WLAN - LAN Questions

edited January 2007 in Science & Tech
Hello!I have a few questions about WLANs...
1.First of all,can a router work as a hub?i mean if i don't use it as a router can i use it as a hub?
2.If i have an Access Point(Levelone) and a wireless router(linksys) at the same place with the same SSID, but both use a different channel,will i have any conflict problems?
3.I have a levelone AP.Though i enter the configuration webinterface via ethernet,through wireless is not accessible(even if it is connected).why is that?And i don't either have wireless Internet.what's going on with that also?
That's all for now...i have a few more but we will move step by step...!
Thanx...any help would be aprecciated!

Comments

  • QCHQCH Ancient Guru Chicago Area - USA Icrontian
    edited January 2007
    1.First of all,can a router work as a hub?i mean if i don't use it as a router can i use it as a hub?
    Yes... (Technically, it acts router. A router is just a very smart switch, which is just a VERY, VERY, smart hub).
    2.If i have an Access Point(Levelone) and a wireless router(linksys) at the same place with the same SSID, but both use a different channel,will i have any conflict problems?
    As long as only one of them is the DHCP server and the other just does switching. The second wireless router becomes a bridge. I have the same setup at my house in order to maximize coverage.
    3.I have a levelone AP.Though i enter the configuration webinterface via ethernet,through wireless is not accessible(even if it is connected).why is that?And i don't either have wireless Internet.what's going on with that also?
    Hmmmm.... not sure. Anyone else have a suggestion?:scratch:
  • PterocarpousPterocarpous Rosie the Riveter Lives On in CA, USA! New
    edited January 2007
    QCH2002 wrote:
    ...I have the same setup at my house in order to maximize coverage....

    Hey QCH2002
    Could you explain in more detail how you're doing this? I have extra wireless routers I'd like to put some use to. Do you mean you're essentially using the 2nd wireless router as a hub? Did you have to bring an ethernet connection to it from your main router? If so, what port did you plug into on the 2nd router - the WAN port??? One of the LAN ports? Did you have to use a cross over cable? Can you do this w/ a 2nd router if it doesn't have an AP option?
  • QCHQCH Ancient Guru Chicago Area - USA Icrontian
    edited January 2007
    I ran a ethernet cable to the far end of the basement. I setup the router (B) to NOT do DHCP. It grabs DHCP from the other router (A). They both have the same SSID but run on different channels. I can grab signal from the backyard off of Router A and go sit in the garage and grab signal from router B.

    Usually I don't go wondering from one point to the other with the laptop but when I do, it noramlly switches over without problems :thumbup
  • QCHQCH Ancient Guru Chicago Area - USA Icrontian
    edited January 2007
    Oh... I have the Ethernet cable plugged into the WAN port, I think....
  • PterocarpousPterocarpous Rosie the Riveter Lives On in CA, USA! New
    edited January 2007
    QCH2002 wrote:
    Oh... I have the Ethernet cable plugged into the WAN port, I think....

    Cool! Thanx QCH2002. I wanted to do that here but the problem was running the patch cable from router A to router B. I had to do it wirelessly.

    I ended up setting up repeaters. I don't like having to use them, though because it kills my wireless security. I usually lock down my router by MAC address, etc. This is undone, however, when using the repeaters because I have to set the repeaters as "allowed" by their MAC addresses. The security on the router can be circumvented by simply accessing it via one of the repeaters instead. :werr:

    In addition, I have to set the wireless security to the lowest common denominator on my LAN which is WEP. I know that's not very secure and would like to increase the security but I don't see how. Others in the house and one of my systems only have WEP as an option on their wireless NICs.

    Do you have any ideas how I might set up the wireless network more securely in this situation????
  • QCHQCH Ancient Guru Chicago Area - USA Icrontian
    edited January 2007
    Well... if your router is issuing DHCP address and only gives them to systems on the MAC list, won't that prohibit unauthorized PC's from getting an IP address not on the MAC list?

    Also... what type of encryption are you using on the wireless? WAP, WPA, WPA2? Are you broadcasting your SSID?

    The way I look at it... Don't broadcast SSID, use the highest encryption that you can (WPA, please), MAC filtering... that will keep all but the true diehard hackers out.

