noob question about ram....

edited May 2005 in Hardware
ok, i'm new to this forum, and have done a fair bit of browsing on the subject of overclocking, but figured 'if there is a community here already, why not join it??'

i've just finished my first pc build, and have been introduced to the world of overclocking, but i don't really have a lot of experience, so i have a bunch of questions.

the first is concerned with ram - i have just bought a Abit NF7-S V2.0 mobo, and intend to add an athlon xp 2500+ , but i was wondering about the memory.

the board will take pc3200, but will that be sufficient if i intend to overclock?

if not why not? (i gotta start somewhere!)

Comments

  • sfleurietsfleuriet Texas New
    edited April 2005
    i say don't overclock at all. you'll just end up ruining all your hardware.
  • ThraxThrax 🐌 Austin, TX Icrontian
    edited April 2005
    i say don't overclock at all. you'll just end up ruining all your hardware.

    Ignorant statement.

    Overclocking falls within vaguely-defined limits; that is to say, each piece of hardware has some identifiable elements to it (Silkscreened codes on the DIMMs, CPUIDs on the Athlons, empirical evidence with motherboards...) that tell experienced overclockers what speeds it will safely obtain. Combining it with other components and certain cooling will give us a general idea of what this hardware can do.

    For example..

    Name-brand performance PC3200 (Corsair XMS, Kingston HyperX, Crucial Ballistix, etc.), an NF7-S, and a Barton Athlon XP (2500, 2800, 3200) typically combine with the following performance settings for a <i>very</i> safe overclock:

    200 x 11 = 2.2GHz.

    The CPU won't need a voltage increase, and the memory will be running at its proper speed. In fact, what you've done is merely made the 2500 run at a 3200 which it probably could have been marketed at straight from the factory.

    If you want to get more aggressive, you can probably go to 220 x 10 or 220x10.5; the CPU will need a small voltage increase, as will the memory (Probably to 2.8v). If the computer is stable, you can push it a bit more, but it's unlikely.


    It's instinct.

    Very rarely does overclocking actually destroy hardware if you're very careful about what you're doing, and systematic in doing it.
  • NiGHTSNiGHTS San Diego Icrontian
    edited April 2005
    I'm currently running a 2500 Barton in my NF7-S v2, raven. The memory I've selected to overclock with was Corsair's XMS line, due to a recommendation by Thrax about a year ago. He definately is the guru on this particular motherboard.

    Unfortunately the Barton I picked up refuses to run faster without a small kick in the voltage department, but its nothing it can't handle.

    One thing I can advise is be aware of the timings and latency of the ram you are looking at, I almost bought a matched pair that had looser timings than the 512MBs I have now.
  • edited April 2005
    thanks for the info thrax.

    Pilotwings119 - did you have a bad experience you would like to share? I know the risks, that is why i am trying to get as much info as possible!
  • sfleurietsfleuriet Texas New
    edited April 2005
    ok i guess i shouldnt have said anything. i really don't know, but just figured someone new shouldn't try it. and no- i've never OC'd. sry
  • GrayFoxGrayFox /dev/urandom Member
    edited April 2005
    i say don't overclock at all. you'll just end up ruining all your hardware.

    Pretend this guy didnt post. Ive only had 1 problem with overclocking and it was a psu blew up (powermax crap).
  • sfleurietsfleuriet Texas New
    edited April 2005
    dude i already sed sorry and dont listen to what i said. you don't need to go and be smart about it.
  • Mt_GoatMt_Goat Head Cheezy Knob Pflugerville (north of Austin) Icrontian
    edited April 2005
    I agree with Thrax on the selection of memory for your board. I will work best with high quality Name brand RAM that can run 200fsb with C2.0-2-2 memory timings. It is the ability to run tight timings like I listed that will get you better performance than some PC4000 (250fsb) with C4-3-4 timings. I think Thrax and I went to scool together 30 years apart. ;)
  • edited April 2005
    thanks people, this is all very helpful.

    pilotwings - no offense taken, dude! :)

    corsair value select, giel value, kingmax?

    seem to be some good prices, but i guess performance is down. is the extra cost of quality brands worth the extra cost?
  • Private_SnoballPrivate_Snoball Dover AFB, DE, USA
    edited April 2005
    raven44 wrote:
    corsair value select, giel value, kingmax?

    seem to be some good prices, but i guess performance is down. is the extra cost of quality brands worth the extra cost?

    Hello there,

    I purchased Kingston Value RAM once, it sucked. If you purchase this, it will generate a lot of heat because they lack the heat spreaders that the more expensive sticks have. I bought Corsair XMS memory (1gb) for 240.00 dollars US and they have been awesome. I ended up having to buy the Value RAM, and the Corsair XMS later because the value RAM was horrible. If you intend on OCing you defenitly will want to spend the extra money to help keep heat down. Especially since OCing will cause more heat than usual and heat is your enemy.

    In short, look at the good stuff, but remember, price doesn't mean good all the time.

    The RAM I have can be found here http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=20-145-500&depa=1

    Good luck,
    Alex
  • edited April 2005
    raven44 wrote:
    corsair value select, giel value, kingmax?

    seem to be some good prices, but i guess performance is down. is the extra cost of quality brands worth the extra cost?

