Peltier/TEC Basics

tmh88

Hey guys ive been trying to find some info about peltier cooling but i guess im just not looking in the right places. Does anyone have some links to websites that have info about them (not the definition from wikipedia), but articles, tutorials, actual peltier use, ect....even pictures would be nice.

Also how much would it cost to get a peltier and set it up for my cpu? (amd 64 3200+). I dont know too much about them other than they are thermoelectric cooling, so i'd appreciate some info about their usage and stuff. thanks

lemonlime

tmh88 wrote:

Hey guys ive been trying to find some info about peltier cooling but i guess im just not looking in the right places. Does anyone have some links to websites that have info about them (not the definition from wikipedia), but articles, tutorials, actual peltier use, ect....even pictures would be nice.

Also how much would it cost to get a peltier and set it up for my cpu? (amd 64 3200+). I dont know too much about them other than they are thermoelectric cooling, so i'd appreciate some info about their usage and stuff. thanks

Hey tmh, XtremeSystems has a sticky guide up on peltiers here: http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=38367. They seem to be a good resource on the subject, take a look at the parent forum for tons of info.

Personally, I would not recommend a peltier for CPU cooling.. they are terribly inefficient (electrically and thermally). For anything larger than an 80W TEC (usually 170+ watt TECs are needed to keep modern CPUs below ambient), you'll need a dedicated PSU for the element, not to mention a watercooling system to cool down the 'hot side'. Muddocktor has quite a bit of experience with Pelts, so I'm sure he'll be chiming in soon to share his experiences

As far as cost is concerned, It could be upwards of $400-500 or more. If you do not currently have a watercooling setup, it will be costly. For a basic aircooled TEC, you'd be looking at more in the 200-300 range. It makes more sense to find a used Prometia or Vapochill. You'll get even better temps, and you'll make up for the added cost in your electricity bill

muddocktor

Yeah, lemonlime has pretty much hit the nail on the head about TEC cooling. It is fun to play with and you can get some good results, but it won't be cheap, even buying used components. I have a 172 watt TEC, a 24v, 300 watt psu with case and waterblock with cold plate for sale right now for $100, but that's just the start of the expenses. My waterblock was originally made for socket A, but I also have a converter bracket for mounting on socket 478 and it could probably be modded for Socket 754/939 use too. But then you have to build up the rest of your watercooling system and it has to handle not only the processor's heat, but also the heat from your TEC. So you would need a large radiator, one of those that uses 2 or 3 120mm fans on it, plus a good pump and tubing. So you are looking at another $150-200 for the rest of the system, minimum. Then after you have all this rigged up, you will have to deal with the heat this setup is going to dump into your room, which is the biggest sticking point for me. You will be dumping somewhere's around 300 watts of heat into the room, which can quickly overpower your AC.

There are other things you have to worry about too, but you would have to watch out for these with phase change also. You have to insulate around and behind the cpu socket to keep condensation from forming and also you will need to use some dielectric grease in the zif socket's pinholes too, so condensation isn't a factor. Neoprene rubber is generally used to insulate around the cpu socket and behind the socket on the mobo.

But if you want to mess with pelts, you can have a blast. When I was running mine, I had a P3 1.26S proc at over 1700 MHz with 1.85v vcore and my folding temps were around -5° C and idle temps around -25 to -30° C while using a 120 watt peltier element. The 172 watt element would be enough to cool a single core A64 or Opty real well.

tmh88

so would it just be better to watercool my cpu then?

GHoosdum

"Better" is relative. It really depends on what you're looking for. If you're looking to save money, aircooling is the cheapest. If you're looking to do something neat that doesn't cost a whole arm and a leg, then go watercooling. If you've got the bucks, and you want to make things really cold in there, then do the pelt. It's also got the most "wow" factor - it won't help you pick up chicks, but it does impress folks at the LAN party.

muddocktor

Also, if you do decide to go with a peltier setup, you will be watercooling anyways. I just don't think you can aircool a high power peltier with an air cooled soution without having to resort to some drastically noisy high cfm fans on the hot side. Plus, the lower the temp you can keep the hot side of the element, the lower the temp the cold side will get to. Most peltier elements that are useful in overclocking today's processors have a delta T of around 70° C (if I remember right, it's been a while since I checked that). So if you can keep the high side at around 30° C, theoretically you could get the cold side to -40° C. Of course in actuality you will never get that cold.

tmh88

I have an idea in mind about a watercooling system that uses peltiers to help further cool the water (so the peltier wont be directly on the cpu, rather cools the water so that i).

I dont know a whole lot about peltiers, but I'd really like to see some pictures of installing peltiers, just to get a feel for how i can get my idea to work. Even pictures of peltiers just installed would be nice too.


This is just a thought but I dont know if it will work....Ok Im in an engineering class in school and we use alot of machinery for metal working and I was thinking about making a reservoir for a watercooling system. The reservoir would be like a rectangle approx the size of a hard drive, maybe a little bit higher. Anyway on hte top there would be a square indentation for a peltier to sit in, and would have either screws or a bracket so that a heatsink can be mounted on it. That way it would pre-cool the water before it goes to the CPU and could possibly eliminate the need for a radiator. I dont know how cold peltiers can get, or how cold it can get the water(might even freeze it ), but if it turns out how i'm thinking it could be very efficient. I'll make a few drawings of the reservoir and let me know what you guys think.

lemonlime

What you are describing tmh is a peltier based water chiller.. The idea is great, but the biggest challenge is keeping the hot side of the peltier element cool. Procooling did a great review of the Swiftech chiller here: http://www.procooling.com/index.php?func=articles&disp=84&pg=1

lots of great info there that should give you an idea of what is involved.

There would be no radiator required for the main loop, but one would certainly be required (a massive 2x120 at the least) to keep the hot-side cool.

tmh88

I have an amazing idea, but it will require alot of money and parts.....Brb I'll make a diagram of it on paint. wow this is gonna be sweet, wait til you guys see this.

tmh88

Ok heres the diagram. I know there are flaws in it, but this is just a general idea. Dont take this as a final draft because its far from that.

Basically i use the peltiers cold side to cool down its hot side. The reservoir is divided in half. One half is used to cool the peltier, and the other half is used for the cpu. Each set has its own pump and water lines. The water from both sets never mix. Also since the custom water block for the peltier may be large depending on the actual size of the peltier, an 80mm heatsink/fan could be mounted on top to cool that down even more.

I know this will cost alot, and I probably wont be doing this. I just had this in mind and i thought it was cool.