Replacement system, AMD or Intel?

muddocktormuddocktor
edited October 2004 in Hardware
Well, I got a new psu for my daughter's Chaintech dually system and it looks like that Enermax psu has also knackered the mobo too; the machine freezes up and will pop up a message to a bios flash(which I tried BTW and didn't help). I still have to check out whether the mobo is still under warrantee but I've decided that I would rebuild her system with either a HT P4 or A64 and try to sell the chaintech stuff if it is still covered under warrantee later on.

I've built HT P4 systems before and I love how they are as responsive as a dual system with multiple apps running in the background but I've never built an A64 system yet and it looks like I might even come off cheaper than a P4 system.

For an Intel system I was thinking of getting the following:

Abit IC7-G - $134 + $2.99 shipping
Northwood P4 2.8/800 fsb (retail) - $181 + $.99 shipping
PQI Turbo PC32000 2-2-2-5 DC 512 kit - $128 + $1.99 shipping

Intel total - $443 + $5.97 shipping =$448.97


For an A64 based system I was thinking of the following:

DFI "LANPARTY UT nF3 250Gb" socket 754 mobo - $127 + free shipping
A64 2800+ Newcastle (retail) - $141 + free shipping
CORSAIR XMS, Xtra-Low Latency 2-2-2-5 512 MB stick - $129 + free shipping

A64 total - $397

For these 2 setups, the A64 comes out around 50 bucks cheaper. My question about the A64 system is this: how well do the A64 2800+ procs overclock? Is it unreasonable to expect 2.2-2.6 GHz out of them? I know from past experience that the Northwood should do at least 3.2 with no problems but I'm clueless as to the A64's overclocking abilities. Also, what stepping A64 do you think that the egg is now shipping in the 2800+ retail procs now? Cooling either setup will be no problem as I have unused SLK947 and SLK948 heatsinks laying around. :D

I will be ordering very soon; either tonight or tomorrow so any help would be appreciated. :)

Comments

  • GHoosdumGHoosdum Icrontian
    edited October 2004
    Pretty much all of the current A64s will OC to the 2.2-2.4 range on moderate air. You're going to get a Newcastle core CPU from Newegg, which has the 512MB of L2. It's almost impossible to find the 1MB L2 chips these days (I don't even know if AMD put out a 1MB L2 core 2800+ ever...

    The nF3 250Gb chipset is nice - I've got the Asus K8N and it's a nice board. Very responsive chipset.
  • muddocktormuddocktor
    edited October 2004
    That's good to hear that the average overclock out of the Newcastle's nowdays is that high, GH. :thumbsup: I wasn't worried about the 1M clawhammer versions as from what little I know, that's the first gen technology in socket 754 and cache isn't as important for A64 as it is for a P4. This is making me lean more and more towards the A64 setup, plus the $50 savings.
  • ThraxThrax 🐌 Austin, TX Icrontian
    edited October 2004
    If you can and want to foot the bill for a 90nm Athlon 64 3000+, you can land a 2.6GHz OC pretty easily (FX-55/4000+).
  • muddocktormuddocktor
    edited October 2004
    Thrax wrote:
    If you can and want to foot the bill for a 90nm Athlon 64 3000+, you can land a 2.6GHz OC pretty easily (FX-55/4000+).

    Yeah but then I end up spending more money, but I really haven't checked out the price differential between the 2800/754 and a 3000/939. I might have to check it out though. What's a good overclockable socket 939 board using the nf250 gb chipset(no via for me ;) )?
  • ThraxThrax 🐌 Austin, TX Icrontian
    edited October 2004
    Slim pickings. NF3 Ultra is the 250GB for 939, by the by.
  • Omega65Omega65 Philadelphia, Pa
    edited October 2004
    Newegg S939 Motherboards

    Athlon 64 3000+ 90nm S939 $179

    Abit AV8 S939 K8T800 Pro $111

    Also grab a Thermalright XP90 & 92mm Fan ~$50


    The S939 90nm will OC into the 2.3-2.6ghz easily (3500+ - 4000+)

    Anandtech 90nm OC article

    290 x 9 = 2610mhz
  • JimboraeJimborae Newbury, Berks, UK New
    edited October 2004
    Make sure you're careful over what ram you get if you go down the S939 route. Many boards are very picky, Samsung tccd chips and Crucial Ballistix are supposed to be good. I've just had to buy an OCZ Ram Booster to try & get my BH-5 to play ball, gonna try it out tonight.
  • primesuspectprimesuspect Beepin n' Boopin Detroit, MI Icrontian
    edited October 2004
    Yeah, backing up what Jimbo says.... I had to get rid of some brand new OCZ Gold EL series because it just plain wouldn't work with more than one stick in the Asus A8V. Check the compatibility!
  • muddocktormuddocktor
    edited October 2004
    Thanks for the advice on the ram; that PQI memory I had picked for the IC7-G system is using the Samsung TCCD chips and it's pretty reasonable. Anantech did a test with it on both AMD and Intel machines and it did pretty well.

