AMD thermal output?

digitaltreedigitaltree Suffern, NY
edited July 2006 in Hardware
Does anybody know where I can find information about how much heat (in Watts) AMD's CPUs are supposed to put out? And how much they'll put out when OC'd with higher V-core?

Comments

  • airbornflghtairbornflght Houston, TX Icrontian
    edited July 2006
    It comes down to the conservation of energy. There are many forms of energy, I will name a few such as: kinetic and potential are the main forms. Potential, electrical, heat, and chemical energy are just a few of the sub-types if you will.

    The law states that energy can neither be created nor destroyed. What happens is that it is transfered, or converted in form, and then energy efficiency comes into play.

    Such as. All the transistors in your processor run off of electricity, they are probably around 60% efficient iirc. That means that 60% of the energy consumed is actually applied to the application it was intended for, the other 40% is lost, or more correctly, converted to another form of energy, in our case, thermal energy. So lets say that a processor uses 100 watts to keep things simple. and it is 43.78 percent efficient.

    That means that 56.22 watts is lost to heat, and 43.78 watts of energy is applied. The rabbits whole gets quite a bit deeper, but I dont really care to go any more. I learned a hell of a lot more than I thought I would in a year of physics, if anybody gets the chance, I seriously encourage anyone who has the chance to take it. My class had about 12 people in it, and it was an awesome class. If you have a teacher half as good as mine, you will be so glad you took the class, I owe a lot to my teacher, because Mr. Sacket isnt your run of the mill teacher, he was awesome, We would work on an assignment for 2 weeks, cause we would have very in depth discussions, and go into hypothetical situations, and he loved it, as long as we were learning. He is a hard person to describe, but he is probably the best teacher I have ever had. I started out having him for computer classes (Multimedia, Internet Services) then physics and internet services again last year. To bad everyone can have him, he is that good.

    Anyway, back to your topic, I kind of ran off track there ehh? What you need to find out if possible is how much the processor consumers, and how efficient it is. That will get you pretty close to the thermal output(W) of the processor, though, that will be at its peak running 100%, it will not always be that high. And Im gonna pull a figure out of the air, and say that you want a cooler than can handle 15-25% more output than what you have, because you dont want the cooler running into the ground trying to keep up.
  • tmh88tmh88 Pittsburgh / Athens, OH
    edited July 2006
    which amd processors are you wondering about specifically?
  • digitaltreedigitaltree Suffern, NY
    edited July 2006
    I'm looking at the max thermal output of the AMD X2 line and possibly the curve as V-core is increased.

    By the way, airbornflght is right on about physics. I've taken three years' worth, in high school and college, and it's some interesting stuff. Thermodynamics was never my forte, but I still enjoyed it. I was always more into the basics of Newton's laws, leaning toward astrophysics.
  • airbornflghtairbornflght Houston, TX Icrontian
    edited July 2006
    Yeh, one of the funner things we did this year, was our teacher asked us a simple question, if you drilled a hole through the center of the earth, and you jumped in, what would happen?

    The answer is it depends where you jump in at. if the hole is right on the pole, then you will fall straight down, acelerate to your terminal velocity, and then once you cross the equater, assuming you have burned up yet, you will start to slow down. And assuming you jumped in at 6,400 km above the equater, you will go that far above the equater on the other side, and you will eventually end up like a pendulum and stop. resting in the center of the earth with 0 gravity (maybe micro gravity) But if you go in paralel to the equator, you will go I forget how far, then the earths rotation will will make the tunnel moving, and at a certain point, your surface velocity will be faster than the velocity of the tunnel the further down you go, and you will be a greasy spot on the side of the tunnel, just something that we had some fun with.

    My school only offers one physics class, and is a senior class, there was only 2 other juniors in it, some kids didnt even know we had physics, I wish we had physics 2 or something, I would take it.
  • edited July 2006
    digitaltree, this page here has the specs on most x86 processors made. The X2 procs have either an 89 watt or 110 watt max TDP. The dual core Opteron socket 939 procs all have a 110 watt TDP.

    For figuring how much power your overclocked cpu is drawing, this webpage here gives you an easy to use formula for figuring the power draw of your overclocked cpu. Look towards the bottom of the page.
  • airbornflghtairbornflght Houston, TX Icrontian
    edited July 2006
    Hmm, it says that my S754 at the most can handlee 57.8 Amps. So at 1.5 volts, that is 86.7 watts of used power.

