MRAM or DDRII, who will make it?

RWBRWB Icrontian
edited September 2003 in Hardware
I have been hearing MRAM and DDRII will be coming out in the same year, within a year. Usually one beats out the other while one becomes top notch and... well we all know what happened with RDRAM, but that RAM sucked anyways.

This MRAM looks VERY sweet, and I would preferr it if it came through becuase to me it is next generation, even if it comes out at first being slower than DRRII, over the course of it's existance the engineers will find new ways of making it faster and better like DDR did from PC2100(which just sucks now) to PC 5000 or so now.

I personally like the idea of Magnetic Memory rather than the transistor/capasator type we have now that is Volitile. Static RAM is the future, and I believe that as technology progesses it may even come into our systems as a Storage Device for our programs rather than just memory.

I can imagine in less than 10 years a computer gaming system with no moving parts, not even a Hard Drive, except maybe for backups or extra space. I can see Computers using it's Main System Memory as both Memory and Storage of our Operating System and Program Storage for a very amazing speed.

No moving parts, no sound, no problems.

Then after 10 years, I just can't imagine anything beyond that as Silicon will have begun to reach it's max and we will have to think of new methods to get speed out of our systems, or go to an entirely new concept such as Quantum Computers or DNA which I would think is maybe 20 years off. But what about the period in between though? I am sure we can pull extra speed out of our systems, but all systems would have to be cooled with something extreme. If so, then we would be forced to invent new methods for safer cooling, which in the end could yield amazing new technologies for the future of our future.

I can see 30 years easily though, will the government allow Quantum Computers to Exist? Certain resitrictions implaced to keep our systems from being too powerful until they can create a safer, more protected area for their Information? DNA Computers perhaps, not actually made of DNA but replicating it's design and process.

Would we even have Graphics Cards? Holographic Displays are already coming, there are many versions, all not up to the standards of Star Trek, but as time progresses, who knows. Old style Virtual Reality, or even perhaps a Playstation 9 type of experience.

TV gives us the ideas we want to shoot for and we tend to recreate them, the TriCorder from Star Trek has been replicated, not with the same technology but it can do some similar features, and that was a long time ago. Teleporters, Hover Cars, Rockets, Solar Sails, Fictional books of Nuclear devices were made before any Nuclear Project was even concieved of.

We can see tomorrow as a new day of having the same system we have now, or maybe an upgraded part. But beyond tomorrow you just don't know! I know most of us have thought the same things I have thought, but this began as a normal Question of which memory type will make it through the market and win out and turned into a bit of a Rant. So I don't know if this should be Off Topic or still in Hardware.
:ninja:

Comments

  • primesuspectprimesuspect Beepin n' Boopin Detroit, MI Icrontian
    edited September 2003
    DDR-II will be here long before MRAM is a viable product. MRAM is amazing and really cool, but it seems as if its in the perpetual "Five Years Away" category.
  • gtghmgtghm New
    edited September 2003
    RWB said
    well we all know what happened with RDRAM, but that RAM sucked anyways.

    I would just like to point out that I think you are mistaken.
    RDRAM was the superior technology from all of the stuff that I have read. As I understand it the problem with RDRAM was not because it wasn't better but because Rambus wanted to keep its technology to close to the vest and charge too much to manufactures for the agreements to allow the use of their technology.
    It was more like a Beta vs. VHS thing... Beta was easily the better format but it was too stubborn with its rights to the technology that it couldn't be brought to the masses cheap enough to allow it to penitrate the market the way VHS did.

    It took DDR to go from 2100 to 3200 to just get to the throughput of the RDRAM 800, I beleive... I know that the 1066 was smoken fast...

    It is too bad that they didn't go further. I admit that Its been awhile since I've read up on memory, haven't had to buy any new stuff yet... lol so I could be a little off on how it compares to the newer DDR400 and DDRII stuff but until about 8 months to a year ago (which I know is an eternity in the computer biz) Rambus was king...

    "g"
  • a2jfreaka2jfreak Houston, TX Member
    edited September 2003
    Yeah, it wasn't so much that RDRAM sucked that it is no longer popular/used for PCs, it's because RAMBUS was a pretty crappy company. Maybe not as bad as SCO, but I wouldn't say it would be wrong to put them in the same category as each other.

