Athlon Xp compared to the P4

fudgamfudgam Upstate New York
edited January 2004 in Hardware
Im confused on which Processor to get. I know when a high end P4 is compared to a high end Athlon XP, the competition is tight, even though a P4 2.8 with HT and 800 fsb has a higher clock speed and higher bus speed. So if its not the clock speed that determines the power of the processor, what is? :confused:
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  • ThraxThrax 🐌 Austin, TX Icrontian
    edited October 2003
    Instructions per cycle: This is how many mathematical computations a processor can handle in any cycle. The Athlon XP can do 9, the Pentium 4 is 6.

    Floating Point Unit: Formerly called the math co-processor, and a secondary chip you had on the motherboard before the advent of sub-.24u engineering, the FPU is responsible for assisting the ALU in mathematics. The Athlon's is better.

    Arithmetic Logic Unit: This is the part of the processor that actually does the math-work needed for programs to run. The Athlon's is faster.

    Bus efficiency: This is how well a processor can use the RAM and the bandwidth available to it. Athlon is ~90% efficiency, Pentium 4 is ~82% efficiency

    Pipeline length: The pipeline is the actual stages the math has to go through to produce a final result the computer can understand. The pentium 4 needs 20 stages for a calculation, the Athlon needs 10.

    Branch prediction: Programming "Branches," that is certain functions in a program go certain directions as the user works through the program. The branch prediction unit is responsible for patterning the user's actions and trying to figure out what he/she will do next. A mistake in branch prediction means the processor needs to start the calculation all over. This is a slowdown, invisible, but there. Athlon has the better BPU.

    There are other variables, those are the primary ones.
  • Mt_GoatMt_Goat Head Cheezy Knob Pflugerville (north of Austin) Icrontian
    edited October 2003
    fudgam said
    Im confused on which Processor to get. I know when a high end P4 is compared to a high end Athlon XP, the competition is tight, even though a P4 2.8 with HT and 800 fsb has a higher clock speed and higher bus speed. So if its not the clock speed that determines the power of the processor, what is? :confused:

    Just answer the part I put in red from your quote? :rolleyes2

    Top end P4's = 200 fsb

    Top end Xp's = 200 fsb

    The final answeris: :scratch:
  • fudgamfudgam Upstate New York
    edited October 2003
    Wouldnt a P4 with 800 fsb have a fsb of. . . . . 800?
  • ThraxThrax 🐌 Austin, TX Icrontian
    edited October 2003
    No. 200.
  • fudgamfudgam Upstate New York
    edited October 2003
    Why would it be called "800" if it isnt?
  • fudgamfudgam Upstate New York
    edited October 2003
    I need someone to elaborate on this one.
  • MancabusMancabus Charlottesville, VA
    edited October 2003
    Pentium 4's have what is called a quad-pumped bus, which is a bus where four signals can travel per clock cycle. So it is effectively 4 X 200 or 800.

    Similarly DDR is dual-pumped when in reality the MHz is only half what is stated, DDR266 = 2 X 133.
  • Mt_GoatMt_Goat Head Cheezy Knob Pflugerville (north of Austin) Icrontian
    edited October 2003
    Mancabus

    Absolutely right!

    fudgam

    But as you see, the actual speed that everything is moving at is really 200 in the example I used where the actual fsb is 200. If you look at the old P4's that were called 400's the actual fsb was 100, then they went to 533 which is 4 x 133 fsb.
  • RWBRWB Icrontian
    edited October 2003
    The Athlon is the better Processor but the P4 has such a high clock rate that it can compete easilyw ith the Athlon. For Gaming I would get a Athlon, but for a workstation I would get a P4. The P4's clock rate seems to still hold true that MHz does still matter in some workstation applications. But with Athlons amazing FPU it is just better for anything concerning Graphics. Note I mean REDERNING and not video/audio stuff. I have seen that P4's are better for Video/Audio decode and encode than any Athlon by far in many cases.

    So I would think about what this PC's main use will be.... Audio/Video stuff, or Gaming?

    P4's do seem to have the advantage with Memory Bandwidth though too. Even with the NF7-S, AMD can't touch my moderatly OC'd P4 IS7 without some major tweaking. 4.1GBps now and rising.... If I bought the IC7 I would be beyond 5GBps, grr.
  • fudgamfudgam Upstate New York
    edited October 2003
    oooooooooooooooo. After reading what thrax had to say, im leaning to an Athlon Xp. Would I be losing any processing power by going with an Athlon XP instead since it does not have a ... Quad-pumped bus and higher clock speed? And this is just me being curious, how come when you buy a P4 2.8 or an AMD 2400+ at 2 ghz, the clock speed is advertised but not any of that other stuff.
  • RWBRWB Icrontian
    edited October 2003
    fudgam said
    oooooooooooooooo. After reading what thrax had to say, im leaning to an Athlon Xp. Would I be losing any processing power by going with an Athlon XP instead since it does not have a ... Quad-pumped bus and higher clock speed? And this is just me being curious, how come when you buy a P4 2.8 or an AMD 2400+ at 2 ghz, the clock speed is advertised but not any of that other stuff.

    People only look at numbers, even if they have no clue what it is.... and marketing knows this.
  • fudgamfudgam Upstate New York
    edited October 2003
    I'll be doing some major gaming on my pc. And some of that folding stuff if theres any time left in the day.
  • RWBRWB Icrontian
    edited October 2003
    Mancabus said
    Pentium 4's have what is called a quad-pumped bus, which is a bus where four signals can travel per clock cycle. So it is effectively 4 X 200 or 800.