    And that tec I found earlier was a 226 watt unit, so considering it is only 40% efficient, that is 90 watts of heat dissipation. Now, my processor wont be putting out all 86.7 watts of power as heat, but lets say that it is only 40% efficient as well, that means it would be putting out 52 watts of heat.

    So if the peltier can dissipate 90 watts, and my processor is dumping around 52 watts, then would I even need a fan to cool the peltier? from the looks of it, I would only be pushing it to a little 60% capacity. Considering all figures are correct.
  • edited July 2006
    Airborn, I don't know about the figures you are coming up with on efficiency are concerned, but if you try to cool your A64 with a 226 watt pelt, you will need a big ass radiator and watercooling to handle the heat load from your setup. And this is from my experience with peltier cooling in the past. I was cooling a P3 1.26S at 1710 MHz with a 120 watt pelt and at 1.85v vcore and it was stressing the watercooling system I was using at the time, with water temps running in the 40 C and above range. My processor temps were great at around -5 C at 100% load and -25 to -30 C at idle. And you are talking about a pelt with almost double the power transfer capability of my old setup. And the heat load on your watercooling system is additive, so you not only have to dissipate the heat being transferred from the pelt itself, but also the heat generated by your highly overclocked A64 (and yes, if you go with a pelt setup you will push your system really hard ;) ). Another big problem is dealing with all the heat being dumped into your room too. Not only do you have to deal with the heat from the pelt/proc, but you also have a considerable amount of heat that will be generated by the power supply for your pelteir element too. And that psu will run you about an extra $100 minimum. You can't run a 226 watt pelt off a computer psu; they draw too damn much current and would smoke anything less than a 1KW PC Power & Cooling beast in short order.
  • airbornflghtairbornflght Houston, TX Icrontian
    edited July 2006
    muddocktor wrote:
    Airborn, I don't know about the figures you are coming up with on efficiency are concerned, but if you try to cool your A64 with a 226 watt pelt, you will need a big ass radiator and watercooling to handle the heat load from your setup. And this is from my experience with peltier cooling in the past. I was cooling a P3 1.26S at 1710 MHz with a 120 watt pelt and at 1.85v vcore and it was stressing the watercooling system I was using at the time, with water temps running in the 40 C and above range. My processor temps were great at around -5 C at 100% load and -25 to -30 C at idle. And you are talking about a pelt with almost double the power transfer capability of my old setup. And the heat load on your watercooling system is additive, so you not only have to dissipate the heat being transferred from the pelt itself, but also the heat generated by your highly overclocked A64 (and yes, if you go with a pelt setup you will push your system really hard ;) ). Another big problem is dealing with all the heat being dumped into your room too. Not only do you have to deal with the heat from the pelt/proc, but you also have a considerable amount of heat that will be generated by the power supply for your pelteir element too. And that psu will run you about an extra $100 minimum. You can't run a 226 watt pelt off a computer psu; they draw too damn much current and would smoke anything less than a 1KW PC Power & Cooling beast in short order.


    I pretty much pulled those figures out of my arse, I have no idea how efficient the proc/tec is. I was just trying to make an educated guess. I probably have no desire to spend $400 to keep my pos 2800 cool, that would just be dumb. To spend 4 times the ammount of the processor on kepping the sucker cool, I would deserve to be called an idiot.
  • edited July 2006
    But it was fun to mess with, while I was doing it.

    If you ever get the urge to tec cool, drop me a PM. I still have my old 300 watt 24v pelt psu, a 178 watt/24v peltier element and a DD Maze1C-1 pelt waterblock hanging around. I could be persuaded to sell that for a good price. ;)
  • digitaltreedigitaltree Suffern, NY
    edited July 2006
    So, let's say I'm using a 226W pelt with a MeanwellII Aux PSU and my water cooling system has a max 1kW dissipation rate, will I have just enough cooling ability, or more than enough? I'll figure my CPU at dumping 100W to the pelt for about 330W total CPU cooling needs.
  • edited July 2006
    I just posted in your tec thread, digitaltree and should answer some of your questions. :)
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