    Anyone else have a suggestion?
  • PterocarpousPterocarpous Rosie the Riveter Lives On in CA, USA! New
    edited January 2007
    QCH2002 wrote:
    Well... if your router is issuing DHCP address and only gives them to systems on the MAC list, won't that prohibit unauthorized PC's from getting an IP address not on the MAC list?...
    You'd think so, huh? But, I found that isn't the case. One day one of my roommates boasted to me that she had managed to connect her friend's laptop computer to the Internet (via our wireless LAN). She was proud she'd gotten it working. I, however, was surprised and a bit pieved! I'd thought I'd locked it (the wireless LAN) down. My conclusion was the repeaters are a back door so to speak when it comes to wirless security by mac addresses. The router is apparently scrutenizing the traffic up to the repeaters only. It apparently is not looking at the mac addresses that are behind the repeaters! :banghead:
    QCH2002 wrote:
    ...Also... what type of encryption are you using on the wireless? WAP, WPA, WPA2?...
    Unfortunately the best I can do is WEP. Most of the nodes on this network use NICs that don't support WPA and above encryption.
    QCH2002 wrote:
    ...Are you broadcasting your SSID?...
    Yes. Should I not be? I can see where turning that off would be prudent. If I don't broadcast the SSID, how can the other users on the LAN find it? :scratch:
  • QCHQCH Ancient Guru Chicago Area - USA Icrontian
    edited January 2007
    You'd think so, huh? But, I found that isn't the case. One day one of my roommates boasted to me that she had managed to connect her friend's laptop computer to the Internet (via our wireless LAN). She was proud she'd gotten it working. I, however, was surprised and a bit pieved! I'd thought I'd locked it (the wireless LAN) down. My conclusion was the repeaters are a back door so to speak when it comes to wirless security by mac addresses. The router is apparently scrutenizing the traffic up to the repeaters only. It apparently is not looking at the mac addresses that are behind the repeaters! :banghead:
    Hmm... I've never used a repeater so I am not sure how that works. Sorry...
    Unfortunately the best I can do is WEP. Most of the nodes on this network use NICs that don't support WPA and above encryption.
    Well... make the pass phrase complex... more than 10 characters with special characters and numbers...
    Yes. Should I not be? I can see where turning that off would be prudent. If I don't broadcast the SSID, how can the other users on the LAN find it? :scratch:
    By not broadcasting the SSID it makes it difficult for anyone to grab you wireless. Only those that need to access the wireless need to know the SSID. It's another way to protect your wireless network.:vimp:
  • PterocarpousPterocarpous Rosie the Riveter Lives On in CA, USA! New
    edited January 2007
    QCH2002 wrote:
    Hmm... I've never used a repeater so I am not sure how that works. Sorry... Well... make the pass phrase complex... more than 10 characters with special characters and numbers...By not broadcasting the SSID it makes it difficult for anyone to grab you wireless. Only those that need to access the wireless need to know the SSID. It's another way to protect your wireless network.:vimp:

    Thankyou QCH2002

    The WEP passphrase is 16 completely random characters. No special characters, though. I can change it to add that. However, I thought there were sniffers out there that could pull the PWD off of every so many packets making WEP essentially useless (at least as far as the hard core hackers are concerned).

    All the repeater does is grab the signal from the router and boost it so that other wireless devices can connect to it. It then relays that traffic to the router. Other than that it's pretty dumb.

    As for not broadcasting the SSID, I haven't done that before. How do you connect to the router (wirelessly) if you don't have an SSID to choose from?

    More importantly, how do I keep users on the LAN from trying to connect to other nearby wireless radios instead. I know they'll do that if they don't see our wireless radio/router to choose from.
  • QCHQCH Ancient Guru Chicago Area - USA Icrontian
    edited January 2007
    The Wireless is available but does not show up in the "Wireless Network" area. Assuming there are no other wireless routers in an area, a router not broadcasting its SSID would still show no networks available. A user would need to create a profile and manually enter the SSID and network (WEP) key. Then the wireless would show up and connect.

    As for how to keep users from connecting to other wireless networks.... user education/ training. Do you have control of the PC's, as in as an administrator of the PC's. Do the users have admin rights?