    If you can at all afford to get it, go with a TCCD chip based ram such as the OCZ PC3200 Platinum Rev2 or the Patriot XBLK series (just 2 examples of ddr using the Samsung TCCD chips) or you can go with the OCZ PC3200 Gold VX (or it's equivelant from other manufacturers). The Gold VX takes high voltages to run really tight timings but the TCCD based stuff will run tight timings with vdimm in the 2.7-2.9v range.
  • edited April 2005
    once again, thanks all.

    if the mobo can take up to pc3200, will it still be able to use faster, eg pc3500 and upwards?
    if so, what are the bnefits of using faster ram?
  • profdlpprofdlp The Holy City Of Westlake, Ohio
    edited April 2005
    raven44 wrote:
    ...if the mobo can take up to pc3200, will it still be able to use faster, eg pc3500 and upwards?
    Yep. :)
    if so, what are the benefits of using faster ram?
    If you overclock the FSB the ram will be better able to keep up with the higher speed.
  • edcentricedcentric near Milwaukee, Wisconsin Icrontian
    edited April 2005
    Most memory will run at better setting at lower speeds. For example, if the memory is rated to run 3700 (466, or 2x233) at latancies of 2.5, 3, 3; then it might run 2, 3, 3 at 200MHz. However, this isn't always the case so don't bet on it.

    http://anandtech.com/memory/showdoc.aspx?i=2392&p=16 Read this entire review. It will give you a good idea of the effect of memory speed and timings.

    The long and the short of it is how much do you want to spend? There is some real pricey memory out there. Or you could get the OCZ Premier 3200 and be assured fo getting a bit of overclock out of it at reasonable timings. All for a nice price.

    In the meantime there is plenty that you can do. The first thing is to figure out how high your memory will run. Set the cpu multiplier lower than stock and begin bumping up your memory settings. You can tighten the timings, you can raise the speed. You may need to raise the voltage also. Do things a little bit at a time. Run SuperPi as a test. You will see how fast it is and see if it is stable.

    Once you find the memory ceiling you can go to work on the cpu.

    Just be patient. This could take many evenings to work out. Dozens of re-boots and a few cmos restets does not make this quick work. But it can make for a quick computer.
  • edited April 2005
    One other thing raven44, if you don't already have the XP2500 proc. Buy a mobile XP2400-XP2600 proc instead of a desktop XP2500 proc because the multipliers on the mobile procs are still unlocked, unlike the desktop procs being produced nowdays. It will give you much more flexibility in overclocking if you can manipulate both fsb and multipliers. Plus the XP-M procs are cherry, hand sorted procs that are specially chosen because they can run their default speed with much lower vcore than the desktop versions. My XP-M 2400's and 2600 all are rated for a default 1.45v vcore compared to the desktop's default 1.65v vcore.
  • JustinJustin Atlanta
    edited April 2005
    All of the above are good points. Here is the recap:

    Get a mobile Barton

    You have a great board for this, the bios is VERY easy to manipulate

    TCCD chips are a must, you can get it done with anything, but do TCCD if you can afford it, it will give you the best results/flexability.

    Make sure you have a solid PSU preferably of the 450-480 Watt range from a reputable supplier (Antec, Thermaltake, ect.)

    Consider cooling, good airflow (minimizing cables) and two fans in per one fan out

    Most importantly, move the FSB/Multiplier/voltage in small incriments, this will save you from frying your board or other parts. That board's BIOS makes this very easy.

    Happy OC'ing!!! :thumbsup:
  • edited April 2005
    many thanks to all of you for the input, it has been very helpful!

    i have done a bit of research on the 2400 xp-m, and it seems to be a good option.
    one question: some of the forums i have read said that a mobile processor will read as an 'unknown cpu', even after a bios update.

    Does anyone know if this is the case? does it even matter!??
  • edited April 2005
    Yep, that's the case and it doesn't affect anything. It just has to do with the bridges cut to make it a mobile proc, but doesn't affect operation any in your mobo.
  • edited May 2005
    ok - the money situation has been slower than i hoped, but i have added 2x256 mb of ocz el platinum pc3200. :)
    while i am waiting on money, i will keep with the questions:

    i understand the benefits of faster ram, and that having ram capable of running at a higher FSB than the mobo specifies is ok.

    but the mobo says 400mhz FSB support - what is the relevance (if any) of this? does this restrict me from raising the FSB over 200?

    eg
    If you want to get more aggressive, you can probably go to 220 x 10 or 220x10.5; the CPU will need a small voltage increase, as will the memory (Probably to 2.8v). If the computer is stable, you can push it a bit more, but it's unlikely
  • profdlpprofdlp The Holy City Of Westlake, Ohio
    edited May 2005
    raven44 wrote:
    ...the mobo says 400mhz FSB support - what is the relevance (if any) of this? does this restrict me from raising the FSB over 200?...
    Not necessarily. If you'll look at your bios settings you will see choices like "FSB Frequency", "Memory Frequency", "Memory Timings", etc. The whole secret to the overclocking game is to find the balance between these different settings (along with things like bumping CPU + Memory voltage where needed) which gives the greatest overall gain from stock settings. The higher the capacity of the individual components, the greater your chances of pushing things to a higher speed. Quality ram is a good place to start. :D
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