    What about the EPoX "EP-9NDA3+" mobo? I know that Thrax doesn't like EpoX and I've had bad experiences with them in the past, but they've upgraded their caps to decent ones and they now give a 2 year warrantee; do you think I should try it out?
  • ThraxThrax 🐌 Austin, TX Icrontian
    edited October 2004
    I personally wouldn't buy it, because I simply cannot and will not get over my developed fear of their products, but if you feel comfortable with that 2 year warrantee behind it.. Go for it. When they work ( ;) ) they're good boards.
  • JimboraeJimborae Newbury, Berks, UK New
    edited October 2004
    This is my first try with the ram booster installed with BH-5 memory at 3.5v :eek:
  • Omega65Omega65 Philadelphia, Pa
    edited October 2004
    muddocktor wrote:
    What about the EPoX "EP-9NDA3+" mobo?

    OCWorkbench Review


    Anandtech Review
  • muddocktormuddocktor
    edited October 2004
    Damn, that ram booster really helped you out and that's a nice overclock too, Jim! :thumbsup:

    I went ahead and ordered the EPoX board and also a retail 3000+ Winchester 939 from mwave.com a few minutes ago. I still have to decide on what memory to buy though as I forsee that my daughter will inherit my IC7-G machine instead of getting the A64 and I want to go with a gig of ddr in the board instead of 512. :D
  • JimboraeJimborae Newbury, Berks, UK New
    edited October 2004
    muddocktor wrote:
    Damn, that ram booster really helped you out and that's a nice overclock too, Jim! :thumbsup:

    I went ahead and ordered the EPoX board and also a retail 3000+ Winchester 939 from mwave.com a few minutes ago. I still have to decide on what memory to buy though as I forsee that my daughter will inherit my IC7-G machine instead of getting the A64 and I want to go with a gig of ddr in the board instead of 512. :D


    It ain't over till the fat lady goes trah, lah, lah ..... ;D


    Haven't had time to work on the stability yet, just long enough to get a screen shot. Ram now at 3.7v 2,2,2,8 :eek::eek::eek:
  • leishi85leishi85 Grand Rapids, MI Icrontian
    edited October 2004
    what is this ram booster u are talking about??
  • ThraxThrax 🐌 Austin, TX Icrontian
    edited October 2004
    OCZ DDR Booster
  • JimboraeJimborae Newbury, Berks, UK New
    edited October 2004
    leishi85 wrote:
    what is this ram booster u are talking about??

    OCZ Ram Booster


    It basically plugs into a spare ram slot & allows you to increase the ram voltage above the max in bios. Basically it's similar to doing a volt mod on memory except that its easily removed & leaves no evidence of it being there.

    Anyway apologies to mud for my off topicness.

    Mud, you may encounter probs overclocking with a gig of ram in there. I've read somewhere that high overclocks are limited when running that much.

    :edit: damn , Thrax beat me to it :)
  • leishi85leishi85 Grand Rapids, MI Icrontian
    edited October 2004
    but it will work with basically any ram right?? i might wanna give this a try.
  • ThraxThrax 🐌 Austin, TX Icrontian
    edited October 2004
    Any RAM. You just need to make sure your motherboard is compatible.
  • JimboraeJimborae Newbury, Berks, UK New
    edited October 2004
    & remember not all ram like mega volts. I got it cos I know that BH-5 does, I could only get 235fsb @ 2.85v. THe more volts you feed BH-5 the higher it goes
  • ThraxThrax 🐌 Austin, TX Icrontian
    edited October 2004
    I think I'm going to be buying one. My corsair sticks are BH-5.
  • muddocktormuddocktor
    edited October 2004
    Jim, in that Anandtech article that Omega linked to, they tested using 2X512 sticks of ram and were able to get 291 fsb with their test FX53! :eek:

    That was using the OCZ PC3200 EL Platinum Rev. 2 or Geil PC3200 Ultra X memory, which are TCCD sticks.
  • ThraxThrax 🐌 Austin, TX Icrontian
    edited October 2004
    God bless Samsung for finally coming out with a good BH5 replacement. It saddened me to think that BH-5 was such a literal flash in the pan regarding availability.
  • muddocktormuddocktor
    edited October 2004
    Yeah, you got that right, Thrax. I was lucky enough to get a couple of sticks of Corsair XMS3200C2 a couple of years ago that I'm sure must be BH5 chips in them because they overclock so well at 2-2-2-11 timings on my NF7-S. I'm really glad to see some ddr coming out that can run very high fsb speeds with decent timings now with memory chips other than BH5.
  • ThraxThrax 🐌 Austin, TX Icrontian
    edited October 2004
    Yeah, me too. I didn't know how lucky I was with my memory until I really realized how well it clocks. I mean, currently I'm back to being bitten by the overclocking bug and my memory is now doing 225@2/2/2. How sweet is that?

    I'll never sell this Corsair C2.
  • JimboraeJimborae Newbury, Berks, UK New
    edited October 2004
    I just love BH-5 cos it was/is so cheap and clocks so well. The stuff i've got clocked at 270fsb is called Rambo Ram & I bought it, 2nd hand, off ebay about 2 months ago for £45. Thats £22.50/stick !!! Never heard of the brand before but it was cheaper & appears to clock better than my TwinMos BH-5
  • BudBud Chesterfield, Va
    edited October 2004
    how do you tell when u buy ram if its BH-5 chips? Do certain barnds use them all the time
  • ThraxThrax 🐌 Austin, TX Icrontian
    edited October 2004
    Virtually no brand new RAM stick uses BH5 any more.
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