Ideas for the 1st time builder
I'm looking to build a computer that I can network with my kids' computers and do some gaming with them as well as over the internet. My connection is only a 56k as there is no broadband available where I live in the middle of the Mojave Desert. I don't really need a DVD in it but I would like to have a CD-RW in it. I'm not interested in overclocking or anything like that. I just want to build it, plop it into its space in my desk and forget about it except for the power button. I already have a Linksys Wireless-G PCI Adapter and a Linksys 2.4GHz Wireless-G Broadband Router for my kids' systems. (Even though I won't be internet connection sharing I still wanted my kids to be able to use the internet from their own systems when I am not hogging up the line)
I am a gamer so I need something that is able to run the latest games (even though the 56k doesnt cooperate with that) and I wouldn't mind if it were good enough to be able to run the next few games that come out, too. I'd like something that is fairly versitile. I'm not looking for top-of-the-line but I'd like it to be able to do things from gaming to amature photoshopping to playing mp3's and such.
My desk is really small so I'm tossing around getting a flat panel monitor for this.
I don't really have a set budget for this but I'd like to keep it under $1000 with the monitor and if I could get it in the $800 range that would be even better.
That's about all I can think of right now. Any tips or ideas would be very greatly appreciated. Please and thank you.
I am a gamer so I need something that is able to run the latest games (even though the 56k doesnt cooperate with that) and I wouldn't mind if it were good enough to be able to run the next few games that come out, too. I'd like something that is fairly versitile. I'm not looking for top-of-the-line but I'd like it to be able to do things from gaming to amature photoshopping to playing mp3's and such.
My desk is really small so I'm tossing around getting a flat panel monitor for this.
I don't really have a set budget for this but I'd like to keep it under $1000 with the monitor and if I could get it in the $800 range that would be even better.
That's about all I can think of right now. Any tips or ideas would be very greatly appreciated. Please and thank you.
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Comments
A 9800 Pro can be prolly be bought for under $200 nowadays.
To keep things a bit simpler I would recommend an Antec case with a power supply inside. They are nice quality PSUs and I own 4. A package can be bought at newegg for $65 plus S&H.
mmonnin suggested an Abit NF7-S, which is one of the all-time favorites for AMD's AthlonXP line. Newegg currently has them priced at $63. The board comes with built in sound and network capability which means you'll have two fewer add-on cards to buy. Stick an AthlonXP 3000+ ($143) in there and you'll have plenty of processing power for games, etc.
Throw in a twin pack of Corsair PC3200 memory modules for $141 and you'll have a full Gigabyte (1024MB) of ram - plenty for gaming, and most likely anything else you have in mind. Buying one 512MB stick might be enough, halving the cost of the ram. You could always add more later.
The total thus far comes to $347, leaving you between $453 and $653 (based on the $800 - $1,000 budget) for a Case, Monitor, Video Card, Hard Drive and CD Burner.
You should decide what your storage needs will likely be. Am 80GB HD will run about $70 - $80 bucks. If you want more room a 200GB model would cost around $140. Since you want a CD Burner (providing you with a second storage option) you might consider saving a few bucks here for now and putting the money into a better Video Card. It is very easy to add a second Hard Drive later on if you decide you want more space.
I'd recommend getting both a CD Burner ($23) and a DVD Player ($24) as separate items, or else just go ahead and get a DVD Burner ($70), which will burn CD's as well. The benefit of getting separate drives is that copying CD's will be a one-step process, halving the time required (you won't have to copy the disc to your Hard Drive first, then burn it from there). The advantage of going ahead and getting a DVD Burner is that you will be able to play and burn any type of disc you want. For the extra $23 (compared to buying the separate drives) I would go for it. A regular blank DVD will hold 7 times as much as a CD, you'll be able to watch movies on your computer, and we are seeing more and more software available on DVD. If you've ever played a multi-CD game where you had to constantly stop and swap out the disc you can see the advantage right there.
Updating our running total, we now have managed to spend $483 of your dough
As for the Case and Video Card, I'll leave that to people who know more about the subject than myself.
