How to set up a network?
CyrixInstead
Stoke-on-Trent, England Icrontian
Ok guys,
This is the first time I've ventured into the Networking forum. Looks very scary! Here goes...
I'd like to know how to set up a network of around 16/20 pc's. You know, something you might find in an office or at school.
I know how to set up a small p2p network, but nothing more. All the machines will run < insert os here > Windows XP Pro?? and I don't know how to do things like have account and set privideges etc.
I am aware of having to have a server or two, but what role exactly do these play in the whole thing?
I expect them to connect through switches? Can I put them into groups of say 4 pc's on a switch, and uplink the switches to each other?
Can anyone help/give me a giude? I know it seems a lot, but I really don't know how to do it.
Thanks guys & gals!
//edit - Oh, and each machine needs to be able to connect to the Internet at a decent speed like say you'd get in an Intenet cafe, so how does that fit in??
~Cyrix
This is the first time I've ventured into the Networking forum. Looks very scary! Here goes...
I'd like to know how to set up a network of around 16/20 pc's. You know, something you might find in an office or at school.
I know how to set up a small p2p network, but nothing more. All the machines will run < insert os here > Windows XP Pro?? and I don't know how to do things like have account and set privideges etc.
I am aware of having to have a server or two, but what role exactly do these play in the whole thing?
I expect them to connect through switches? Can I put them into groups of say 4 pc's on a switch, and uplink the switches to each other?
Can anyone help/give me a giude? I know it seems a lot, but I really don't know how to do it.
Thanks guys & gals!
//edit - Oh, and each machine needs to be able to connect to the Internet at a decent speed like say you'd get in an Intenet cafe, so how does that fit in??
~Cyrix
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Comments
I'd need to explain VLANs, Win2x domains, or someone else would explain Linux domains, I'd need to explain how to set up VLANs, I'd need to tell you how to write logon scripts, if you went with Windows, I'd need to tell you how to configure DNS, static addressing, logon scripting, domains, forests, trees, organisational units, groups, security profiles, addressing structures, subnetting...
The establishing of a domain is worthy of a 1200 page book, and VLAN is worth about 150 pages, subnetting atleast 100 pages...
That's almost, dare I say, too much to ask for here. :sad2:
Ok then, anyone know any good books (I can get in the UK) that will be useful to get me started??
Thanks for the prompt reply Thrax!
~Cyrix
All run XP (pro or home).
I would imagine you could get a router with an Uplink port and add a switch or hub to link the rest.
(switch or hub, guys? I forgot which one)
~Cyrix
Cyrix:
Basically, you'll need:
a SWITCH (not a hub) with 24 ports (always buy more ports than you need), cat 5e cable from all computers to the switch, and at least one server.
Server roles in a windows network, depending on the size and load, generally fit into a few roles:
Domain Controller
DHCP server
DNS server
File/Print server
Exchange server
Router (gateway)
On a small network that it sounds like you are setting up, one decent server can fill all these roles.
The server should have a decent amount of ram, and fast HDs if it's going to be a file server. The server will be running 2K or 2K3 SERVER (yes, you will need to run the server version).
Once the server is installed, you will be running a program called DCPROMO to promote the server to domain controller (this is on a 2K box). You will join all the workstations to the domain.
You will be creating shared folders and giving them permissions based on who you want to access them.
You will be sharing printers
You will have to figure out what kind of internet access is going into the place. You need a NAT router hooked up to the switch. In a Win2K domain, the domain controller should generally do DHCP. So, it'll be like this (I'll make up fake IPs:)
Your router (supplied by your ISP usually): 68.68.68.68
Your Win2K domain controller with Routing and Remote Access turned on: 10.0.0.1 (with an external interface of 68.68.68.69). (This means you have to have 2 NICs in your server-- one for the "inside" network and one for the "outside" network.) DHCP at the server, and all Win XP Pro (you need pro to join them to a domain) computers set to pull addresses automatically.
Thrax is right about one thing: You DEFINITELY need a book.. I recommend the following:
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1562059297/qid=1066863013/sr=1-27/ref=sr_1_27/104-7598663-1928743?v=glance&s=books
Don't be too daunted.. Despite some of the complexities, installing a Win2K Active Directory domain isn't THAT hard... We're here for you.
Requires VLANs
Requires Subnetting
Requires knowledge of switches
Permissions and Priviledges
Requires a domain controller
Domain controller necessities
Explaining of forests
Explaining of trees
Explaining the primary role of a domain controller
Requires DNS
Requires static addressing
Requires security profiles
Requires logon scripting
Requires active directory (MS only)
Requires organizational units (To control priveledges and user levels (Admin/user/poweruser)
Tell us more about your ultimate objective. Is this for business? Who will be using the network? You don't have to have a server - P2P works for larger networks, too. How well it works depends on what your network is trying to accomplish. If you have a central database then a server is pretty much a must; if you are just trying to share an internet connection a router + switch(es) combo will be fine.
What do you plan to do with your network?
That's Microsoft's Active Directory (God I love AD) or < what? > for Linux.
(On a side note, this is what sarcnet industries does for a living.. I've been setting up active directory domains in a vast assortment of situations since 2000)
Thrax: Why on god's green earth would he need clustering and vlans? You're talking enterprise-level configurations here, dude...... I'm sure you're very knowledgeable about vlans and all that 1337 stuff, but let's keep it simple and just tell him how to do what he needs to do...
All you need is a router, a few switches (or one really big one) and some DHCP server software.
I say to use the server as the DHCP server rather than the router because of the extra control you gain, using a router for DHCP is very restricted.
Anyway, when you use DHCP, all your machines will know where the internet is, what DNS servers to use, and what their IP addresses are, so you wont ever have to go around and change them all if you change the routers address or DNS servers.
