Whats the deal with cell processors?

tmh88tmh88 Pittsburgh / Athens, OH
edited November 2005 in Hardware
I'm going to be buying one of the new consoles coming out soon (xbox 360 or ps3), so I've been reading about them to see which one will buy. Anyway I've been reading that ps3 is using a cell processor, but I have no clue what that is.

According to this source GameSpy They say.....

"Cell, scheduled to hit the market in late 2004 or early 2005, differs notably from current processors. This finely crafted chunk of silicon will contain multiple chips within a single unit, and will be able to perform in excess of one trillion mathematical calculations a second. Put into perspective, that makes it approximately 100 times more powerful than a 2.5 GHz Pentium 4 CPU! "

it also says "Cell computing will also facilitate a distributed style of networking that performs computing tasks in much the same way a cell phone network routes calls. Thus, for example, the PlayStation 3 will be able to use its broadband Internet connection to draw additional computing power from idle processors across the Internet". Kinda reminds me of trusted computing.

Ok so if it really can do 1 tirillion calculations per second why aren't all computers using cell processors. That doesn't make any sence, over 100 times more powerful than a 2.5ghz p4. If its so powerful then why arent we using them? makes no sence. Could somebody please tell me what a cell processor is and how it generally works?

thanks :cheers:

Comments

  • gibbonslgibbonsl Grand Forks AFB
    edited November 2005
  • tmh88tmh88 Pittsburgh / Athens, OH
    edited November 2005
    thanks, and are cell processors already in use? what type of electronics currently use cell processors if they are out on the market.
  • TheBaronTheBaron Austin, TX
    edited November 2005
    no, not yet. the major market force behind the creation of cell has been the upcoming Sony PS3, but they're slated for use in other major electronics appliances as well (like TVs) in order to improve HDTV decoding and picture quality, stuff like that.
  • tmh88tmh88 Pittsburgh / Athens, OH
    edited November 2005
    Are cell processors really as fast as they claim. like up to 100 times faster than a 2.5 p4 because that just doesn't make sense.
  • GrayFoxGrayFox /dev/urandom Member
    edited November 2005
    The cell processer is almost impostable to program for, It will cause the falure of the ps3.

    And it will only be as fast as they claim if you code is super effcient and uses 100 threads +.
  • GobblesGobbles Ventura California
    edited November 2005
    tmh88 wrote:
    Are cell processors really as fast as they claim. like up to 100 times faster than a 2.5 p4 because that just doesn't make sense.

    They are like the variable array or the processor world. I know one of the main engineers on the cell processor.
  • GobblesGobbles Ventura California
    edited November 2005
    GrayFox wrote:
    The cell processer is almost impostable to program for, It will cause the falure of the ps3.

    And it will only be as fast as they claim if you code is super effcient and uses 100 threads +.

    bah not true.
  • tmh88tmh88 Pittsburgh / Athens, OH
    edited November 2005
    alright, thanks for the info guys

    :cheers:
  • GrayFoxGrayFox /dev/urandom Member
    edited November 2005
    Gobbles wrote:
    bah not true.


    Ok I may over exaggerated a bit on the 100+ threads its accuraly 8 + threads.

    But its still painfull to code for.
  • NightwolfNightwolf Afghanistan Member
    edited November 2005
    You chosen on which one your going to get yet?
  • tmh88tmh88 Pittsburgh / Athens, OH
    edited November 2005
    I really liked xbox because of the much more user friendly interfaces. Xbox live is so much better than ps2's online gaming. Its basically like comparing using windows, to DOS. PS2's online gaming didnt have much to offer, and thats what I mainly played. Im also a big halo fan, and there will be a halo 3, although I was also a big fan of hte grand theft auto series, which will be on ps3 for the first year or 2 and then release on 360. I've also heard rumors that ps3 will cost a minimum of $400-450, while xbox 360 starts at $300. Xbox overall impresses me alot more than ps2, but since these are 2 whole new systems I cant say yet, but as of now, im probably going to go for 360(i played it in eb a few times and it is awsome.) I dont think I'm going to be able to wait until next summer for ps3, so ill probably get a 360.
  • GrayFoxGrayFox /dev/urandom Member
    edited November 2005
    PS3 Will not survive.

    No devloper in there right mind will waste the time and money on devloping a game that runs on the cell the main reason being becuse if they want to port it to anything else they will have to complettly recode the engine.


    Code that runs on the ps3 will not run effciently on ANY other platform.


    Edit: Not to mention it will be priced higher then the xbox 360.
  • RWBRWB Icrontian
    edited November 2005
    GrayFox wrote:
    PS3 Will not survive.