You'll need a mouse, keyboard, plus Heat Sink & Fan for the CPU. You can pay as much or as little for these as you wish, but skimping on the latter is not a good idea.
One thing I haven't mentioned is an Operating System, most likely Windows (unless you're going with Linux). If your current computer is old enough to have come with Win98 and you have already bought a copy of WinXP I would recommend that for the time being you consider going back to Win98 on the old machine and using WinXP for the new one. You can always upgrade the Win98 box later on. Doing it this way will not cost you any money out-of-pocket right now. WinXP Home is $92 at newegg right now if you buy it along with the hardware.
The links I gave you are suggestions only. There is a lot of good hardware out there and no doubt other people will share their opinions as to what they've had success with. You might want to browse around Newegg's web site for further ideas.
Qty Product Description Unit Price Extended Price
Cases (Computer Cases, ATX Form)
ANTEC Black Solution Series ATX Mid-Tower Case with 350W Power Supply, Model "SLK3700-BQE" -RETAIL
Item# N82E16811129140
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$72.00
$72.00
Extended Warranty Coverage
CD/DVD Burners (RW Drives)
NEC 16X Double Layer DVD±RW Drive, Black, Model ND-3500A BK W/SW, OEM with software
Item# N82E16827152029
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$65.99
$65.99
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CD/DVD ROM Drives
SAMSUNG 16X DVD Drive Black, Model TS-H352A/WBGH, OEM
Item# N82E16827151208
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$22.99
$22.99
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Floppy Drives
NEC 1.44MB Black Internal Floppy Drive, OEM
Item# N82E16821152005
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$7.00
$7.00
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Hard Drives
SAMSUNG 160GB 7200RPM SATA Hard Drive, Model SP1614C, OEM Drive Only
Item# N82E16822152015
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$91.50
$91.50
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Memory (System Memory)
Corsair Value Select 184 Pin 512MB DDR PC-3200 - Retail
Item# N82E16820145026
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$69.27
$69.27
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Monitors - LCD Flat Panel
ADVUEU ADV179B 17" 16ms Black LCD Monitor w/ Speakers - Retail
Item# N82E16824180022
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$229.00
$229.00
**This item is warranted through the product manufacturer only.
Standard Warranty only
Motherboards - AMD
EPOX "EP-8KDA3I" NVIDIA nForce3 250 Chipset Motherboard For AMD Socket 754 CPU -RETAIL
Item# N82E16813123225
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$64.50
$64.50
**This item is warranted through the product manufacturer only.
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Processors
AMD Athlon 64 3000+, 512KB L2 Cache 64-bit Processor - Retail
Item# N82E16819103486
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$148.00
$148.00
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Video Cards
XFX nVIDIA GeForce 6800 Video Card, 128MB DDR, 256-Bit, TV-Out/Dual DVI, 8X AGP, Model"PVT40KND" -RETAIL
Item# N82E16814150068
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$270.00
$270.00
Extended Warranty Coverage
Extended Warranty: $0.00
Product total: $1,040.25
FedEx International Economy - PR ONLY APO/FPO - Military ONLY FedEx Standard Overnight FedEx 2Day FedEx Express Saver Choose state AA AP AE ALASKA ALABAMA ARKANSAS ARIZONA CALIFORNIA COLORADO CONNECTICUT DISTRICT OF COLUMBIA DELAWARE FLORIDA GEORGIA HAWAII IOWA IDAHO ILLINOIS INDIANA KANSAS KENTUCKY LOUISIANA MASSACHUSETTS MARYLAND MAINE MICHIGAN MINNESOTA MISSOURI MISSISSIPPI MONTANA NORTH CAROLINA NORTH DAKOTA NEBRASKA NEW HAMPSHIRE NEW JERSEY NEW MEXICO NEVADA NEW YORK OHIO OKLAHOMA OREGON PENNSYLVANIA PUERTO RICO RHODE ISLAND SOUTH CAROLINA SOUTH DAKOTA TENNESSEE TEXAS UTAH VIRGINIA VERMONT WASHINGTON WISCONSIN WEST VIRGINIA WYOMING Shipping & Handling: $ 0.00
Total (Before tax): $ 1,040.25
I did some window shopping for stuff today and I learned that flat-screen monitors are different from flat-panel monitors. In size AND in price. I can see now that I'll have to build the computer and then convince the wife that I need the flat monitor afterwards...heh.
