Leaked Internal ATI Documents...

SimGuySimGuy Ottawa, Canada
edited September 2003 in Science & Tech
Leaked Internal ATI Documents...

Looks like NVidia isn't the only one up to tainting benchmarks...

In what can only be described as a blow to ATI, internal confidential information regarding the "GET IN THE GAME" ATI Marketing Team has been leaked onto the internet.

Essentially, by paying off (well, sending marketing dollars to certain individuals of the benchmarking community), ATI gets its way with how benchmarks fly against competitive products. Makes sense, as most companies don't just toss around money to reviewers/companies for the simple pleasure of charity.

Take it for what you wish, but this does shade a little light (pun intended) on what happens in the fast-paced graphics industry.

Source: Rage3D Forums & Elite Bastards

Comments

  • SimGuySimGuy Ottawa, Canada
    edited September 2003
    2.
  • TheSmJTheSmJ
    edited September 2003
    I dunno. The document itself looks a little too "flashy" to be real. Also, something of this nature, one would think, would have been released long ago.

    Looks more like "Get in our game" to me.
  • ThraxThrax 🐌 Austin, TX Icrontian
    edited September 2003
    Documents like this are often distributed on unique letterheads, or are printed out from powerpoint slides which receive flashy backgrounds as these have.
  • muddocktormuddocktor
    edited September 2003
    It very well could be true, but I bet you that it isn't anything Nvidia hasn't done also.
  • pseudonympseudonym Michigan Icrontian
    edited September 2003
    Whatever sells the stuff. NVidia has done it also prolly. Its not like the cards are slouches, so I could care less if they massage a thing or two.
  • TemplarTemplar You first.
    edited September 2003
    Why wouldn't they attempt this? With nVidia getting all the accusations, no one's going to suspect ATi if their benchmarks give a few extra hundred marks in 3dmark01. If true, it wouldn't surprise me in the least.

    So who's up for switching to XGI? :)
  • CammanCamman NEW! England Icrontian
    edited September 2003
    who cares. ATi cards have shown without benchmark influence that they're solid performers anyway. And I dont interpret "Influence benchmarks in ATI's favor" as "OMG PAY OFF EVERYONE TO GIVE US BETTER BENCHMARKS" they already know they have the market, it's not a big deal
  • ThraxThrax 🐌 Austin, TX Icrontian
    edited September 2003
    No, they really don't have the market. nVidia's profit is still roughly DOUBLE ATI's profit. Let's not even get into nVidia's dominating market share...

    I bet most of you were pointing the finger at ATI for being heretics when they committed their quack3 debacle.

    Oh, but you weren't?

    Then why were most of you rolling your eyes and pointing fingers at nVidia for their 3dmark scandal?

    You were either or. I know I was...I was laughing my ass off at ATI for committing such a blatant mistake. Then I got a chance to laugh and shake my head at nVidia a few times, now its ATI's turn again.


    "Influence benchmarks in ATI's favor" is everything nVidia did, and you all condemned them for. Good god. Hypocrites.
  • CammanCamman NEW! England Icrontian
    edited September 2003
    nah actually when all that stuff was going on with the nvidia "scandals" I had the same attitude, who cares, because honestly we all know what goes on with the marketing hype with ALL of these companies.
  • a2jfreaka2jfreak Houston, TX Member
    edited September 2003
    Is it just me? (actually I know it's not because of seen this other places) but the benchmarking by frame-rates-type of benchmark is fading, in my opinion. Sure, it still holds relevance because obviously frame-rates need to be high enough to trick our eyes into thinking we're seeing a nice smooth flow of video, but once that's achieved we don't need more. Who needs 150fps in a game? Unfortunately, there isn't a way to objectively test games to see which image is the most clear/brilliant/vibrant/beautiful/insert-other-positive-adjectives. All this will have to be subjective. Maybe that's ATI's idea--to "influence" game reviews to give the quality-of-image produced by an ATI card higher marks than produced by an nVidia card, even if it is not the case.

