Watercooling My Athlon 64

mmonnin

So I want to actually get my A64 WCed. I just made my last payment to DeVry (still have loans though) and want to get this done.

So I am wondering what are the best WCing products on the market right now. This thread seems to have some of the best stuff out there right now I think.

http://www.ocforums.com/showthread.php?t=369416

I would like to use all 1/2" ID products as more flow is usually better most of the time.

I have a D4/MCP650 but havent used it yet. I am looking at the D5/MCP655. I like the setting options as well as the improvements.

I am not quite sure about the CPU block though. I think I have the MCW6000 around here somewhere but I wasnt able to find it in the apt yet. Swiftec seems to have some new products out since the MCW6000 was top of the line such as the the Storm and Apogee. On the list there is also the AquaXtreme MP-05 SP that can have either 3/8" and 1/2" barbs.

I have several Rads that I can use. 1 2x120mm rad and several 120mm rads. They are not 1/2" ID though.

2 of these:
http://www.ntcw.com/Merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=NTCW&Product_Code=HF-STMCR120FRK&Category_Code=STH2ORED

1 of these:
http://www.ntcw.com/Merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=NTCW&Product_Code=HF-STRAD6765&Category_Code=STH2ORED

The Thermochill PA160 seems to be the best Rad accoring to the above site that does not require 3x120mm fans. That might be interesting.

I also have a Vid block that I plan on putting into the loop but I dont have an excellent video card so about anything will do for that atm.

Questions:

1. Are there Rads on the market that take in 1/2" ID tubing or is an adapter of some sort needed to use any of them. Nothing I see from swiftec at least can handle 1/2" ID tubing from what it looks like. I would rather not have that resistance entering the Rad.

2. What is better: The 1x120mm Rad or the 2x120mm Rad. The double one is cheaper than the single fan Rad. It makes sense that the double would be better with more air flowing across it but is the single fan Rad better at removing heat?

3. Is a D5 enough to push thru a CPU Block, Vid Block, a Rad, and possibly a Rez(not sure I am going to use it in this setup)? I also have an MCP350 in another computer with WCing that I put together. On the Ocforum post I linked above it said that the 350 is better for multiple blocks and the 655/650 is better for single block loops. I can always put the D4 in the other 1 block setup I have and use the DDC/350 in my main system. I am wondering about the head drop after several blocks worth of resistance, esp if I use a 2x120mm Rad and high resistance blocks.

4. How much does it hurt to use 3/8" -> 1/2" (Block -> Tubing) adapters? I guess the Storm and Apogee can come with fittings for both sizes of barbs but what about for the Rads and the Vid block that I have. I know that head pressure drops a lot with resistance with some pumps and was wondering how much reduction in flow this might cause.

Sound is not necessarily an issue but the quieter the better. I used to run my XP-M with a TT SmartFan2 at full blast so I dont think any of this will be louder than that.

mmonnin

Anyone with some ideas?

GHoosdum

Well Marc, I'm not too knowledgeable about watercooling, but in general, I know that stepping down from 1/2" to 3/8" in just one place is going to restrict your flow through the whole system.

Other than that, all I can say is that I encourage you to post here with your progress!

shwaip

mmonnin wrote:

I also have a Vid block that I plan on putting into the loop but I dont have an excellent video card so about anything will do for that atm.

Questions:

1. Are there Rads on the market that take in 1/2" ID tubing or is an adapter of some sort needed to use any of them. Nothing I see from swiftec at least can handle 1/2" ID tubing from what it looks like. I would rather not have that resistance entering the Rad.

Yup.
http://www.dtekcustoms.com/index.asp has one
http://www.dangerdenstore.com/home.php?cat=5 has a couple choices

2. What is better: The 1x120mm Rad or the 2x120mm Rad. The double one is cheaper than the single fan Rad. It makes sense that the double would be better with more air flowing across it but is the single fan Rad better at removing heat?

A single heatercore (the rads at d-tek or dangerden) would suffice - unless you have a vid card that generates some monstrous amount of heat

4. How much does it hurt to use 3/8" -> 1/2" (Block -> Tubing) adapters? I guess the Storm and Apogee can come with fittings for both sizes of barbs but what about for the Rads and the Vid block that I have. I know that head pressure drops a lot with resistance with some pumps and was wondering how much reduction in flow this might cause.

Which vid block do you have? I would recommend making the entire loop 1/2" ID, but I can't tell you how much of an effect the adaptors would have. I wouldn't use them on the radiator, but they may not have much of an effect on the vid block.

TheSmJ

Didn't you sell your WC stuff last year?

