What is "burning in"

sociable-nomadsociable-nomad New Zealand - The land of the long white cloud
edited July 2006 in Hardware
Ive notived everyone talkin about 'burn in software' and burning in various components... what is all this have to do with overclocking your machine?

Comments

  • Sledgehammer70Sledgehammer70 California Icrontian
    edited June 2006
    Burning in a computer is when you get a new PC or build a new PC and you run its components in. Such as run benchmarks that make use of all the hardware installed. The main goal is to see if anything fails. Hence what we call the burn in stage.

    F@H is a great program as it will run your CPU at 100% for as long as you want it to. 3DMark running in multiples of 15 is a good way also as it makes use of the CPU, Graphics cards and Ram... and it pushes your PSU.
  • EnverexEnverex Worcester, UK Icrontian
    edited June 2006
    Actually F@H is a bad program to use for burning in as you may end up turning in invalid work units which hurts stanford. The best program to use for burning in your processor always has been and always will be Prime95 (it sits in your tray and if it fails turns a different colour so you know it's failed without having to keep checking it too).
  • Sledgehammer70Sledgehammer70 California Icrontian
    edited June 2006
    Thats the stupidest thing I have ever heard! In regards to F@H.

    But Prime 95 is the best program for O.C. testing
  • edited June 2006
    Why is it stupid? It's perfectly true. If you're trying to test the stability of hardware don't use software doing fine scientific calculations to do so, that's the the essence of stupidity. Rather use software that's designed to push hardware and has no (ZERO) impact on anything if there's a failure. No bogus WU's going to Stanford, no screwed up data for them to sort through, nada.
  • sociable-nomadsociable-nomad New Zealand - The land of the long white cloud
    edited June 2006
    so why so some step down their voltages? is this just to see if they can run at the same speeds while running a cooler machine?
  • Sledgehammer70Sledgehammer70 California Icrontian
    edited June 2006
    I have never had bogus WU's go to Stanford, while burning in a new rig... I guess I am that good!
  • EnverexEnverex Worcester, UK Icrontian
    edited June 2006
    I have never had bogus WU's go to Stanford, while burning in a new rig... I guess I am that good!

    Correction, you don't THINK you've had any bogus WUs go to Sanford. There's no way you could possibly know if what your machine has processed and sent was perfectly correct.
  • edited June 2006
    Actually, most people doing burn ins will pump the Vcore by a bit to cause the CPU to generate more heat than normal. The jury is out on how effective this is in gaining more OC headroom but some folks feel it's good at getting the thermal paste to "set" better.

    Setting is dependent on the paste in question, pastes like AS5 (Arctic Silver 5) tend to increase in thermal conductivity with time. Others like Nanotherm Blue don't see nearly the benefit from setting in.

    As to lowering the Vcore, I have no idea what's that about unless these are guys doing no overclocking and running silent rigs. Running lower Vcore does indeed benefit you with lower core voltages but it can lead to stability issues.
  • Sledgehammer70Sledgehammer70 California Icrontian
    edited June 2006
    So in turn can't all my computers & your computers be sending in bogus WU's since day 1? I guess you would never know either right!So either way F@H makes a good burn in program...
  • edited June 2006
    I have never had bogus WU's go to Stanford, while burning in a new rig... I guess I am that good!

    The only way to know if you've sent fubared WUs to Stanford is by early termination. If you're sending WUs that are running the entire time you can still be sending garbled data, you just won't know it.
  • Sledgehammer70Sledgehammer70 California Icrontian
    edited June 2006
    To note I let them run all the way through 1 WU.... go or no go it makes no difference if it is on a computer than has never turned in a WU or one that has turned in 50 WU's. As I ahve had towers here fail on WU's and they have been running for months...
  • edited June 2006
    That's why you don't start folding until you've made 100% certain that your rig is stable at the speed that you're running it at. This is where using the "right tool for the job" comes in to play. Finding out that your PC is unstable by using F@H or any other DC client is doing a dis-service to the rest of the DC community.
  • Sledgehammer70Sledgehammer70 California Icrontian
    edited June 2006
    I'm not talking about using F@H on a OC'd Computer! I am talking stock specs! and if that is a crime I am the biggest dis-service guy oinline...
  • lemonlimelemonlime Canada Member
    edited June 2006
    Sorry I missed this thread earlier, but just thought I'd throw in my 2c.

    There are really two different definitions of 'burn-in' that I am aware of.

