Need help building a server please
First off a little background. Me and the guy I work with are going to launch a website. He is really good with code/photoshop/databases/etc..so we have that part in the hole. We already have the domain purchased as well. We are gonna try to host it in our office since we are an ISP and all.
We need a server to host the site and the database of customers, pics, etc. The OS we are going to run in some flavor of Linux as well. The site is going to rely heavily on the CPU of the server. Think of Ebay as an example. I know we are gonna run 1 gig of pc3200 ram, since I have 512 of it now. We don't need a realy super duty high end server, but something to get us up and going.
He is still working on the code, and should be ready with most of it by Sat. I would like to put in raid to mirror one partition so we have a backup and all.
I have never built anything like this, and anyone who has built a server or something like what we need, please chime in.
With our plans, people should be uploading content to the site pretty regularly so we don't need any hicups from the server end to mess with our customers.
We need a server to host the site and the database of customers, pics, etc. The OS we are going to run in some flavor of Linux as well. The site is going to rely heavily on the CPU of the server. Think of Ebay as an example. I know we are gonna run 1 gig of pc3200 ram, since I have 512 of it now. We don't need a realy super duty high end server, but something to get us up and going.
He is still working on the code, and should be ready with most of it by Sat. I would like to put in raid to mirror one partition so we have a backup and all.
I have never built anything like this, and anyone who has built a server or something like what we need, please chime in.
With our plans, people should be uploading content to the site pretty regularly so we don't need any hicups from the server end to mess with our customers.
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Comments
Very important things to consider about a server:
1) Get a SERVER motherboard. Do not build a "server" based on a desktop motherboard. You need features like power resume, ability to boot headless, layout for 1U cooling, etc.
2) This is not a gaming machine. Focus on what's important. Get a really nice Tyan board like the one we used for this server. Use Opterons - they are awesome server chips for less than Xeons. If you must use Intel, use a Xeon. Do not use a P4 or an A64. If your budget is less than ideal (Whose isn't?), find a cheap opteron 140. We built an Opteron 140 box for under $1000 last year. Use a passive heatsink and a good 1U case. The case will probably cost more than the processor. Use registered ECC ram. Uptime is the focus.
3) Think about buying RHEL (Red Hat Enterprise Linux). With a server, you don't want to be screwing around with dependencies and unsupported packages, etc. It's only $350, it's totally worth it for keeping up with security alone.
4) I'd wait on going pure 64 bit yet. RHEL 64bit is not nearly as easy to support as the 32bit version. We had a helluva time with this server.
5) Ya gotta spend some extra money to make it 100% reliable. Don't scrimp on this part of it. If you spend the money now, you will make it back dozens of times over. If you try to save a few bucks and get substandard stuff, it will bite you in the ass down the road. Downtime can cost a LOT of money - more than you would have spent by getting better hardware in the beginning.
good luck man! I'm rootin' for ya!
I forgot to mention we are going to make it rackmount. I am going to look around Newegg to kind of get some prices so that we can see what kind of budget we have.
So you suggest a 1u case?
I get my 1U cases at servercase.com and my heatsinks at rackmountpro.com. They always help me out and I get personal service at both shops.
this man speaks the truth
I have never done anything withi Scsi so that should be fun, haha.
Does this motherboard seem to be a good place to start? I had also looked into -this memory for the server.
I guess our goal is below 1k, since we are going 50/50 in this whole thing. I can't wait to get the code done and all, gonna be fun times coming up.
One other weird thing to keep in mind:
When you get a passive 1U heatsink, you have to make sure it's oriented the correct way for the airflow. For example rackmountpro has this 1u passive that is oriented horizontally. By that, I mean the mounting holes are parallel with the fins. For some motherboards, depending on how they have the cpu oriented, you need vertical fins, cause the cpu sockets are turned 90 degrees and the fins would actually be blocking the airflow.
You can benefit from my bad experiences
Did you see the MSI dual opteron MB I have for sale in the deals and trading section?
Here...
http://www.short-media.com/forum/showthread.php?t=32687
It's meant to be rack mounted really. onboard video, dual gigabit nics etc.. It's like around half price what you pay for a new one.
I could make you a package with cpu's and reg ecc ram etc if you wanted. Remember a server MB almost always requires REG ECC DDR. I have two pairs of opterons. Both 240's and 242's. scsi drives.. You name it. I got it. I mean heck I could send it to you with Linux installed and ready to go if you wanted. (grin)
One more piece of advice to follow Primes suggestions. Most of these dual opterons anymore are eatx. Meaning they are BIG. None of the dual cpu boards (xeon or opteron) I have bought lately have fit well in my pretty rack cases I had already bought before. Be careful lthat your MB will fit well in the case you buy.
Tex
Edit: The link in your thread doesn't work anymore Tex.