Anyways I've heard great things about the PA160 (obviously). As long as you have a case that can fit it, it's supposedly the best out there.

The TDX series of blocks from DD are right on par with the latest Swiftech offering. All the reviews out there show they perform exactly the same, so whichever one you can get cheapest is what I would go for.

The Maze4 from DD is a great GPU block (and some use it for socket A/370 CPUs).

csimon

Marc you can get all of the items with 1/2" inlets.
I recommend a single pa160 if you can fit it ...it uses a 120mm w/ shroud and plenty of surface area. Cathar himself told me that it performs on par w/ the 120.2.
The D5 is an excellent selection.
The apogee is less restrictive and performs as well as the storm as long as you keep the IHS (recommended). I know that's debatable but nothing has ever been concluded at the procooling forums except ...storm is teh roxors ...and crap like that.
Also get the vid block that goes with it I believe it comes with the copper sinks.

Basically w/ this rig you will have a great performer w/ little resistance at all ...that's the beauty of the newer radiators. The PA160 is still the flagship.

Black Ice just came out with single pass low-restriction rads but I still put my faith in the 160.

TheSmJ

I should also point out that with a little elbow grease you can fit the PA160 into the Antec/cheiftec SOHO cases really well. I'll post some pics of my mod later.

mmonnin

Well I'll be damned, the blocks I have are 1/2". For some reason I didnt think they were.

shwaip wrote:

Which vid block do you have? I would recommend making the entire loop 1/2" ID, but I can't tell you how much of an effect the adaptors would have. I wouldn't use them on the radiator, but they may not have much of an effect on the vid block.

I have some Swiftech block but I might as well get a new one. And I just have an ATI X700 Pro so nothing that turns out too much heat atm.

TheSmJ wrote:

Didn't you sell your WC stuff last year?

I was trying to sell a WCed system I had but I still have it.

Yeah I have read some good stuff about the PA160. I dont know exactly where I would put it though. I have an Antec/Chenming/Chieftec case and a Lian Li PC65 and some others. I dont know how I would be able to fit it inside of either of those or even attach it outside of the case if I had to. Any suggestions on where I could attach a monster such as a PA160?

Hmm the Lian Li's have always looked awesome to me. So Sexy! This could be the time to spring for a Lian Li V COOL PC-V1000APLUS. It has a 120mm fan opeing in the back that I could attach the PA160 too and there wouldnt be much hot air in that area still to keep the water temps up. Does that case come with a window by chance? If not I guess I would just have to do another mod. It would be a shame to hide the WCing setup. Cept the window would face my desk instread of away from it.

Dont worry, the IHS isnt going anywhere!! I dont have that much dough to throw around if I goof up.

I am going to have to read some of the procooling forums to see what some of the more experience people think about some of these products.

Hmm there is a DDC+ out right now. And there is a mod that you can do to move the inlet from the side to the top that increases flow. The + versions seens to have a nice amount of additional flow compared to the original too.
http://coolercasesuk.co.uk/showthread.php?t=15

csimon

The "value" lian li rigs can be bought with windows.
I liked the v2000 because I knew I could mount the pa in front without any trouble and have all of my wc contained w/in the system. I liked it best because of the bottom compartment being shielded (more or less) from the top ...with good ventilation so as not to build up heat.

It's a tough call for any rad fitting really. And it's tougher when you have to decide to bore holes into a new case ...especially one as expensive as lian li. This is why I spent the extra money on the v2000 ...it's primarily (for me) a watercooling rig.

muddocktor

I tell you Marc, on my watercooling rig I built the rad inside of it but if I decide to do another one, I'm seriously thinking of buying some kind of fairly cheap, good looking mATX case to mount the pump and a nice sized radiator in it instead of doing some serious hacking on the computer case. Eheim makes some really nice ball valve quick disconnects in basically any size you want for your tubing, to make it fairly portable and then you have no restrictions on what radiator or where to mount it. They aren't real cheap, but they are dead reliable; I've been using them on 2 aquariums for around 8-10 years with no problems. Here's a link to the version that fits 3/8" ID (1/2" OD) tubing: Dbl. Isolating Valve for 494 Tubing (Eheim).

As far as tubing size goes, I really don't see the need to go larger than regular 1/2" OD tubing, as long as your pump will give you decent hydrostatic head. You really don't want to use a cheapo pump that has poor hydrostatic head in a WC setup. I'm preferential to Eheim equipment myself, but all they make are 120v pumps. They are built rock solid and are arguably the most dependable pumps on the market for their price range. As far as the pumps you are considering, I have no clue as to their reliability though.

mmonnin

Well the reason why I looked at that Lian Li was because I could just attach the Rad to the ouside and the only modding I would have to do is 2 small holes for the tubing to come back into the case. It has a 120mm fan at the rear of the case and I could just put the fan on the inside and use the same fan holes already in the case to attach the shroud/rad.

