Basic RAID questions.

ZuntarZuntar North Carolina Icrontian
edited July 2006 in Hardware
Alright, call me an idiot or newb or what ever............

I have never installed or used any raid functionality what so ever before.

I have a friends rig with two 250Gb SATA drives on a Asus A8N-SLI (939, nforce 4) mobo. This is a new system, never run before. He wants a RAID 0 setup.

The RAID driver, best I can tell is on the install cd that came with the mobo, no floppy.

PLEASE correct me if I am wrong!!!!! I should enable raid functionality in the BIOS, start the OS install, when it askes me if I want to run a raid setup I should say yes and insert the raid floppy that I don't have and............................ what?

I don't really know what I need, and there is no "raid driver" on the asus website. Do i have to use a floppy? Do I need a driver? :confused::wtf:

Comments

  • Mt_GoatMt_Goat Head Cheezy Knob Pflugerville (north of Austin) Icrontian
    edited July 2006
    Yes, you need the driver that is extracted from the CD to a floppy. The only way around it would be to a tool called nLite and follow this guide.

    You will also need to enable raid in the motherboard bios then configure it in the RAID bios (hit the key(s)) when your board powers up that is asked for to enter the RAID bios. The select the type and configuration you want.
  • primesuspectprimesuspect Beepin n' Boopin Detroit, MI Icrontian
    edited July 2006
    Zuntar wrote:
    Alright, call me an idiot or newb or what ever............

    idiot! newb!

    whatever! :p
  • primesuspectprimesuspect Beepin n' Boopin Detroit, MI Icrontian
    edited July 2006
    On a lighter note:

    I would highly, highly, highly recommend (nay... I beg you).. to NOT install an OS on a RAID-0 volume.

    RAID-0 is the worst thing you can do. You essentially double your chances of losing all of your data, and you get a very neglible performance increase in return. Plus, having the OS on the RAID 0 negates most performance benefits you would have gotten anyway. In addition, the onboard RAID controller is not a true raid controller - it's software based (yes I know there's a chip controlling it but it's not a true hardware controller. The chip relies on the OS to perform the functionality, and basically just offers a virtual device for the OS to hook to) - a TRUE hardware RAID controller contains a dedicated CPU, dedicated RAM, and dedicated interface chips. This is the only way to get a real performance increase from RAID 0.

    RAID 0 has only one place (in my mind) - a video editing or audio editing machine. You use RAID 0 for high-performance scratch space - and then ONLY if it is a true hardware based controller. You don't keep anything important on a RAID 0. If one drive dies, the whole thing is gone.


    That's my 2 (bitter) cents from someone who's been there too many times to count.
  • Mt_GoatMt_Goat Head Cheezy Knob Pflugerville (north of Austin) Icrontian
    edited July 2006
    Brian
    With all the people asking similar questions and then saying they want to do it anyway. Even after I tell them I have done RAID-0 for years and know the ins and outs. I have even stated that for an OS and apps that it isn't as good as separate drives for OS, apps and file storage ( 1 drive each). I have learned some cool stuff but they never listen. :(

    Also when you say you increase the risk it is more than you think. With a single drive and the cable comes loose no big deal. But in a RAID-0 you can loose everything. So you increase it to 2X for 2 drives, 2X for 2 cables and 1X for the controller. So you basicly increase the risk 5X for an increase in speed that is only applied to the largest files you could ever use and loose in terms of seek time and small file transfer time. Sounds like a loose, loose, tiny win situation to me.
  • primesuspectprimesuspect Beepin n' Boopin Detroit, MI Icrontian
    edited July 2006
    I can say this: 9 out of 10 RAID 0 volumes that I have ever worked with have failed, and everything has been lost.
  • ZuntarZuntar North Carolina Icrontian
    edited July 2006
    I don't dissagree with you at all!! I have talked to him about the risks and the rather small results. But I have yet to change his mind, so........ I will talk to him tonight and read to him what you have said here.... maybe he will listen.

    I insidently went with one 150G raptor for my OS instead of a raid 0 setup ,thanks to Larry, and couldn't be happier!!!!:cool:


    Oh, and Thanks for your help, as always!!!!!!!!!!!!!:thumbsup:
  • Mt_GoatMt_Goat Head Cheezy Knob Pflugerville (north of Austin) Icrontian
    edited July 2006
    primesuspect wrote:
    I can say this: 9 out of 10 RAID 0 volumes that I have ever worked with have failed, and everything has been lost.
    I forgot to say I have given up telling people about the perils. :rant:
  • primesuspectprimesuspect Beepin n' Boopin Detroit, MI Icrontian
    edited July 2006
    Read the quote in Zuntar's sig - that PERFECTLY applies to RAID 0 ;D

    "Fast is fine, but accuracy is everything" :Pwned:
  • ZuntarZuntar North Carolina Icrontian
    edited July 2006
    Lol!!:tongue:
  • Mt_GoatMt_Goat Head Cheezy Knob Pflugerville (north of Austin) Icrontian
    edited July 2006
    Yeppers! ;)
  • airbornflghtairbornflght Houston, TX Icrontian
    edited July 2006
    Count another vote for the hell no to the OS on a RAID 0 array.