You can use one of the current servers as a DHCP server if you can run some DHCP server software on it (depending on the OS).
Switches dont need a special uplink, you can just use a crossover or stright cable to plug one into the other. Using 4 port switches would be a bad idea for that though as you would be using up 2 of the 4 ports to connect to the previous and next switch, plus it would be excessive daisy-chaining.
Don't know about domains though...
NS
I don't know what book or site you are quoting, but if that is how they spell "privileges", I wouldn't trust it very far....;)
I agree with Prime, this does not have to be so complicated, a simple office sharing network will suffice. The biggest question is does each person need to be able to log into their account at different computers, or will everyone use the same system all the time. No sense doing domain logons if all you need is simple file sharing through one server. Not everyone needs an enterprise level network. A server, a router, a couple of switching hubs (or one big one as Prime suggests) and some shared folders on the server may be all you need here, and that is not too hard to set up.
Cheers,
Dexter...
He said he wants to cluster computers in groups of 4 or 5. I assumed he meant logically, not physically. In which case he WOULD need VLANs if he wanted to keep the machines connected to one switch completely separate.
As for "Priviledges," I'm quoting myself. It's a typo. Deal with it.
Fact of the matter is, if he wants central filesharing, privileges/permissions, he'd need a central server to delineate rights.
//EDIT:
Windows 2000 Server, Windows 2003 Standard can do it. Linux can also do it, but I don't know how with that.
As for Windows, my experience is limited to the establishment of a 2k3 Standard primary domain controller.
Install 2k3. Once it's all installed, go to start -> run and type dcpromo. This will start the active directory configuration. In the process, it'll also set up DNS and establish your computer as a primary domain controller.
DNS, you'll probably want to set it up to forward DNS requests to your ISP's DNS servers. You'll just enter their IPs for that one. When naming your Domain Controller, it's just easier if you give it a two-part name like: ShortMedia.PDC
Users would log onto ShortMedia as the domain on pre-2k clients, and ShortMedia.PDC post-2k.
If you want DHCP instead of static addressing, it's as easy as installing the DHCP server through the server management console, and then telling what IP addresses to reserve (So as to avoid conflicts with devices like printers with static IPs).
Once you've installed active directory and established your server, you can go about adding a couple OUs. The client and admin OUs.
Add the admin accounts in the admin OU (Organizational unit), and then set them members of: Administrators, domain administrators, and there's one other that I don't recall.
In the client accounts, add in all your clients. Set them members of "Users."
As far as creating security profiles, you can do that from the control panel in the Domain Security Policy section. You can also just establish two groups that coincide with your OUs. Clients and Admins. Then you set the security profiles to clients and admins uniquely, then just add your users to each group. Security is delineated.
For logon scripts, if you want to map a home drive and a shared drive, and all your clients are 2k or later:
net use h: \\computername\nameofshare\%homeshare%
That maps a share with their active directory user name. Be sure to create a folder with their user name. My name is Rob Hallock, for example. When creating the 2k3 server at school, we named the computer ITA-BOSS, the shared folder is "home," and my username is "hallockr."
My logon script would be as this:
net use h: \\ITA-BOSS\%homeshare%
And MIGHT be "net use h: \\ITA-BOSS\Home\%homeshare%"
I can't remember right now.
If I log into an account on a 2k or later box, I would get my H: drive remotely mapped as "Hallockr on ITA-BOSS."
If it's pre 98, you can't use %xxxxx% variables. And I think you have to make unique logon scripts for everyone. In this case:
net use h: \\ITA-BOSS\hallockr or net use h: \\ITA-BOSS\Home\Hallockr
These logon scripts are stored in a specific directory, and I can't remember that either.. Something like c:\winnt\system32\sysvol\<domain>\... Bah. I'm not in front of my 2k3 server, it's at school.
If you want to map a central folder so EVERYONE can save and open, that's a lot easier:
net use s: \\computername\share
Then just set permissions on those shared folders. User-specific folders need to have permissions so only that user account + admins can access it. Full permissions (Read/write/modify). A central file folder should have full access to all clients, and you have to determine if you want read/write/modify/etcetera on it.
As far as the networking side goes:
You'll want to avoid clustering, as that needs VLANs. Just use a switch, and you'll be ok. Connect the server to the switch, and the server to the internet and set up your IPs in Windows through the network card configs.
If you need proxy server support, cacheing, logging, monitoring etcetera, I find Microsoft's ISA to be extremely robust. I like using it.
There. I was useful.
Kidding you man!
It doesn't sound like he wants to cluster them any more than having several on the same switch to me.
Buy one switch, link everyone to it. If you want to cluster computers, connect 4 computers to a 4 port hub, then the hub to a switch.
----
Prof
Heh. Atleast what I said was relevant, relatively free of typos, and coherent!
Good advice, too!
But it's very good stuff (thanks everyone)!
Sorry about the clustering Thrax, I meant physically
Reading through prime, Nightshade, Dexter & Thraxs posts I have a good idea of what I'd like to do now.
If I get stuck I'll be sure to ask some questions. But the whole thing is still some way off before it ever gets off the ground.
Incidentally, due to < eventually> having access to a network of a similar size to the S-M LAN Party, would it be possible to use the network for the odd LAN party (thinking S-M LAN UK here!!!)
~Cyrix
All you need to make a LAN party easy are free network ports and a DHCP server and thats it. Connect the machines and they are ready to run (with internet access to boot).
NS
If I have 16 PC's, and I have some server software (Windows Server 2k or 2k3), does that mean that I need to get it with at least 16 client licenses??
Wow, it's going to be expensive if so...
~Cyrix
The EULA also states that you SHOULD have them for a legal install, not need to have them. Ahem.
Clients will work without adding those CALs through License Management.