Low Level Format

EnverexEnverex Worcester, UK Icrontian
edited October 2004 in Science & Tech
I need a program that will allow me to initiate a true low level format on a USB drive.

All the ones for manufactueres will only detect internal drives, not ones housed in external enclosures.

On the same note, this machine is Dual Booting with Linux, so if there is an easy way to initiate a Low Level format from within Linux then I can do that (I can easily talk to the device by using /dev/sda).

The drive housed in the enclosure is a VERY old Hitatchi 540MB IDE drive.

Thanks,
NS

Comments

  • TexTex Dallas/Ft. Worth
    edited October 2003
    I have never heard of anything that does a true low level format to USB based drives. Why not just pull it out and stick it in a regular box for the format.

    Are you wanting a true low level that locks out the bad sectors and recertifies the disk etc... or just wanting it erased basicaly?

    Tex
  • EnverexEnverex Worcester, UK Icrontian
    edited October 2003
    Tex said
    I have never heard of anything that does a true low level format to USB based drives. Why not just pull it out and stick it in a regular box for the format.

    Are you wanting a true low level that locks out the bad sectors and recertifies the disk etc... or just wanting it erased basicaly?

    Tex

    Because it's a 2.5" drive, and it doesn't fit in my laptop.

    And I am "wanting a true low level that locks out the bad sectors and recertifies the disk etc"

    NS
  • TexTex Dallas/Ft. Worth
    edited October 2003
    They have those little converters that allow you to plug them into to normal IDE connections. Wish we were closer. I would do it for ya.

    Your best bet would be emailing tech support at a company like Ontrak that used to provide the low-level utilities for several of the major drive companines and now sells their own suite of drive utilities perhaps. Your prob really is you have to run drivers to see the USB drives usually and to low level they want direct access to the disk with no softare between the low-level utitlity and the disk surface basicaly. The driver would keep them from doing what has to be done is what I am trying to say. Have you checked guys like IOmega or guys like them that sell usb based drives and are big enough to maybe of written their own special software that might address your needs?

    Tex
  • EnverexEnverex Worcester, UK Icrontian
    edited October 2003
    I dont want a converter because I may need to do this to drives in the future, from my laptop. I would have thought I would have been easy enough to do a low level format through the USB converter, we just need something that will recoginise USB drives, which, none of the manufacturer specific programs do.

    It seems like it may be better to go the Linux root as that can detect the drives easily and has the freedom of DOS at the same time (in relation to being able to do things without the complaint of it being in use or having to restart).

    Theoretically, As Linux works with the /dev/ system, I dont need a special utility, just one that will do a low level format.

    NS
  • TexTex Dallas/Ft. Worth
    edited October 2003
    I have never heard of any linux system providing utilities to do a true low-level is the problem. They format a filesystem but its not a true low-level. Or at least non of the unix/linux variants I have messed with anyway. A true ide low-level is like the scsi low-level that you do from an adpater and not the OS. If your running a driver its not a true low-level. Or I have never seen or heard of one that did a true low-level running drivers. Look at it that way. A true low-level locks out the bad sectors in the drives internal bad sector table thing. And thats your challenge as every usb connected drive I have seen uses drivers of some sort.

    Tex
  • TheLostSwedeTheLostSwede Trondheim, Norway Icrontian
    edited October 2003
    Correct me if i am wrong but those newer usb drives are actually bootable and wont need any drivers at all. Do you have one of those NS?
  • TexTex Dallas/Ft. Worth
    edited October 2003
    Bootable is more a matter of the bios on teh computer then teh drive/enclosure
  • TheLostSwedeTheLostSwede Trondheim, Norway Icrontian
    edited October 2003
    Also, the apps you can get from the harddrive manufacturers website includes a zero write/low level format proggy. Are you saying those aren´t true low level format proggys? I know ibm used to have a proggy called ZAP which where the mother of all low level proggys.
  • EnverexEnverex Worcester, UK Icrontian
    edited October 2003
    Yeah, the drive can boot, but it depends on the BIOS of the machine.

    The utilities CAN talk directly to the drive, even if a driver is loaded. This can be shown by using the hdparm utility in Linux and setting drive peramters such as speed, accoustic management and other things that you normally need the manufacturers software for.

    It basically just acts as a passthrough.

    Also low level formats are just initiated by sending a command to the drive, which also wouldn't be affected by these type of drivers.