    I think RDRAM is still used in routers and other devices.
  • RWBRWB Icrontian
    edited September 2003
    I used RDRAM and while it did take DDR a while to catch up, it now has equal and BEYOND the memory bandwidth RDRAM was. On top of that, RDRAM was like 40ns RAM, my memory I am getting today is 4.5ns to 5ns, with even more bandwidth, on top of that in Dual Channel Memory Mode which it will be in, it will rule even more over RDRAM.

    Now lets look at one other thing, I said that DDR vs. RDRAM the winner was DDR, even if RDRAM was/is better, it just couldn't hold up. When I bought RDRAM it wasn't much more than DDR, so I didn't and still don't see the whole OVER priced issue that many claimed. And DDR at the time was about 30% slower, so you take that into account RDRAM was worth it, at the time I suppose. However, as DDR333 came around that gap became a fine line, very fine line. Then DDR400 came and BAM RDRAM is history, PC1066 or not.
  • a2jfreaka2jfreak Houston, TX Member
    edited September 2003
    PC1066 isn't RDRAM's top. Not sure what is, but I know there is at least PC1200. I believe PC1200 runs on a 32-bit bus so that puts it (bandwidth-wise) 50% faster than DDR400.
  • gtghmgtghm New
    edited September 2003
    Well since Intel officaly dumped Rambus they didn't persue the R&D of improving the Rambus technology.
    I'm sure that as you pointed out they would have used much faster chips. The limitations of Rambus and the ability to output all that bandwidth because an issue for the CPU and memory controller to be able to efficently make use of all that bandwidth not of the memory itself...

    It would be interesting to see what the memory bandwidth could do on the operton 64's which have the memory controller on board the CPU...
  • RWBRWB Icrontian
    edited September 2003
    I have never seen it nor heard of it. The really down side to RDRAM to me was that you could not overclock it, it ran hot as hell, there was little to no room for future progression of the memory type, severely limited in what you could put it on.

    Going from PC800 to 1066 meant a whole new MB, DDR on the other hand can work in pretty much any system, a PC2100 supported system may not be able to run at PC3200 levels, but at least you have memory that works in it at whatever speed it can work at.

    RDRAM's progression was through big changes in the way it wa made, IE you meantioned the Bus change in Bit rate and all that, meaning a different memory controller, meaning new motherboard.

    Now your telling me it was the manufacturer's fault, well ok then, how does this change anything? If it were a decent company and put out decent memory archetecture, then I may not say it sucked. In the end DDR won the battle, it won me over, and I would never turn back to RDRAM unless it was actually better.
  • RWBRWB Icrontian
    edited September 2003
    This is good debate BTW!
  • RWBRWB Icrontian
    edited September 2003
    gtghm said
    Well since Intel officaly dumped Rambus they didn't persue the R&D of improving the Rambus technology.
    I'm sure that as you pointed out they would have used much faster chips. The limitations of Rambus and the ability to output all that bandwidth because an issue for the CPU and memory controller to be able to efficently make use of all that bandwidth not of the memory itself...

    It would be interesting to see what the memory bandwidth could do on the operton 64's which have the memory controller on board the CPU...

    Possibly... however, the problem lies in that the Opteron's don't support RDRAM, only DDR right? This could mean with RDRAM technology that if theyc ame out with something better, that you would possibly need not only a new CPU supporting the Memory, but a new Motherboard supporting the new CPU and/or Memory Module. This is the Numero Uno reason why I don't like RDRAM.
  • gtghmgtghm New
    edited September 2003
    RWB said
    I have never seen it nor heard of it. The really down side to RDRAM to me was that you could not overclock it, it ran hot as hell, there was little to no room for future progression of the memory type, severely limited in what you could put it on.

    Going from PC800 to 1066 meant a whole new MB, DDR on the other hand can work in pretty much any system, a PC2100 supported system may not be able to run at PC3200 levels, but at least you have memory that works in it at whatever speed it can work at.

    RDRAM's progression was through big changes in the way it wa made, IE you meantioned the Bus change in Bit rate and all that, meaning a different memory controller, meaning new motherboard.