I can't belive the price difference on stuff from Newegg compared to the big electronic superstores. What a ripoff!
350W of clean stable power is better than some no-name 500W unit that doesn't even provide clean power with a 300W load.
As for a Heatsink if you dont get a Retail CPU, Thermalright is the best. An ALX-800 or better will work great.
I was wondering what is the difference (in terms for dummies) between this Athlon64 and this Athlon XP 3000+?
As always...thank you.
To put the difference in very simple terms, I like to use this analogy:
Imagine your data is an army. You want it to move as rapidly as possible. Suppose you had 100,000 troops you needed to get to the front lines. If the men marched 64 abreast the entire army would get there twice as fast as if they marched 32 abreast. The 64-Bit CPU has an obvious theoretical advantage. (As with nearly everything, in the real world you lose a portion of that advantage to overhead considerations.)
The Athlon64 is backwards compatible with 32-Bit applications, meaning the software you own now will still work with it. Where it will really shine is when we start to see 64-Bit applications really begin to hit the market. These 64-Bit apps flat-out won't run on a 32-Bit CPU, but will be dramatically faster on a 64-Bit system. The only thing slowing the release of 64-Bit apps is the fact that there are still a lot of 32-Bit computers in the world.
Keep in mind, if you decide to go the 64-Bit route (I am doing so myself very soon, according to Santa!), you will need a different motherboard, and perhaps different memory, to match the CPU.
The Athlon64 you listed is a Socket 754 CPU. I would recommend that you go with a different CPU utilizing the newer Socket 939 configuration. AMD's long-term plans indicate that it will be around much longer than will the Socket 754, meaning that a future CPU upgrade won't necessitate buying a new motherboard as well.
The reason I suggested a socket a Socket 754 cpu & motherboard was simply one of cost. Socket 754 parts are much cheaper at New Egg than S939. Also New Egg doesn't have any low end S939 cpu's in stock.
By going with S754 he can save a bunch of $$$, sink that into a very good graphics card and still jump on the 64bit revolution. If he goes with S939 he's gonna blow his budget of $1000 by quite a margin.
Also I think S754 is here for a good while yet as Semperons are use it. Eitherway it'll be around longer than Socket A which what the original suggestion was.
If so you really need to go with A64, socket 754. If you just want a decent box that has some strength, but will not be upgradeable, then stay with socket A.
I am a fine one to talk, all of my machines are still socket A.
Personal tips:
The Thermaltake silent pure power power supply that Newegg is always selling for under $40 is a great PSU.
Check out the clearance items on Newegg. Right now they have all aluminum cases under $40 (no PSU).
I like ATI video cards, but even if you end up with an GeForce there are two things to remember. First it doesn't really mater if the card has 128MB or 256MB of memory, but it must have 256bit data path. Second, this is easy, you are looking at AGP video cards. The new PCIe cards are comming out, but the motherboards for those are still expensive.
If you want to see how someone else goes through the process of selecting componants look at this http://anandtech.com/guides/showdoc.aspx?i=2282
Ed's suggestion about the TT Silent Pure Power 420 psu is a good one too. I've bought a couple and they are decent power supplies and relatively cheap.
And my wife just made things more interesting. She's increased my budget on this project to $1500-$2000 so I guess that will take me into the 64 bit realm. After seeing the prices on the S939 stuff I think I will go with the S754 that was mentioned and then upgrade the motherboard and chip both in the future if I decide I need it.
This is so much FUN!
If you want to save some money buy the slowest 939 CPU that you can find, the A64 3200+. You can step up later and use this one in a second machine.
Only buy a single 512MB stick of memory, buy the second latter.
You will get good sound and network on the mobo.
Trust me. After you build this the emachines will collect dust. Your wife will want you to build a second machine. Stick to your budget here and you'll get to play more latter.
