Hard drive on secondary IDE?

Tim

I've got an Abit NF-7 Version 2.0 motherboard in my computer. The primary IDE channel has 2 hard drives on it. The secondary IDE channel runs the CD-RW / DVD combo drive. So I have one spot open on the secondary.

I want to add a third hard drive, at least until I get all my important stuff off of the smallest hard drive in the computer now. The smallest one may or may not stay for backing up data.

I remember reading somewhere a year or 2 ago that hard drives won't run as well when matched up with CD drives on the secondary IDE. Is this true, and if so, can anything be done about it? How much performance loss could there be?

roland_dmp

As far as I know you won't suffer a performance loss as long as you have the HDD set up to be the Master drive on the secondary IDE and put it at the END of the IDE cable. This will give the HDD first priority over the CD-RW/DVD. As long as you're not writing from that HDD directly to the CD-RW you shouldn't notice a performance loss. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

ryko

roland_dmp, your reasoning seems logical, but i do believe you are incorrect. IDE will drop down and run both devices at the slowest speed regardless of master/slave config.

i guess if it's only a temp thing to backup some data then no big deal. definitely not a permanent solution though.

also, i always run optical drives off of primary IDE and hdds off of secondary IDE. doesn't really matter i guess, but it seems weird for me to hear that your optical drives are on secondary IDE channel. to each his own i guess!

roland_dmp

gah, I'm so confused now ryko :confused2 I've been touching up on all this stuff getting ready to take the A+ exam (no jokes, I'm just getting into the field) and I didn't read about that anywhere. I did read that it depends on whether you have a 40-wire cable or an 80-wire cable on what you set as master or slave. 40-wire being used for secondary (normally optical devices) and being backwards, meaning you still put the master drive on the END of the cable, but set it to Slave instead of master. And the drive on the middle connector should be set to master. 80-wire being used for primary devices (preferably HDD) with the Master on the END of the cable being set to Master, and the Slave on the middle connector set to slave.

I got this information here - if it's wrong please let me know so I can study somewhere else

Gobbles

1. Hard drives are generally run on the primary IDE bus
2. Yes you will see a performance drop with the drive when paired with an optical this does not change if its primary or secondary

Here is a quick lesson on the subject....

ATA-1 (IDE), [Obsolete] 8.3MBytes/sec, 8 or 16 bit data width, 
40 pin data ribbon cable/connector. With a maximum of 2 devices on the bus.
Using PIO Modes 0, 1 or 2. Performed no bus error correction. 
The ATA-1 specification was released in 1994, and was withdrawn in 1999.

ATA-2 (EIDE, or Fast ATA), [Obsolete] 16.6MBytes/sec, 8 or 16 bit data width, 
40 pin data ribbon cable/connector. With a maximum of 4 devices on the bus.
Using PIO Modes 0, 1, 2, 3, or 4. The ATA-2 specification was released in
1995 and was withdrawn in 2001.

ATA-3, 16MBytes/sec, 16 bit data width, 40 pin data ribbon cable/connector.
Using PIO Modes 0, 1, 2, 3, or 4 and Multiword DMA modes 1 and 2. 
Runs with 120nS Strobes (rising edge to rising edge). Includes CRC.
ATAPI (ATA Packet Interface)is the CD-ROM side of the interface. 
It uses the same connector as ATA, and adds 1 for analog and 1 for digital audio. 
The ATA-3 specification was released in 1997 and was withdrawn in 2002. 

ATA-4 Ultra-ATA/33, 33MBytes/sec, 16 bit data width, 40 pin data ribbon cable/connector. 
Using PIO Modes 0, 1, 2, 3, or 4 and Multiword DMA modes 1 and 2 and 
Ultra DMA modes 0, 1, and 2. Runs with 120nS Strobes (rising edge to rising edge), 
but used both edges of the Strobe producing an effective 60nS Strobe rate.
33MBps Transfer speed = [(1/120nS) x 2 bytes x 2]. Where 120nS cycle time is 4 clock periods at 30nS each. 
Added CRC checking. The ATA-4 standard was released in 1998.

ATA-5 Ultra-ATA/66, 66MBytes/sec, 16 bit data width 40 pin data connector/80 pin cable, 
with the additional 40 new pins being Ground. The new cable allows ATA/66 to run at a faster rate then ATA/33. 
Using PIO Modes 0, 1, 2, 3, or 4 and Multiword DMA modes 1 and 2 and 
Ultra DMA modes 0, 1, 2, 3 and 4. Runs with 60nS Strobes (rising edge to rising edge), 
but uses both edges of the Strobe producing an effective 30nS Strobe rate.
66MBps Transfer speed = [(1/60nS) x 2 bytes x 2]. Where 60nS cycle time is 2 clock periods at 30nS each. 
The ATA-5 standard was released in 2000.

ATA-6 Ultra-ATA/100, 100MBytes/sec,16 bit data width 
40 pin data connector/80 pin cable, with the additional 40 new pins being Ground. 
Using PIO Modes 0, 1, 2, 3, or 4 and Multiword DMA modes 1 and 2 and Ultra DMA modes 0, 1, 2, 3, 4 and 5. 
100MBps Transfer speed = [(1/40nS) x 2 bytes x 2]. Where 40nS cycle time is 2 clock periods at 20nS each. 
The ATA-6 standard was released in 2002.