    Integrated Intel wireless has the ability to have the local admin account create a global profile that all users get regardless. This allows you, the admin, to make it seamless to the user. Dell installer does not install the necessary components but you can re-install the Intel wireless through the "Add/ Remove Programs" and select "Modify".
  • PterocarpousPterocarpous Rosie the Riveter Lives On in CA, USA! New
    edited January 2007
    QCH2002 wrote:
    The Wireless is available but does not show up in the "Wireless Network" area. Assuming there are no other wireless routers in an area,...
    That's one of the problems. Wireless routers are so powerful now, it's not uncommon to pick up a handful of routers in a single family home area. Our situation is no exception. Depending upon the time of day, etc. I can see up to 4 routers broadcasting.
    QCH2002 wrote:
    ...a router not broadcasting its SSID would still show no networks available...
    I'm not sure what you mean by "show no networks available". I think I'm just going to have to give it a go so I can see what you're referring to.
    QCU2002 wrote:
    ...A user would need to create a profile and manually enter the SSID and network (WEP) key. Then the wireless would show up and connect...
    Right. I've configured each computer w/ the router SSID and WEP key. It "should" be saved. Still, sometimes, it (the key) has to be entered again. (this is in the case of the Windows Wireless Utility.) Two of the computers (new Dell Inspiron laptops) use a 3rd party utility that is more versatile. I'm able to go into that utility and create profiles and actually remove wireless radios in the area that I don't want them to connect to. The profile saves this configuration and blocks access to those routers.

    Unfortunately the Netgear wireless utility that came w/ one of the NICs is buggy. I had to disable it and use the Windows Wireless Utility which is very limited as far as configuration goes. (e.g. cannot configure profiles)
    QCU2002 wrote:
    ...As for how to keep users from connecting to other wireless networks.... user education/ training...
    I couldn't agree more. But, as hard as I try, it's an uphill battle. In all fairness to the users, these are difficult concepts for them to comprehend. Because of this they are easily confused which leads to frustration...which in turn leads to yours truly w/ a fair amount of finger pointing and not so friendly demands to fix it!
    QCU2002 wrote:
    ...Do you have control of the PC's, as in as an administrator of the PC's. Do the users have admin rights?...
    In short, No. The computers belong to my extended family/roommates. I am the "go to" person for both repairs and blame when it comes to anything computer-related around here. (If they only could comprehend how many times I've bailed them out and what it took to do it! :rant:) Anyway, that's enough fussing and self-pity. In the end, removing the need for the user's participation or intervention as much as possible is the way to go.
    QCU2002 wrote:
    ...Integrated Intel wireless has the ability to have the local admin account create a global profile that all users get regardless. This allows you, the admin, to make it seamless to the user. Dell installer does not install the necessary components but you can re-install the Intel wireless through the "Add/ Remove Programs" and select "Modify"...
    Hmmm. Two of the computers are new Dell Inspiron laptops. I could do that. They don't seem to have any problems - at least their connectivity problems are more infrequent. In fact, the one I have the most trouble w/ is an old Dell Dimension desktop w/ a Netgear 802.11b wireless NIC installed. ((I think :scratch: ) I've tried a 802.11g on that system and didn't see any difference.)
  • QCHQCH Ancient Guru Chicago Area - USA Icrontian
    edited January 2007
    The simplest way to describe the SSID broadcast is using an analogy... It's like having an unlisted phone number. You can still receive calls but only from those that already know the number or if someone guesses (mistakenly mis-enter your number).

    The wireless lists is "number" (SSID) to whomever is within the coverage area. Anyone can "try" to attach to it. If your network was unsecure, they would just connect.

    When you turn off the SSID Broadcast, the wireless is still there, it just "unlisted". A average Joe doesn't see it. The wireless card knows that there something out there but has no idea what it is or what its called and decides to not tell you. Average Joe can manually enter the SSID and suddenly, the wireless card goes "OH... that mysterious signal is really this SSID!!!, OK, you can try to connect now."


    (Paraphrasing the actual dialog between the user and the wireless card... some discussions may vary based on language, politeness of the user and mode of the wireless card.):vimp:
  • PterocarpousPterocarpous Rosie the Riveter Lives On in CA, USA! New
    edited January 2007
    Excellent analogy, QCH2002. I'm gonna give it a wack and see what happens. Definetly, turning off SSID broadcasting is prudent.

    Thank you!
  • QCHQCH Ancient Guru Chicago Area - USA Icrontian
    edited January 2007
    Thanks....:cool:
  • edited January 2007
    good questions
  • PterocarpousPterocarpous Rosie the Riveter Lives On in CA, USA! New
    edited January 2007
    kiransvr wrote:
    good questions
    Hi Kiransvr. Welcome to Short Media! Stick around! We're a friendly community and terrific resource whether you be novice or expert. You're welcome to contribute & to ask questions. Whatever suits ya. :thumbsup:
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