    Now your telling me it was the manufacturer's fault, well ok then, how does this change anything? If it were a decent company and put out decent memory archetecture, then I may not say it sucked. In the end DDR won the battle, it won me over, and I would never turn back to RDRAM unless it was actually better.


    I don't disagree with much of anything that you posted here. Most of it is true... Except one thing...
    It is a known fact that the archetecture and technology of Rambus is/was the best of memorys at the time...
    It was through most of the other things that killed it...
    Were not talking about popularity, were talking about the best....

    "g"
  • gtghmgtghm New
    edited September 2003
    however, the problem lies in that the Opteron's don't support RDRAM, only DDR right? This could mean with RDRAM technology that if theyc ame out with something better, that you would possibly need not only a new CPU supporting the Memory, but a new Motherboard supporting the new CPU and/or Memory Module. This is the Numero Uno reason why I don't like RDRAM. [/B]

    I think that you're right about that, but if Rambus hadn't been so hard headed about their technology...
    But you hit on the very reasons that the gave Rambus a bad name...

    Although I would like to point out that even AMD has glossed over changes to their technologys that have forced buyers to throw away their older parts for new...
    A ton of used PC2100 DDR went on the market when the 333FBS and 400FBS boards came out... Sure it is true that they buit in backwords compatibility but the performance hit for that was too much for most people to except when buying a new board....
  • RWBRWB Icrontian
    edited September 2003
    OK I have no clue on memory archetecture, I am no engineer. But popularity is where it is all at. RDRAM may be more advanced, but appearently not enough. I suppose it is like life, in how the most simple lifeforms are usually the ones to live through big events like armogeddon or something.

    Would you say that the Pentium 4 is more advanced than an Athlon XP? Hard to say? So many are inclined to say the Athlon XP is far more advanced becuase it is faster than a P4 at lower Clock speed, but that is simply it's effeicency. Is the Athlon XP not based on older models of Athlons? The P4 is more advanced becuase it has more transistors, and with the Intel Extreme, it has MUCH MORE due to it's new and so called Improved 2MB extra of L3 cache.

    YET! This new P4EE doesn't work but a small percentage faster than it's own later P4. Athlon's still rule over it with less advanced tech. It is a game, one day your on top, the next your not. Advanced Tech doesn't mean anything if it is no good.

    I gotz class cya at 9pm :)
  • a2jfreaka2jfreak Houston, TX Member
    edited September 2003
    Is that 9pm eastern or 9pm central?
    You know, eastern is less efficient and therefore should be less popular than central.
  • gtghmgtghm New
    edited September 2003
    But popularity is where it is all at.

    Here's what you're missing in the scheme of things...
    If Rambus had been more open and free with its patents so that it was cheap to manufacture and widely available to both memory manufactures, MOB manufactures and consumers we would all be using Rambus today instead of DDR...

    When it comes to popularity that doesn’t mean it’s the best... in fact it usually means that it’s the most reasonably priced product to the consumer. The manufactures all want you to believe that you're buying the best cause it the most popular but that is just marketing...

    An example is if you're familiar with music then you must know the name Denon, well I know that there are way more pioneers and JVC's out there in home entertainment systems than Denon... But does that mean that they are better then Denon...?
    I think not... Denon is one of the absolute best receivers ever made.
    I could go on and on... Popularity doesn’t mean squat when it comes to determining which is actually better.
    If you make your determinations on weather or not a product is good by popularity then you are clearly a victim if advertising... :grin
    Thinking about it the AMD vs. Intel example you used is actually a good example for my point, as you and most AMD users believe, AMD is actually the more superior product right? But Intel continually out sells AMD by a wide margin right... So does that mean that Intel is better? If I understand your logic on Rambus vs. DDR then the Intel CPU would have to be clearly the best CPU ever made....

    cya
  • gtghmgtghm New
    edited September 2003
    a2jfreak said
    Is that 9pm eastern or 9pm central?
    You know, eastern is less efficient and therefore should be less popular than central.


    OMG that is too funny... lol ;D;D;D
  • GobblesGobbles Ventura California
    edited September 2003
    well just go by name recognition...

    Everyone knows the DDR moniker now where as mram is an unknown name.. However I think I will take the wait and see position as ddr2 will be out first but if mram is priced right I think it could be adopted industry wide, but the industry is not to keen on multiple memory technologies for PC's

    G
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