I fixed the link. The fellow bought, or says he is buying, one of the opteron boards. I have two more right now. Both cost a little more but have a lot more pci and pci-x slots also.
he bought the one in the right on the link. I have two of the ones on the left also.
Tex
This is going to be a full blown service that we are going to offer. It is going to be all of the U.S at first, but we have talked about going global, depending on how good we start off really. So we have a lot of things to do as far as marketing, buying a zip code database, etc..
Right now we are working on it in our off hours. He does all of the code from his house, but he also sneaks some time in during office hours if we are not that busy.
Well since we are gonna have to go rackmount, I would need the FT, but if he bought it, that's cool.
Most people over build servers, in anticipation of growth, or just not realizing how much common hardware can do. In reality, the vast majority of what I come in contact with works very well on entry hardware. For $400-$800 bucks you should be able to 1U something that will work. Once you overcome a basic machine, you should have a really good picture of what you need to change, or how you need to cluster.
Another school of thought is to build cheap and replace often. When a cheap server fails in a year, usually by then you want to replace it anyway. Using the money you saved from parts that run 4-5 years you can sometimes build 3 or 4 machines. Remember, this stuff gets cheaper fast as new stuff comes out
Just for example, this is a known working config. I would strongly recommend RHEL like primesuspect, or CentOS.
Known working parts
http://secure.newegg.com/Oldversion/app/WishR.asp?ID=1521457
Other stuff you need
http://ipccase.com/product.asp?pID=447&cID=30
You pick the CPU, socket A (2400 sempron works ok)
Options
slim cd (this board does not usb boot)
slim adapter
http://www.logicsupply.com/product_info.php/cPath/47_69/products_id/108
riser for pci
http://www.logicsupply.com/product_info.php/cPath/47_68/products_id/189
Gigabit nic in the pci is nice too for a local network
Buy them from anywhere, these were just quick links. As for the setup, I would use one system drive and one backup drive unless you have another place to backup. Raid is not a backup. period. This will run RHEL and FreeBSD. Also, the chaintec I/O shield can be made to fit the 1U or just leave it off. Most other I/O shields cannot.
This should give you a base line to decide what you need to build. If you think you are going to saturate the CPU, Disk, etc go from there. Also, I use configs like this as cluster nodes. If you want to build a HA system, you can start small and add machines to cover the load. For example, if you start using a lot of DB you can add a dedicated database machine and still spend less than one enterprise grade platform. Same for web serving, etc etc. But, by this time you will probably need to move from the office and to the datacenter.
Huh? The only differance is the number of pci-x slots. The ones I still have available have three pci-x slots not one, and also have pci slots.
They cut all the extra stuff out on the FT because they didnt think they were needed for many 1u or 2u rack systems. The FT is a cut down cheaper version with less slots.
Tex
Tex
Building your own is all well and good but in a business environment where up time is a absolute must having a warranty is key.
The DL380 will handle 6 scsi lv u320 drives, many gig of ecc ram, redundant power, 24 hour turn around or less on replacement parts, smart array 6i raid controller that will do multi arrays and HP supports linux.
I build call loggers that are required to run 24/7/365. I use a variety of machines from scratch built to complete hp boxes. I recommend...
1. Redundant power
2. redundant drives, raid 1 OS, raid 5 storage as a min.. if you can swing redundant drives all the way around then do it.
3. ecc ram
4. did I mention redundant... If you are going to be hosting customer data, "sorry our machine failed all your data is gone" is not an answer that will get you repeat business.
5. BACKUP, some kind of tape drive or nas or san.
fail over is a must when providing services to a customer, I go so far as to have a second machine that everthing replicates to, a nice fail over machine which does not have to be as beefy as the primary box, just enough to maintain services if the primary goes down...
my .02
Don't buy a case until you get a motherboard. Your getting the cart before the horse.
I have dual opteron motherboards that don't fit into my rack cases because of where the second cpu is located keeps you from having a cdrom mounted etc.
Most opterons don't fit standard atx cases. They are eatx. (read very BIG) and you have trouble at times depending on the MB even in a supposed eatx case.
If your looking for a MB yes I have one also if thats your question.
Tex
Check the dell refurb section! Great deals at times. Inventory changes HOURLY so keep checking. They warranty it just like a brand new one.
he said they were hosting their own website. And seem to be on a shoestring budget hence the "build my own server".
If they intend to host other peoples sites or clients buisness stuff GET A REAL PREBUILT SERVER from Dell or HP. There is a reason corporate america generally doesnt build their own servers from parts.
warranty and service. repeat those last three words 1000 times before continuing.
I build my own servers. They run 24/7. I build them to do that. But if one craps out..... Big phucking deal. I can wait to buy parts or whatever. My house is a lab. But nothing is mission critical here.
Tex
It is gonna be abou, that is until we think we might need a server that is. The site might take off ( sooner the better ) and we might need to look into our own servers. But then again, we don't plan to launch the site until Jan, so we might go another route. We are still open for opinions though.