Need info....how to run F@H, diskless.

dragonV8

If anyone has any good links or suggestions as to folding on a diskless computer, fire away.

We will have mobo, proc, ram, psu. No HD or OS.
Got room for another 20 or so computers network wise as i believe it runs through the network.

Been using Google to get info, but with every link i get more confused. Especially since linux is just another word to me. Know zilch about it.

Looked at overclockix. Looks to be the goods, however, very confusing.

So yes, any suggestions?????

Jon

shwaip

This link ( http://www.extremeoverclocking.com/articles/howto/FAH_Diskless_Farm_1.html ) was pretty good...a fair amount of linux stuff, but fairly well explained.

If you're going to run diskless nodes, you'll pretty much need to learn how to use linux. The best way to do that is to install it on a computer, and use it for a little while. Ask any questions in the linux forum...someone will help you.

I learned Linux using Fedora (Core 3 is the latest). IIRC Mandrake is also a good 'intro' distribution. Both are available for download at www.linuxiso.org.

dragonV8

Hi shwaip. Been looking at linux for some time now. Downloaded a few of the OS's, just have not had the nerve to have a go.

I't like dejavu to me, going back to the 80's with Dos and Basic. Frightening stuff for us oldies.

You are right in saying:"If you're going to run diskless nodes, you'll pretty much need to learn how to use linux".

I keep looking around to find one that a 5 yr old could use.

Keep the suggestions coming guys (and girls).

shwaip

One of the things that tends to turn people off about using linux is they think that they HAVE to use the command line interface (CLI henceforth) to do everything. Fedora has great tools that replace the CLI for most things...network/sound/graphics/etc setup. If you break X server (this is what displays the Graphical interface), you will need to use the CLI, but that's generally tough to do, and only possible if you're messing with certain files. Another thing that turns people off is compiling programs from source. Fedora has "yum" and "apt", similar to the windows add/remove programs...but it will download them if you don't have them. RPM (redhat package manager) is another tool for adding/removing packages (programs) that you have downloaded.

KingFish

20 or so computers? Are you trying for crawfish?
I'll keep an eye on this for ya. It has captured my interest too. I'll maybe add some nodes on the farm myself. I looked at this when I began planning my farm a year ago but deemed the learning curve too steep for me. I like my user friendly operating systems. I haven't dabbled in linux since mandrake version 8 and it wasn't that bad but my limited knowledge of it and lack of time to play with it lead me to uninstall it. I dig knoppix though, it's pretty neat. Keep us posted on what you find.

drasnor

Learning the CLI on Linux really isn't that bad. I used Macs for the first 12 years of my computer-wielding experience. My first PC had Windows ME. Find yourself a decent Linux book (I recommend the "No-BS Guide to Linux" as a primer) and read it, reference it, use it. I am a rocket scientist, but this is by no means rocket science;D.

That being said, Gentoo Linux has a lot of good documentation on their site on how to set up diskless nodes (using Gentoo as the base distribution). If you don't know Linux, you will by the time you finish installing Gentoo. The installation handbook walks you through the install and explains the configuration settings as you set them. Installing FAH on Gentoo is a breeze. Machines with no GUI use fewer resources, more for FAH.

Overclockix has scripts for nearly everything, just run the appropriate script (configure_folding, start_folding) and it does its thing. The major downside to Overclockix is that it doesn't have any permanent storage so if you have to reboot your configuration and WU go bye-bye.

-drasnor

redchief

would booting from a cd be an option? and autoexec straing to folding?

mmonnin

Overclockix is knoppix which is a bootable linux distro.

dragonV8

Thanks for the replies, guys. Had a really good look through Gentoo mentioned by drasnor. :shakehead

Even reading stuff in their forum is not that easy for us total nOOb.

1 part of an installation stated:"i won't bother with partitions as you should know about that". Right.......i'm a FULL nOOb, not 1/2 noob.

I can partition a pizza, not a hard drive. Bit like Thrax defragging the table at a restaurant one time.

What this means is i now need to find a similar linux proggie that fits on a cd, is bootable without installing on HD. I can play around with it on my granddaughter's PII 266.

If i use any other computer, it will stop folding for the duration and that won't happen with the fierce competition.

If all else fails, activate "Plan B".

Jon

mmonnin

Here you can download it:

http://overclockix.octeams.com/

profdlp

This Site may provide a few ideas. The author also mentions the link to EOC that shwaip provided as being an inspiration.

dragonV8

Thanks Marc & Prof.

I actually tried to D/L from Marc's link the other day but it must have been out of bandwidth. I'll try again.