    No devloper in there right mind will waste the time and money on devloping a game that runs on the cell the main reason being becuse if they want to port it to anything else they will have to complettly recode the engine.


    Code that runs on the ps3 will not run effciently on ANY other platform.


    Edit: Not to mention it will be priced higher then the xbox 360.

    So how's that differ all that much from porting any game console to PC? Look at Halo for ****s sake! When it was released so many people had issues with performance. And to be frank, if they would have just BUILT it for the PC, then it would run a hell of a lot better period cuase it doesn't need as much power as it seems to take.

    I personally think the PS3 will be a big hit, and it's already looking like it has a hell of a game lineup.
  • tmh88tmh88 Pittsburgh / Athens, OH
    edited November 2005
    GrayFox wrote:
    PS3 Will not survive.

    No devloper in there right mind will waste the time and money on devloping a game that runs on the cell the main reason being becuse if they want to port it to anything else they will have to complettly recode the engine.


    Code that runs on the ps3 will not run effciently on ANY other platform.


    Edit: Not to mention it will be priced higher then the xbox 360.

    Actually I read a few articles saying many developers started making games for 360, and when they heard about PS3's hardware they completely scrapped their projects and changed over to ps3 to release the game on. I'll find some of the articles.
  • GargGarg Purveyor of Lincoln Nightmares Icrontian
    edited November 2005
    I've heard that the 360 is hard to program for. Not saying that the PS3 is any easier, but I am saying difficulty to program is sort of a non-issue. Developers just want to know if the console will make their game look good and if they're reaching a big enough audience. I think the 360 and PS3 will both do that.
  • GrayFoxGrayFox /dev/urandom Member
    edited November 2005
    RWB wrote:
    So how's that differ all that much from porting any game console to PC? Look at Halo for ****s sake! When it was released so many people had issues with performance. And to be frank, if they would have just BUILT it for the PC, then it would run a hell of a lot better period cuase it doesn't need as much power as it seems to take.

    I personally think the PS3 will be a big hit, and it's already looking like it has a hell of a game lineup.

    All you have to do is recompile the binary to port things from one platform to another.

    However in the case of the cell it involves rewriting the whole engine.
  • airbornflghtairbornflght Houston, TX Icrontian
    edited November 2005
    yeh. the cell processor is a multi core processor. it can handle a lot of threads.

    its been described as a supercomputer on a chip. i think that it will do well.

    i mean. if people want good graphics and smart ai, the the developers will code for it. i mean this country is ran off of supply and demand. if there is a high demand for the games. then there will be a supply for them, if they didnt code for it then that would be bad market strategy and they would be loosing money.
  • GrayFoxGrayFox /dev/urandom Member
    edited November 2005
    Theres not as much money to be made for devlopers that release games for the ps3 because the code wont run /or wont run effciently on any other platform.
    (Why limit your self to one console that will probably be #2 in market share when you can have code that will run on 5 platforms*Xbox 360,Nintendo revolution,mac os x,linux and good old windows*.) In the past all you had to do to port something recompile it and do some mild debuging. (Also sometimes change the rendering api from direct X to open gl)
  • drasnordrasnor Starship Operator Hawthorne, CA Icrontian
    edited November 2005
    Most releases out there now are single-console exclusive or already completely different games with the same name across multiple platforms so I don't really see your point GrayFox. That bit about recompiling is also :bs: because of completely different architectures (the RISC MIPS processor on a PS2 is a vector processor, substantially different than the CISC P3 in an Xbox and from the RISC PowerPC in a GameCube). Endianness issues have to be observed when porting back and forth between PowerPC and x86 as well as a myriad of other concerns. Also, a non-trivial amount of console code is written in assembly and not compiled from high-level languages that are easily portable even if the architectures were remotely similar.

    From an engineering perspective, Cell has a lot to offer for tasks that lend themselves well to massive parallelization like matrix operations. Since all physics algorithms and graphics manipulations are matrix operations (eg Navier-Stokes stress-strain relations for material deformations, direction cosine matrices for orientation of bodies in space, etc.) you're looking at a highly efficient physics processor. With Cell's superscalar nature if you don't have enough power to handle your operations in real time just add more Cells to your LAN.

    The reason we don't use them now for everything is because they're too new and because there aren't enough of them out there for Microsoft to code an OS for them. Luckily if Sony keeps their word Linux will pick up the ball and run just fine on Cell (even on the PS3) whereas Microsoft will do their best to prevent you from running Linux and Nintendo seems to only be in the business of making toys these days.

    -drasnor :fold:
  • airbornflghtairbornflght Houston, TX Icrontian
    edited November 2005
    good information in that thread.

    learned some stuff that i didnt know yet.
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