    Ahhh . . . it's good to not be a gamer. :)
  • EnverexEnverex Worcester, UK Icrontian
    edited September 2003
    a2jfreak said
    Is it just me? (actually I know it's not because of seen this other places) but the benchmarking by frame-rates-type of benchmark is fading, in my opinion. Sure, it still holds relevance because obviously frame-rates need to be high enough to trick our eyes into thinking we're seeing a nice smooth flow of video, but once that's achieved we don't need more. Who needs 150fps in a game? Unfortunately, there isn't a way to objectively test games to see which image is the most clear/brilliant/vibrant/beautiful/insert-other-positive-adjectives. All this will have to be subjective. Maybe that's ATI's idea--to "influence" game reviews to give the quality-of-image produced by an ATI card higher marks than produced by an nVidia card, even if it is not the case.

    Ahhh . . . it's good to not be a gamer. :)

    Yes, but new games dont run at 150fps do they, and only HL2 they seem to struggle to get 40.

    NS
  • a2jfreaka2jfreak Houston, TX Member
    edited September 2003
    That's why it's slowly migrating to quality from fps, not there already. Give it another 18-24 months and I think the hardware will be very capable of handling just about anything we throw at it (within reason).
  • GHoosdumGHoosdum Icrontian
    edited September 2003
    NightShade737 said
    Yes, but new games dont run at 150fps do they, and only HL2 they seem to struggle to get 40.

    NS

    Sure, they may struggle to get 40... but we need 30 to make it seem like live-motion. So who cares if it's 40 or 150, as long as it looks good?

    And how can we confirm that those "leaked documents" are legit from ATi anyway? Not that it doesn't piss me off... if it's true, then it makes ATi no better than nVidia from an ethical standpoint.
  • SimGuySimGuy Ottawa, Canada
    edited September 2003
    Elite Bastards have received an official response to the leaked slides from ATI's own Patti Mikula, Senior Public Relations Manager of Desktop Products:

    http://www.elitebastards.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=25491
    A competitor is distributing select slides from an internal ATI presentation which, out of context, can portray ATI in a negative light. To clarify our stance on developer relations, ATI offers the following comment:

    ATI encourages game developers to adopt new industry standards. Benchmarks that use standard APIs - or almost any benchmark that reflects real-world game play - show ATI products in a good light because our performance is much faster than competing products in any standard code path. However, ATI's interests are aligned with those of gamers. Industry standard APIs, such as DirectX 9, allow developers more time to concentrate on game play and developing new features. Standard APIs help them incorporate the latest and best graphics into their games and get them into the hands of gamers more quickly.

    Unfortunately whoever is distributing this presentation chose not to include the remaining slides in the deck which explain our position more clearly. In fact, the very next slide comprised these points:

    ATI is making a long term investment spending resources wisely on industry standards to ensure all current and future games and other applications will run well

    - ATI hardware is future proof.

    ATI is focusing on the open standards that developers are also working towards.

    -The best performance with all games not just a selection.
    -Top performance across all benchmarks.

    ATI is building long term relationships with co-operation, communication, co-ordination, consideration and trust.

    -Developers adopt features faster to create more demand for upgrading.
    -Future proof hardware
    -Less support calls.
    -More sales and positive reviews - due to reputation for games working out of the box.


    Patti Mikula
    Public Relations Manager
    Desktop Products
    ATI Technologies Inc.
  • primesuspectprimesuspect Beepin n' Boopin Detroit, MI Icrontian
    edited September 2003
    "ATI hardware is future proof"

    :rolleyes:

    pfff.. name a piece of future proof hardware besides a keyboard or a mouse......
  • GHoosdumGHoosdum Icrontian
    edited September 2003
    Not even kb and mice are future proof... to my mind, every mouse with a ball is obsolete, as is the AT keyboard.
  • CammanCamman NEW! England Icrontian
    edited September 2003
    hehe I remember when I got my optical mouse in December 2000 and they were just getting to be the "big thing" . Seriously though, optical mice are cheap enough now, and come with most computers standard, there really is no reason to use a ball mouse, the optical has eliminated so much frustration and time of cleaning those little rollers!
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