    NS
  • TexTex Dallas/Ft. Worth
    edited October 2003
    Thats why I asked WHY he was low level formating. Some do it to erase the drive. By writing zeros to the drive you erase it but thats not a low level format. A true low level format locks out the bad sectors in the disk surface so they are not seen by the OS format. That tales a true low level utility. I use Maxtors now for all my drives btw...

    Thats how you get a defect free drive when you get a modern ide drive. With older esdi or scsi you you had a defect list from the manufacturer you entered when you low leveled it before the OS formated it. This locked out the bad sectors. Over time most disks (especially if they are bumped while running etc...) have more bad sectors creap in. NTFS has the ability to lock out more sectors and move the contents to another area of the disk even. thus "recovering the bad sector" But no longer is the data continguos in some cases either as it "moves" the bad sector to a new place on the disk. By doing a true low-level you lock out all the bad sectors before the OS formats and see's them.

    My fancy scsi raid controllers have advanced abilitys to detect and move bad sectors on the fly even. But its better to lock them out at the disks bad track table then letting teh OS do it if you have many bad sectors or have severely damaged areas. I ahve areas of my raided maxtors that were so bad the OS would hang on them making nasty noises even trying to format them. You could partition around them sort of to avoid them but a truw low-level locks them out so the OS never see's them again.

    See?

    Tex
  • TexTex Dallas/Ft. Worth
    edited October 2003
    (grin)
  • EnverexEnverex Worcester, UK Icrontian
    edited October 2003
    er.......... ok................ don't see how that helps though......

    NS
  • TexTex Dallas/Ft. Worth
    edited October 2003
    You can't low level with drivers on ide. You can write zeros like he said! Thats not a low level and does not lock out the bad sectors. No software I have seen allows it. There may be something somewhere but I have done this a long time and have a pretty cool collections of disk utilitys. And have never seen anything that does a TRUE low level with drivers. Thats why you can't from windows for example. The drivers keep you from accessing the drive like you have to be able to, to low-level it. If this was so easy why don't you think everybody would have easy Windows tools to allow users to low level their drives NS? You think if its just issuing a single command and zap it low levels, locks the bad sectors and recertifys the drive?

    Right......................

    Tex
  • EnverexEnverex Worcester, UK Icrontian
    edited October 2003
    Tex said
    If this was so easy why don't you think everybody would have easy Windows tools to allow users to low level their drives NS?

    The same reason BIOS flashing USED to have to be done from DOS (which can now be done because Windows has changed the way it handles hardware) or the same reason FDisk has to be done in DOS. It's not the drivers, it's just how WINDOWS handles the hardware itself, not allowing certain access, or 'real-mode' access to the drives either.

    Low Level Format DOES issue a single command to the drive, in which the drive handles everything itself untill it has finished, which is why Low Level Formats now cannot be done on drives because the drives are issued the command and due to new drives not needing to low level format they just return the Ok, or in some cases as has been stated, they wait (pretending to do something) then return the all clear. The true low level format is built into the Firmware, which is another reason why you specifically need your manufactuers own software to perform a low level format.

    NS
  • LytithwynLytithwyn Somewhere in a bash terminal...
    edited October 2004
    Hi, Enverex. I was looking for an answer to the same problem, when I happened upon this forum.

    I keep getting write errors whenever I try to save something on my PNY Attachè USB drive. My friends are having the same problem, and the tech guys at PNY don't seem to know what they are doing. I just can't find a low level format utility that will work on our drives. I have tried Active@'s killdisk, but it only works on IDE/ATA/SCSI stuff.
  • JimboraeJimborae Newbury, Berks, UK New
    edited October 2004
    Now i dont no much about this sort of thing but I've used a program called D-Ban that's a linux programme to erase all the data on a hard drive. I dont know whether it detects usb devices but it has range of erasing tools from quick low level format to Dept. of Defense level erasing tools. You might try that & its very easy to use, just burn to disc & set your pC to boot from cd & it does all the rest.
  • LytithwynLytithwyn Somewhere in a bash terminal...
    edited October 2004
    I have isolated my problem, I think, to a bad sector near the 100 MB mark. All I have to do is format it and make sure I don't save anything past there, but that's annoying.

    I looked at the D-Ban page on sourceforge, but it looks like it only works on hard drive type stuff too. I don't have time to try it...it's off to work for me. I am at school, and I don't have a net connection at home.

    I found a lot of utilities by searching google, but they are all made for a specific vendor.
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