    1) The type being discussed in this thread - Running a CPU (or component) at 100% utilization for maximum thermal output. This is usually for testing purposes--how well is my cooling system working?--is my system stable? etc.

    2) There is also the type of burn-in that sociable.nomad mentioned earlier. This type of burn-in is like an excercise routine for your CPU. With a new CPU, you can 'train' it to run (stable) at a lower vcore value than previously possible. This is usually done by running a CPU as close to the stability limit as possible--with as little vcore as possible. Eventually the CPU will be able to run with less vcore, or at slightly higher clock speeds. This seems to only work with brand new CPUs (less than two weeks old or so). I tried this with my new 4200+ and it did work for me.

    Ideally, you should use an application such as Prime95, SP2004, OCCT or CPUBurn as they will provide error detection and are more intesive than F@H. F@H generally does a good job at detecting corrupted WUs before they are sent out but I would not use it as a stability or stress testing tool. There is really no harm in running F@H to 'burn-in' a non-OC'ed system as per the first definition. It is highly unlikely that you'll have WUs ending early in that situation.
  • csimoncsimon Acadiana Icrontian
    edited June 2006
    What does "with as little vcore as possible" mean exactly? Is this with a lowered clock or stock clock or highest clock?

    OK ...I'm not sure what my default vcore is since it's listed at newegg as 1.30/1.35. So ...I set it to 1.325v. Then I upped my clock to 2500mhz. It seems to be stable for now but it might need to go up to 1.35v to be stable.
    Anyway ...at this point do I raise the vcore if unstable or lower the clock?

    I never did burn-in cause I never understood it as you can tell!

    Also ...according to cpu-z my voltages fluxuate between 1.34 & 1.376 or thereabout. Overvoltage is disabled. Fluxuating vcore is very common for this board.
  • KrazeyivanKrazeyivan Newcastle, UK
    edited June 2006
    Hi Csimon, I am in the process of putting a basic burning-in guide together hopefully for the benefit of all short-media readers. I have been super busy with other things recently hence the delay, going on holiday soon too - lucky me!.

    But, if you wish to check out my thread I did I mention it towards the end. Ideally the simple simple version is this - You teach your CPU to function on as little juice as possible it then helps with overclocking by maintaining the stock voltage when you normally have to increase, this reduces temps and puts a smile on your face

    First off - BACKUP important stuff!!
    run complete stock - make sure everything is stable
    Then slowly decrease from the stock vcore of the CPU in as small jumps as you can make - re-run (with dual core CPU's) 2 instances of Prime95 - max heat - run for at least 10 hours - I prefer 24 to be honest.
    Go down with the vcore as low as possible following this method, until you fail the in some way - test, no post or whatever.
    Then go back up one step in vcore (what was stable and retest)
    Then start overclocking the CPU back at stock vcore, you should hopefully see a nice increase. I managed to get to around 2650 ish with 1.35v with my Opty 170 - this is a slow process mind and requires patience.

    Hope you get some success and I will hopefully finish my full guide as soon as time allows

    HTH
  • csimoncsimon Acadiana Icrontian
    edited June 2006
    ah thanks ...I wasn't sure what to do so I primed it all night at 1.175 2100.
    I'try your method tonight.
    2100.JPG 160.8K
  • KrazeyivanKrazeyivan Newcastle, UK
    edited June 2006
    If your vcore jumps about a bit it could cause you some instablity - mine was mostly rock solid - but when stressing it throw everything you can at the processor
  • csimoncsimon Acadiana Icrontian
    edited June 2006
    Krazeyivan wrote:
    If your vcore jumps about a bit it could cause you some instablity - mine was mostly rock solid - but when stressing it throw everything you can at the processor
    Yeah not the most stable reading by far. When I set it to 1.40v (max) with overvolting is goes to about 1.50v idle. Then when I put it under load it will dip usually to around 1.44 or 1.46v but it does hop around quite a bit.

    So now I've got it folding 1.175v which is being reported by my monitoring software and cpu-z as 1.20v even with the overvolting disabled. I'm running at 2110 and will probably climb to 2120 tonight if all has been stable all day. We'll see. :wink:
  • csimoncsimon Acadiana Icrontian
    edited June 2006
    Still not quite sure if I'm doing this right. Maybe someone can walk me thru with an example just to be sure.