    Similarly DDR is dual-pumped when in reality the MHz is only half what is stated, DDR266 = 2 X 133.

    Well it sends and receives the infrmation at the high and low points of the frequency. So it is DOUBLE data rate, not dual pumped.
  • RWBRWB Icrontian
    edited October 2003
    fudgam said
    I'll be doing some major gaming on my pc. And some of that folding stuff if theres any time left in the day.

    Athlon ;)

    Ohh BTW, I use a P4 system, but only becuase I have been very bad with money and didn't think ahead :( But I don't regret it, with my classes I need to use the P4 for my Digital Media stuff anyways. I work with Photoshop, Illustrator, AfterEffects, and later on I will be doing Director and other programs which I believe runs better with P4's becuase they rely more on Clock speed than effeciency, but I may be wrong.
  • Mt_GoatMt_Goat Head Cheezy Knob Pflugerville (north of Austin) Icrontian
    edited October 2003
    If you are truely serious I would ask 2 questions.

    1.) How much do you realistically have to spend on this and will you be recycling any parts?

    2.) What are ALL of the intended uses and how much of each will it be used for?
  • MancabusMancabus Charlottesville, VA
    edited October 2003
    RWB said
    Mancabus said
    Pentium 4's have what is called a quad-pumped bus, which is a bus where four signals can travel per clock cycle. So it is effectively 4 X 200 or 800.

    Similarly DDR is dual-pumped when in reality the MHz is only half what is stated, DDR266 = 2 X 133.

    Well it sends and receives the infrmation at the high and low points of the frequency. So it is DOUBLE data rate, not dual pumped.

    Yeah i know, i was just saying it was similar , not the same.

    I just got caught up in the pumping stuff.
  • WuGgaRoOWuGgaRoO Not in the shower Icrontian
    edited October 2003
    //mini hijack
    what would be better... a 2.4c or a 2500+....what will give me the better overclock in general?
  • Mt_GoatMt_Goat Head Cheezy Knob Pflugerville (north of Austin) Icrontian
    edited October 2003
    Careful on that pumping Mancabus! ;)
  • Mt_GoatMt_Goat Head Cheezy Knob Pflugerville (north of Austin) Icrontian
    edited October 2003
    WuGgaRoO said
    //mini hijack
    what would be better... a 2.4c or a 2500+....what will give me the better overclock in general?
    I would go with the 2500+ and as a benefit you would be dollars aheah too!
  • RWBRWB Icrontian
    edited October 2003
    2500+ also, I think it overclocks better too... so in the end you get a faster CPU for cheaper too. But almost half the memory bandwidth of course.
  • MancabusMancabus Charlottesville, VA
    edited October 2003
    mtgoat said
    Careful on that pumping Mancabus! ;)

    "Just Pump it, Pump it up."
    "Just pump it, pump the bird."

    Pump up your nikey turkey this thanksgiving.

    All you SNL fans should know that one.
  • WuGgaRoOWuGgaRoO Not in the shower Icrontian
    edited October 2003
    moeny isnt really an issue...its only about 60 dollars difference...its for my roomy...he wants it to compile
  • Mt_GoatMt_Goat Head Cheezy Knob Pflugerville (north of Austin) Icrontian
    edited October 2003
    Mancabus said
    mtgoat said
    Careful on that pumping Mancabus! ;)

    "Just Pump it, Pump it up."
    "Just pump it, pump the bird."

    Pump up your nikey turkey this thanksgiving.

    All you SNL fans should know that one.

    ROTFLMAO;D ;D
  • Mt_GoatMt_Goat Head Cheezy Knob Pflugerville (north of Austin) Icrontian
    edited October 2003
    WuGgaRoO said
    moeny isnt really an issue...its only about 60 dollars difference...its for my roomy...he wants it to compile

    That's just for the processor. But factor in the additional cost of a top rate Canterwood board and that adds another $100.
  • fudgamfudgam Upstate New York
    edited October 2003
    I'm willing to spend $1900 on this pc and there will be no recyled parts. I will be mostly gaming on it. Ill want to burn cds and dvds too. This is a pc where your parents yell at you for spending so much money to play video games.
  • fudgamfudgam Upstate New York
    edited October 2003
    The P4 2.8 I wanted would have been $263. So I have $263 to throw around for an Athlon XP. Any suggestions? Im thinking about a 3000+. I know AMD and Intel will take stable chips and underclock them and sell them as different processors. If the 3000+ and 2800+ are the same thing, then I'll take the 2800+ instead and save some cash.
  • Mt_GoatMt_Goat Head Cheezy Knob Pflugerville (north of Austin) Icrontian
    edited October 2003
    With that for a budget we could even get you a real nice gamer that folds when not in use otherwise and a second machine as a dedicated folder. Then you could tell mum and dad your doing something for the good of humanity! :D
  • fudgamfudgam Upstate New York
    edited October 2003
    The good of humanity? How does does showing off your processor help humanity?
  • Mt_GoatMt_Goat Head Cheezy Knob Pflugerville (north of Austin) Icrontian
    edited October 2003
    fudgam said
    The good of humanity? How does does showing off your processor help humanity?
    Not showing off your processor but folding. You could have 2 machines and one could be a full time folder.
  • fudgamfudgam Upstate New York
    edited October 2003
    Then I guess I dont know what folding is. Isnt folding a benchmark that just keeps going. And if it is, how does that help anybody?
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