The display is also a big deal. If you want the absolute best image possible then buy a true flat screen CRT. They are big (get a 19" or 20"), heavy, and beautiful.
If you want to get fancy and take up a lot less space go for a flat pannel display. A 17" will be fine, it has about the same viewing area as a 19" CRT. But read reviews and take a DVD with you to shop. Make them paly it for you on different screens. Play with the settings (they usually set them too bright) and see if you like them.
Oh, by the way, have you heard about folding?
S754 3000+ (Newcqastle core, retail)-$151.00 - newegg.com
S939 3000+ (Winchester core, retail)-$156.00 - mwave.com
S754 3200+ (Newcastle core, retail)-$194.00 - newegg.com
S939 3200+ (Winchester core, retail)-$199.50 - mwave.com
There's a difference in motherboard prices but it's not that much difference. Here's a few examples:
Socket 754:
MSI K8N Neo Platinum(nforce 3 250 chipset)-$103
MSI K8T NeoFIS2R(8KT800 chipset)-$106
Socket 939:
MSI K8N Neo2 Platinum(nforce 3 ULTRA chipset)-$138
MSI K8T Neo2-FIR(K8T800 Pro chipset)-$116
Of course there is a slight price premium on the memory choice with dual channel since 2 smaller sticks of high quality ddr are a little more expensive than 1 bigger stick of high quality ddr most of the time, but there isn't nearly the price premium between the 2 platforms that there used to be. Another plus for the socket 939 choices is the fact that the procs are both Winchester cores, which are 90 nm parts and run cooler than the 130 nm Newcastle cores of the socket 754. I presently have my Winchester 3000+ running at 2350 MHz on the stock retail hsf and my temps run in the low to mid 40's while folding, which keeps the proc loaded at 100%. I can't wait to get my hardware in I need for my SLK948-U so I can get it on my A64 machine and get serious with overclocking it.
The eMachines is going to one of my sons. My desk is really small and I'd really like to get a flat panel display. I will definately take your advice and do my homework.
The friend that sent me here originally answered a couple questions I had about folding. Like what the heck is it?..lol. I'll probably be asking more after I get this thing built but my initial concern is the dang 56k connection.
SETUP 1
antec sonata case w/ 380w true power psu = $98.88
nec 16x DL dvd+/-rw drive = $64.00
msi k8n neo2 platinum, nf3 ultra, s939 mobo = $138.00
1gb corsair xms series ddr pc3200 (2.3.3.6) = $215.50
amd a64 3200+, 2.0ghz, 512l2, s939 - oem = $230.00
zalman cnps7700-alcu hsf, s939 = $41.49
logitech cordless mx duo, keyboard and mouse = $59.95
wd 160gb 7200rpm, 8mb, ide hdd = $91.00
ati radeon 9800pro, 128mb, 256bit, agp8x = $215.00
samsung syncmaster 710t blk 17" lcd, dvi = $429.00
logitech x-530 5.1 blk speaker system = $65.99
TOTAL = $1648.81
SETUP 2
antec sonata case w/ 380w true power psu = $98.88
nec 16x DL dvd+/-rw drive = $64.00
msi k8n neo2 platinum, nf3 ultra, s939 mobo = $138.00
1gb corsair xms series ddr pc3200 (2.3.3.6) = $215.50
amd a64 3200+, 2.0ghz, 512l2, s939 - oem = $230.00
zalman cnps7700-alcu hsf, s939 = $41.49
logitech cordless mx duo, keyboard and mouse = $59.95
wd 200gb 7200rpm, 8mb, SATA hdd = $119.00
evga nvidia geforce 6800gt 256mb, 256bit, agp8x w/ doomIII = $395.00
samsung syncmaster 910t blk 19" lcd, dvi = $464.99
logitech z-5300e 5.1, THX, blk speaker system = $154.99
TOTAL = $1981.80
As you can see the main differences between the 2 setups are the 19" lcd, the top of the line video card(6800gt), the bigger SATA hdd, and the bigger and better THX speaker system.
It is up to you to decide what would be best for your needs....
Those are a couple of nice looking systems, ryko.