Thanks for the link Prof. Now all we need is more $$$$ and learn Linux, hehehe.

profdlp

A little thread revival to see what our Folding experts who happen to be Linux experts as well think of this:

http://fold-server.sourceforge.net/

drasnor

It looks like it's a good quick solution (I really like the scripts that show progress on all the nodes) but it has some things about it I don't particularly care for:

First, it doesn't include iptables or an iptables-ready kernel so it requires you to set static routes on your network. This is a pain in the butt if you want to add more machines to your diskless Folding cluster later. The machine also runs an always-on TFTP server (a necessity for a diskless node server) but without iptables this is about as insecure as you can get. Second, for not having something basic like iptables it does have vncserver and a GUI which while nice for newbies aren't necessary for a headless server (in fact, you have to configure this thing from the command line anyway so who are they kidding?). Third, you have the same problems as with Overclockix in that the work units are stored in RAM on the client machines. If you reboot your diskless nodes (power outage?) then all the work units they have go wherever data in your RAM goes when you kill the power (data heaven?). Finally, the server has no provision for updating itself, so you'll have to manually update to the latest Folding binary and download the latest versions of your cores as they're released and make new ramdisks for your nodes.

In short, you get something that's easy to setup and run now in exchange for more work down the road. For something targetted at the ultimate Linux newbie it does the job admirably though power users will be left wanting the power and flexibility of a fully-fledged distro.

-drasnor

dragonV8

Good to see all the constructive feedback coming through.

Guess ultimately, it would be nice to have a ready-made Linux program setup, ready to go with all the bits needed to run diskless, or even a one-off to replace Windows.

This is especially good for the likes of us with no experience in Linux or programming of any sorts.

Thanks for keeping this going guys.

drasnor

dragonV8 wrote:

Guess ultimately, it would be nice to have a ready-made Linux program setup, ready to go with all the bits needed to run diskless, or even a one-off to replace Windows.

Unfortunately making a setup like this is always going to be a compromise between ease of initial setup and ease of long-term maintenance; as one goes up, the other usually falls. I wouldn't call myself a Linux guru, but as a power user I'm willing to spend more time up front configuring things if it means keeping the entire system up to date is only a few keystrokes.

Folding distros like Overclockix and now Fold Server take the approach of making the configuration very easy with the tradeoff of a completely static configuration. In the case of Overclockix, you get to download a new .ISO and burn a new CD when there's an update and from what I've seen of Fold Server from reading the documentation it seems it would be easier to format the hard drive and install the latest version of Fold Server if there's updates than to try to manually update it (there is no documentation for such a procedure). I used to run an Overclockix farm, but after going through several CD's to stay current I couldn't help but start looking for other ways to do this.

I choose Gentoo for my Linux smart nodes (have hard disks) because after completing the base install you have their awesome package manager and the bare minimum of software to make a functioning computer. Yes, it takes a _lot_ of by-hand configuring to work, but when you're done the machine is a completely blank slate; a couple commands make it a dedicated Folding machine, a couple more make it a dedicated router/firewall, and a few more a fully-fledged Linux graphical desktop. Keeping it current with the latest Linux security patches takes two commands. Compiling everything from source code takes longer initially but pays off in raw speed (optimizing for your machine's hardware cuts out the flab). If you have a weekend to spare and can follow a manual step by step then you can do this.

As I mentioned earlier, there's a Gentoo HOWTO (walkthrough) for setting up diskless nodes. I'm planning to check it out this summer when I have some time so I can rapidly add more machines to my cluster.

dragonV8 wrote:

Even reading stuff in their forum is not that easy for us total nOOb.

1 part of an installation stated:"i won't bother with partitions as you should know about that". Right.......i'm a FULL nOOb, not 1/2 noob.

Don't read the forums unless you have a problem. The installation handbook is here.

-drasnor

profdlp

A couple of dumb questions:

1) Could you set up each node to run off a partition on one shared and partitioned HD? As in an 80GB drive partitioned into ten 8GB partitions, each setup as a network shared virtual drive?

2) Could you run a diskless node which periodically backs up the current WU progress from the ramdrive to a file/folder/partition on one central shared drive?

3) (To dragonV8) Is your main goal to eliminate the expense of buying multiple HD's? If so, search eBay for "Lot Hard Drive" - you could buy a pack of ten ~4.3GB drives for peanuts. It would probably cost more to ship the Down Under than it did to buy them, but would still be far cheaper than ten brand new big HD's. Here are five 6GB HD's currently at $25US for the lot.

drasnor

Those are excellent questions imho.

1) Yes, but not using Fold Server. This is actually the suggested way of doing Gentoo diskless nodes.

2) Possibly, but it'd be a pain. A better solution would be to mount the 8GB partition for each machine as a network block device mounted at /. This means that the machine has a remote filesystem mounted as a local one a la Windows roaming profiles served from a domain controller. Whenever anything tries to read/write the mounted filesystem the read/write is performed on the server's hard drive in real-time.

-drasnor