ATA-7 Ultra-ATA/133, 133MBytes/sec,16 bit data width 40 pin data connector/80 pin cable, 
with the additional 40 new pins being Ground. Using PIO Modes 0, 1, 2, 3, or 4 and Multiword DMA modes 0, 1 and 2 and 
Ultra DMA modes 0, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 and 6. 133MBps Transfer speed = [(1/30nS) x 2 bytes x 2]. 
Where 30nS cycle time is 2 clock periods at 15nS each. The ATA-7 standard was released in 2005. 
With the introduction of Serial ATA, this is the last expected update of the IDE [PATA] bus. 
SATA: is faster, and requires a smaller cable, which means better air flow in the Chassis.



Serial ATA: (Ver 1.0) High Speed Serialized AT Attachment
Serial version of the IDE [ATA] spec. 
Uses a 4 conductor cable with two differential pairs [Tx/Rx], plus an additional three grounds pins and a separate power pin. 
Data runs at 150MBps [1.5GHz] using 8B/10B encoding and 250mV signal swings. 
Serial ATA is not compatible with the IDE [Parallel ATA] because the connectors are different, 
the voltage levels are different, and data format is different [SATA sends a bit at a time while PATA sends 16 bits at once]. 
SATA will not interface with the IDE bus. No cable can be made to connect SATA with IDE. 
However a converter may be purchased which translates SATA to PATA. One module appears as a 2" x 2" board, for $50 
and converts IDE controllers 66/100/133/150 MB/s to Serial ATA 150.

ATA-# interface for disk drives; defines the Physical layer, Electrical layer and Signaling protocol. 
The speed of data transfer depends on the Transfer mode used. There are 3 main Transfer modes: 
PIO, Multiword DMA, and Ultra DMA. All transfer rates listed above are best case [Mulit-word/DMA transfers].

PIO Modes: 0 [3.3MB/s], 1 [5.2MB/s], 2 [8.3MB/s], 3 [11.1MB/s], 4 [16.7MB/s] 
Multiword DMA Modes: 0 [4.2MB/s], 1 [13.3MB/s], 2 [16.7MB/s]
Ultra DMA Modes: 0 [16.7MB/s], 1 [25.0MB/s], 2 [33.3MB/s], 3 [44.4MB/s], 4 [66.7MB/s], 5 [100.0MB/s]

The hard drive, computer, and software determine the mode used: Programmed Input/Output (PIO), Direct Memory Access (DMA). 
Addressing on the bus is defined by; CHS (Cylinder, Head, Sector)

Power (+5 / +12volts) is supplied over a four pin connector (unless the 50-pin connector is used). 
There are a number of power (down) modes defined: Active, Idle, Standby, and Sleep.
Active: normal drive operation.
Idle: the electronics power down but still receives commands.
Standby: the drive spins down and the electronics power down.
Sleep: every thing is powered down, the electronics will not respond except for a power reset.

The early specifications defined the data cable as a normal 40 pin ribbon cable with a 40 pin IDC connector. 
The latest standard(s) define the same 40 pin connector, but have increased the ribbon to 80 pins - the additional 40 pins being dedicated to ground pins. 
Data transfers are made at either 8 or 16 bits.
The normal PC cables have three connectors, one for the mother board (at one end) and two for device attachment. 
One at the opposite end, the other about 6 inches away

roland_dmp

Thanks for the clarification Gobbles! So does this also mean that if I have 2 optical drives on my secondary controller that my newer DVD-RW would be slowed down by my older DVD player? My DVD-RW is running at DMA 4 and my DVD-ROM at DMA 2.

Straight_Man

Tim wrote:

I've got an Abit NF-7 Version 2.0 motherboard in my computer. The primary IDE channel has 2 hard drives on it. The secondary IDE channel runs the CD-RW / DVD combo drive. So I have one spot open on the secondary.

I want to add a third hard drive, at least until I get all my important stuff off of the smallest hard drive in the computer now. The smallest one may or may not stay for backing up data.

I remember reading somewhere a year or 2 ago that hard drives won't run as well when matched up with CD drives on the secondary IDE. Is this true, and if so, can anything be done about it? How much performance loss could there be?

The way the controller for IDE works for your board will determine if your HD runs at speed of DVD or not, and when it might do so. Some controllers lock the whole channel, a few do not. Those that lock the channel to slowest device will probably lock the DVD and HD to 66 MB/sec instead of 100MB/sec.

I would disconnect the DVD (with computer off, naturally)and do your big transfer of data, then use the HD on the primry channel with the other mid-sized HD. You will not hurt things, but a drive at 2/3 speed might not please you when you are moving lots of data.

Omega65

Note: your NF7-S v2 Has (should have) Two SATA/IDE adapters...... You can avoid the IDE controller completely

Tim

This NF7 is a plain NF7 Version 2.0, no -S option. It has IDE ports, but no SATA ports.

I don't use the CD-RW / DVD drive very often, I could just unplug it entirely and never notice a difference for 98% of the time I'm on the computer.

I'll probably hook up the new 40 GB drive on the secondary channel, transfer a bunch of stuff to it from the 20 GB drive, and leave the 80 GB drive alone.

The 20 GB drive then will be used for backup storage only. I'll seperate it from the computer and keep it elsewhere.