Also personally I think I the SLK3700 BQE is a better value case than the Sonata imo. So with those savings I'd definitely go for the 19" monitor & either a 6800 non ultra or 6800gt.
http://www.newegg.com/app/viewproductdesc.asp?description=24-001-171&DEPA=1
so you can knock another $100 off the first setup...
As for the oem cpu and aftermarket hsf, i figured since he was already dropping $1400+ he might as well get something nice instead of the regular retail hsf. Plus the zalman is super quiet.....anyway you never know when the overclocking bug will get you....at least with the xms ram and aftermarket heatsink, you can start playing around without having to worry.
Microsoft Windows XP HOME Edition With Service Pack 2 –OEM $93.24
ANTEC Life Style Series Black Case With 380W Power Supply, Model "SONATA" $99.99
NEC 16X Double Layer DVD±RW Drive, Black, Model ND-3500A BK, OEM $64
AMD Athlon 64 3200+, 512k L2 Cache, The Only 64-bit Windows Compatible Processor(<--What's this all about?) $193.00
MSI nForce3 250 Chipset Motherboard for AMD Athlon 64 Socket 754 CPU, Model "K8N Neo Platinum" (MS-7030) $105.99
Corsair Value Select Dual Channel Kit 184 Pin 1G(512MBx2) DDR PC-3200 $151.29
Logitech Cordless MX Duo USB/ PS/2 104keys $66.94
NEC 1.44MB Black Internal Floppy Drive , OEM $9.99
Western Digital Special Edition 80GB 7200RPM IDE Hard Drive, Model WD800JB, OEM Drive Only $64.69
ATI AIW RADEON 9800PRO Video Card, 128MB DDR, 256-bit, DVI/CATV/VIVO, 8X AGP, With Half-Life2 Bundle Model "100-713100+HL2" –RETAIL $259
Logitech X-230 2.1 Black Speaker System –RETAIL $45.99
SAMSUNG 910T-Black 19" LCD Monitor –RETAIL $476
$1630.12
EDIT: The right one assuming you intended Socket 754. I may have misunderstood the question - I was only saying that the CPU and MB matched.
There are some esoteric 64-Bit processors designed solely for servers. They run special software designed for the job they do, but won't run Windows.
Also, mwave.com has the socket 939 retail 3200+ A64 for $199.50, which is considerably cheaper than Newegg's oem 3200+ and includes the heatsink. The socket 939 3200+ procs are the new Winchester core 90 nm procs too, which run quite a bit cooler than the older Newcastle core procs. I'm presently using only the retail hsf that came with my Winny 3000+ and I have it overclocked to over 2300 MHz and my temps run in the low to mid 40 C range when loaded, so you have quite a bit of overclocking headroom with them even with the retail hsf with the new process cpu's. AMD seems to have quite a bit better handle on heat production on the 90nm procs than Intel does with their Presshot P4's and I don't hesitate a bit to recommend them instead of a Newcastle core A64.
BTW, mwave.com is a good, reliable vendor also and I've dealt with them for several years. Generally they are a little more expensive than the egg but they will occasionally come up with a good deal like this. Their shipping is more expensive too but I just choose ground shipping and I get my stuff in 4-5 days anyways and minimizes my shipping costs.
ryko, I would recommend this Patriot DC memory kit instead of the Corsair memory due to the fact that it is the cheapest memory kit the Egg has that is using Samsung TCCD memory and using the Brainpower PCB's. Even if you aren't overclocking it, this ram will let you run lower timings than the Corsair you chose and it's not that much more expensive than the Corsair. Corsair's equivelant to the Patriot stuff costs around $270 or so.
Plus, what I posted about mwave.com having a much better price than the Egg on the Winny 3200+ procs holds true for you too and you can dispense with getting the Zalman until you decide(if you decide) to get ready to doing some serious overclocking.
As prof says you have the right one, but I would whole heartedly endorse what Muddoctor wrote. With the budget you now have you should really be looking at S939 cpus & motherboards, if you don't mind shopping around and can find a vendor, such as mwave, doing them for similar prices to socket 754.