Chris: Where exactly in that case did you mout your rad? Are you using a shroud? I am not sure where you put it unless you took up and entire HDD compartment. OMG i just noticed the price on that one though. Its kinda hefty, esp if I knew I could fit into a current case that I have.

I will take another look at some of the eheim pumps. Many people I see have an Eheim pump in their WC system.

muddocktor

Marc, I'm using an Eheim 1250, which has decent but not real high head pressure. I'm not sure how well it would work with a Storm waterblock, but it works just fine with a DD RBX, which is a mildly restrictive jet impingement waterblock. It's a little large, but still managable in a case and the intake is sized for 5/8" OD tubing and 1/2" outflow, but you can either reduce the intake to 1/2" or if you are using Tygon or silicone tubing, stretch the tubing to fit over it.

TheSmJ

I had to remove the bottom 3.5" drive cage to fit the PA160, and bought a 5.25" to 3.5" boot for the floppy drive as I didn't want to lose the fan in front of the two HDDs.

You can get an actual-size stencil from DD's website to get a better idea of how you want to shoehorn the thing into your case. I found it invaluable.

TheSmJ

Here's some photos of my mod which better describe what I was trying to say above:









Note how I used a peice of sheet metal to remodel the case so I had room to bolt on the fan to the front. You can also see how deep the radiator goes into the case with the fan and shrowd attached.

mmonnin

Thanks for the pics, Dave. That gives me a lot better idea of the dimentions of this thing.

Hmm I forgot about the extra height due to the in/out ports on the Rad. That makes it a little bit taller.

I have 3 HDDs right now and I want to add a Raptor as well, hopefully another down the road so I dont think that setup is going to work for me. I cant lose that bottom HDD cage.

Attaching from the bottom of the case wont work either as I will run into the video card as well as I have about 3 PCI slots to work with even though they are all empty.

So its either get a new case or attach on the outside as I see it.

mmonnin

I found a picture where a guy put the PA160 in the PC-V2000 Plus case in the front compartment. He took out the first verticle HDD attachment so that the PC160 could fit into the case. The second HDD compartment holds 6 HDDs so I will still be fine since I will have 4 and possibly 5 if I RAID the Raptors.

I also found something very interesting reguarding pumps and when is too much to the point where going bigger wont help but rather hurt temps with the added heat dump from the pump.

http://forums.procooling.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=10825

This thread also had some nice information on the best pumps including Iwaki. Iwaki are out of the price range though as far as I am concerned at $200-300 a pump.

It sounds like turning down the D5 to P2-4 could actually perform just as well as have it at P5. After awhile the block reaches the point of diminishing returns and this is no need to have more flow and the added heat from a faster setting.

Oh and also, I found that case on another website for $234 shipped instead of $280 +S&H on newegg. That is definitely feasible for me instead of $300 for a case.

csimon

Marc ...if you get the case and find it too cramped with the drives down below you can always add in hdd drive bays in the 5.25 compartments. The drive bay I picked up occupies 3 5.25 compartments and has a 120mm fan for cooling. Fits right in ...maybe a little snug but here's pics. As you can tell I have room for another one above since I only use once cd/dvd.

Notice the drive bay covers also for extra air.
Temps at 2650 overclock 1.5v overclock are maxed at 43 cpu and 27 sys load. This will probably begin to get slightly warmer with the summer season I assume.

I can take some pics of everything assembled if you like.

mmonnin

Yeah like that third pic. There is only 1 vertical piece in the bottom compartment. Normally I think there are 3 vertical pieces, IE spots for to columns of HDDs. I was just thinking about taking out the leftmost support and leaving 1 compartment for HDDs. I think that would give me enough room to fit the PA160 between the front grill and that second HDD compartment.

OMG I dont know how I could run out of room in that monster of a case! Its HUGE!! Its even bigger than my Cheiftech and that is plenty big for about anthing I could dream/afford of.:)

csimon

Yeah it is huge. When I bought it I had the intention of not having to buy another case for a long long time. I think the PA160 begs for this case and it's so easy to clean the filter. 2 thumbscrews and pull back about 2-3 inches and it's right there. Not very difficult to put it back either.

If you place 2 80mm's at the rear you should have decent airflow to take out most of the warm air. I haven't done that yet but 2 low cfm fans would do it easy.