a DIMM in it couldn't be an AGP terminator, as it's no where near a slot on the back of the case.

    It's AT form factor. Many of the connections on the backplane were connected via ribbon cable to the peripheral or motherboard.
  • edited July 2004
    Looks like the comp has onboard video already. Note the S3 chips.
  • edited July 2004
    Thrax wrote:
    It's AT form factor. Many of the connections on the backplane were connected via ribbon cable to the peripheral or motherboard.


    Doesn't look like any AT form factor case I've ever used.

    In fact it's not AT form factor at all. If it was, it would have an AT keyboard connector spot on the back of the case.

    EDIT again: Also, AT style mobo's didn’t have built in connectors for the serial/Parallel ports. It either had header pins (which connected to ports on the back of the case VIA a ribbon cable) or a separate controller card. Furthermore, AT spec mobos didn’t have built in IDE controllers.
  • entropyentropy Yah-Der-Hey (Wisconsin)
    edited July 2004
    it does have onboard video. And yes TheSmJ, our modem CAN use a usb connection :) So then all I'd need is one pci card. But I won't even bother doing this unless someone can clarify my post about the connection handling. Or if I can grab a switch off a friend for almost nothing (I'd rather not spend a ton more money...'bout time for a car for me :p)
  • edited July 2004
    I've only configured a Smoothwall to have one green (aka, local) network. As far as I'm aware, you can only have one green and one red (internet) port on a single Smoothwall box (without a modification to the OS, that is).
  • entropyentropy Yah-Der-Hey (Wisconsin)
    edited July 2004
    Huh? What I'm asking is if I went Smoothwall > router > comps would the router still be making / keeping track of connections? Or would it be forwarding, per say, all that to the Smoothwall box?
  • edited July 2004
    Oh, sorry...

    It'd try to I'd imagine.

    You could try connecting everything (including the SW box) to the LAN ports (keeping the WAN port unused) and see what that does.
  • entropyentropy Yah-Der-Hey (Wisconsin)
    edited July 2004
    Hey, not a bad idea. I think I'll give that a shot. I won't have to tell the router that one of the lans is being used as wan and to redirect everything there, will i?
  • edited July 2004
    I doubt it.

    As long as the d-link router is set to a different IP than the Smoothwall box, I don’t think it would/could do anything to effect the rest of the network.
  • entropyentropy Yah-Der-Hey (Wisconsin)
    edited July 2004
    Eh, I plugged the cable from the modem into a lan, just to test out the connection thing, and it didn't even think the internet existed any more. Ok, so I think if I can grab a switch for real cheap I'll do this. Otherwise it just doesn't make much sense to... :-/ Second question: would a 1996 or so machine have usb 1.0 or 1.1 ?
  • mmonninmmonnin Centreville, VA
    edited July 2004
    prof: Are you telling me your house is a junkyard because I believe somewhere in my apartment are some old ISA cards you sent me.;)
  • edited July 2004
    entr0py wrote:
    Eh, I plugged the cable from the modem into a lan, just to test out the connection thing, and it didn't even think the internet existed any more. Ok, so I think if I can grab a switch for real cheap I'll do this. Otherwise it just doesn't make much sense to... :-/ Second question: would a 1996 or so machine have usb 1.0 or 1.1 ?

    The modem will not connect to the switch, but the Smoothwall box (check my diagram above). If you connected the modem into a plain switch, it wouldn't work then either. The only things which should connect to the LAN ports are the computers, and the output of the Smoothwall's "green" port.

    As for the USB thing, I wouldn't worry about it as the modem should work with whatever USB version it's connected to.
  • entropyentropy Yah-Der-Hey (Wisconsin)
    edited July 2004
    Alright, I guess I can't check this yet. And as for the usb, it kinda does matter. usb 1.0 gets around 1.5mbps, and my modem has a 2.8mbps downstream, so I don't wanna be stuck with only 1.5 lol
  • dodododo Landisville, PA
    edited July 2004
    Im gonna go with that that extra slot of memory being external cache?

    ~dodo
  • EMTEMT Seattle, WA Icrontian
    edited July 2004
    Aaaaah don't do it! Don't buy yourself a new switch - you've got one in front of you! Smoothwall should have a DHCP server on its LAN card. All you have to do is disable DHCP on the router and connect everything to its LAN ports. It will be a switch. The reason it doesn't work connecting your cable modem to that is that the cable modem is made for only one client. It won't accept more than that. The same thing would happen with a regular switch. Additionally you probably require a crossover cable to even try the cable modem connected to LAN port.

    Anyway the point is that you've got your switch already. I used the same router (till switching to ICS) and I think I tried this before. Certainly will help test if you need anything. In theory this idea passes with flying colors. Only drop the money for a switch when you're sure you need it.
  • dancerdancer Blue Mountains, Australia
    edited July 2004
    yeah, looks like some pipeline cache or something along those lines.
    The old P1's used to have plugin upgradeable cache.
  • primesuspectprimesuspect Beepin n' Boopin Detroit, MI Icrontian
    edited July 2004
    Holy crap you guys! Are you that young, or am I just that old? :(

    That is external cache! It was all the rage to have that external cache during the ~166mhz era! Jeez!

    Dodo called it :D
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