    And mt, if you are really trying to find the increase in risk of a failure, you would want to find the permuations wouldnt you? so it would be 2 * 2 * 2, for 8 times the increase of a irrecoverable failure. because any one or combination of those things could go wrong.
  • ZuntarZuntar North Carolina Icrontian
    edited July 2006
    Update: I emailed him again yesterday afternoon and he agreed that he didn't want to take the risk of failure vs the minor gain, soooooo no RAID , just two WD SE 2500KS SATA2 disks.

    Now Mr. Goat.................:nudge:
    Mt_Goat wrote:
    ..................... I have even stated that for an OS and apps that it isn't as good as separate drives for OS, apps and file storage ( 1 drive each). I have learned some cool stuff but they never listen...........................

    I am listening!!!! I have placed his OS on 1 of the 2 drives, should I install his apps on the 2nd drive or just on the 1st one with and files and games on the second? or just let him fill it as he wishes.:skeptic:
  • edcentricedcentric near Milwaukee, Wisconsin Icrontian
    edited July 2006
    I have a system, I am not sure that it is optimal, but it works.
    Partition both drives into two or three parts.
    OS in C, apps in D, (both on same physical drive), app data on E, misc storage (mp3s) on F (both on other physical drive.
    At least I can manage stuff this way.
  • EnverexEnverex Worcester, UK Icrontian
    edited July 2006
    What Goat suggested WILL NOT work. You need to download the Asus Makedisk program and use that to make the driver discs. Media Mans guide and everything else will likely not work. Hell, it may even work out like my issue and you wont get that far, just blackscreening before the blue setup screen appears.

    Oh, just noticed your post saying you're not doing it anyway. Oh well.
  • Mt_GoatMt_Goat Head Cheezy Knob Pflugerville (north of Austin) Icrontian
    edited July 2006
    Zuntar wrote:
    Update: I emailed him again yesterday afternoon and he agreed that he didn't want to take the risk of failure vs the minor gain, soooooo no RAID , just two WD SE 2500KS SATA2 disks.

    Now Mr. Goat.................:nudge:



    I am listening!!!! I have placed his OS on 1 of the 2 drives, should I install his apps on the 2nd drive or just on the 1st one with and files and games on the second? or just let him fill it as he wishes.:skeptic:
    Just partition the second drive so you have a partition for the apps (perferable at the beginning of the drive) and another for storage. If the first drive is large you can divide your staorage into 2 segments. Files often accessed and/or changed on the second drive and things not often accessed on a partition after the OS on the first drive. this means that there will hardly ever be a conflict in where the heads of either drive need to be most of the time. Be certain to leave extra space on the OS partition for work space and at least 25% of the partition free. this keeps things speedy.
  • Mt_GoatMt_Goat Head Cheezy Knob Pflugerville (north of Austin) Icrontian
    edited July 2006
    Enverex wrote:
    What Goat suggested WILL NOT work. You need to download the Asus Makedisk program and use that to make the driver discs. Media Mans guide and everything else will likely not work. Hell, it may even work out like my issue and you wont get that far, just blackscreening before the blue setup screen appears.

    Oh, just noticed your post saying you're not doing it anyway. Oh well.
    Why wouldn't nLite work? I have been using it since it came out with great results!
  • EnverexEnverex Worcester, UK Icrontian
    edited July 2006
    Mt_Goat wrote:
    Why wouldn't nLite work? I have been using it since it came out with great results!

    Well, it would, but you'd need to use my method and make the disk then use those drivers to integrate into nLite (because integrating from the downloaded nForce drivers doesn't work, it ends up asking for the disk still or claiming it can't copy certain files, even when using Media Mans method).
  • Mt_GoatMt_Goat Head Cheezy Knob Pflugerville (north of Austin) Icrontian
    edited July 2006
    I don't use the downloaded drivers. I use the ones from the CD that are extracted to a floppy or on older set-ups the floppy and integrate those. Yes, you are right abnout the ones that are just the chipset drivers or conroller drivers that are made for installing after the OS is in place. Also, on the nForce4 boards you need 2 drivers for the RAID controller.
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