    Ok ...I'm presently at 250X10@1.325. My actual voltage under load is 1.35v average. I prime and fold for hours on end lets say 24 hours. What's my next move do I up the htt to 251 then 252 and so on til I can't get stable anymore lke lets say 255 ...then do I up the volts to 1.35v and continue til I cant go anymore lets say 260? And so on?
  • KrazeyivanKrazeyivan Newcastle, UK
    edited June 2006
    csimon wrote:
    Still not quite sure if I'm doing this right. Maybe someone can walk me thru with an example just to be sure.

    Ok ...I'm presently at 250X10@1.325. My actual voltage under load is 1.35v average. I prime and fold for hours on end lets say 24 hours. What's my next move do I up the htt to 251 then 252 and so on til I can't get stable anymore lke lets say 255 ...then do I up the volts to 1.35v and continue til I cant go anymore lets say 260? And so on?


    That a slightly different way than I advise. Does not mean its not correct though! :wink:

    Why not keep it there but drop the vcore see how low you can go with 250x10.

    OR

    If you are wanting to crank it then sure push up the htt and see what you can get - I have found it very important to retest after EVERY bump up.

    My first results from my burn-in went from having to increase stock vcore at 2.4Ghz (opteron 170) to getting stock vcore to 2.64Ghz. That took a few weeks mind, patience is required!

    I am aided with my DFI mobo - its an excellent overclocker - the CFX3200 has a billion things to tweak too. Still a few things to tweak BIOS wise for rock solid stability

    Hows your temperatures at the moment are you noticing any benefit??
  • RWBRWB Icrontian
    edited June 2006
    Hrm, how would this work on a system that's not been touched(in terms of OCing) for a few months? I don't think I have ever actually burned in any of my equipment before, not fully at least.

    Could I do this voltage training on my A64 X2 3800+? It currently runs at 2.4GHz, I'd like to see if I could try overclocking it again and get even higher if possible. But I have forgotten much of the knowledge I used to have.
  • csimoncsimon Acadiana Icrontian
    edited June 2006
    Hmmm ...I'm missing a post? :scratch:

    I must have misinterpreted the whole thing. I started at stock frequency and undervolted from there. As a recap ...I volted down to 1.175v cause 1.150v gave me an undervoltage message from the bios although it would run in windows. It made me uncomfortable. So I tuck with that.

    Then I began to overclock from 200x10 5mhz at a time. when I got to around 220x10 I tried going into windows but I got blue screens and freezes so I tried again at 215 and finally 210 which let me in. From there I began burn-ins with sp2004 for a few hours then I'd switch to f@h for a few more. I've let it burn anywhere from 8-12 hours maybe more but not less.
    Now I'm up to 217X10 which is wonderful really ...but will it help me on the top end? LOL
    I guess I'll keep on going until I can't go anymore then I'll try the method you mentioned. I can get to 250x10 @ 1.325v but it's not stable any lower than that so I'll try a burn at that setting and see what happens.

    That will be in a few days of course!

    RWB just try it ...it shouldn't hurt anything.
  • sociable-nomadsociable-nomad New Zealand - The land of the long white cloud
    edited June 2006
    So does burning in work on other components as well such as RAM etc...?
  • lemonlimelemonlime Canada Member
    edited July 2006
    So does burning in work on other components as well such as RAM etc...?

    It sure does. Just about any integrated circuit can benefit--GPUs, RAM etc.
  • csimoncsimon Acadiana Icrontian
    edited July 2006
    I got it up to 218x10@1.175v and she's ready for 219.

    Meanwhile I upped it to 250x10@1.325 again to start there and see where it takes me. I get an average 1.35v. So what are my steps from here. Am I upping the htt or lowering the vcore? If I'm upping the htt what do I do when it won't go higher? I still haven't got this figured out.:bawling:
  • csimoncsimon Acadiana Icrontian
    edited July 2006
    An update. I left the 218x10@1.175v and upped it to 250x10@1.325v as I mentioned earlier. cpu0 crapped out after not long so I tried 248. That didn't work either. So ...I went all the way down to 245 but I also lowered the vcore to 1.30v. It worked!!! Funny cause I tried this the other day and best I can remember I could only get it up to 240 at that vcore.

    Nonetheless ...I have primed at 245x10@1.30v for almost 10 hours now and I will begin upping from here tonight. Let's see how it goes.

    On another note ...the cpu has been running 2 weeks today. Am I sol now?
Sign In or Register to comment.