Abit NF7-S Problems!
Hey all, got my new rig a few months ago and put in an Abit NF-7S. I got a bunch of probs hopefully someone can help me out.
The one that I'm worried about is when I run Winbond hardware monitor that came with the mobo. I get non stop warnings about my +12V core and +5V core exceeding there limits. I mean its like non stop I have to basically disable monitoring on those to get it to shut up. So my question is, whats up? I have a 425+ watt Enermax PSU, is it bad? Why would my +12V core and +5V core constantly be exceeding the limits? Should I just ignore it? Or is this serious??
The other problem is my comp is very sluggish. My programs are fast etc, but it seems whenever the harddrive is accessed or multiple things are happening it chugs. For instance, a lot of times just moving my mouse around the screen it stalls for a second, then continues moving, even when nothing else is running it sometimes does this. When listening to music, if I right click, or open an app or something, the music stutters,crackles and gets fucked until the app or whatever it is i'm doing is done. When I'm downloading large files, once it gets to 99% the whole comp sorta sits and hangs for about 30 seconds where I can't do anything, then it completes and all is fine.. So to me it seems like something to do with my IDE drivers or something? Obviously something is very wrong.
I”ve updated my BIOS to the latest using Abit’s update software (really cool), I’ve also updated their chipset drivers, my video drivers, and audio drivers. I have 2 sticks of ram, tried using just one, and even tried both in solo, still exact same problems..
I went from an Epox 8k7a+ to this mobo which I heard is a great board. But it seems like I'm having nothing but probs. Can anyone offer me some help with these problems? Things to try etc? I just downloaded the Abit mobo bios update software so going to give that a go as well.
By the way, everything in BIOS is basically minimal settings. I have my RAM settings at optimal thinking that would fix it, but nada. Only other major things I think I changed was AGP set to 8X fast writes on and all that jazz, and I think I have 256 megs to AGP aperture since I have 1gig of ram..
Praying for some help here guys!
Todd
Edit: One more thing I jsut noticed, when I go to my device manager and twirl down "System Device" I have MULTIPLE duplicates of certain things which doesn't seem right. For instance I have 3 "Motherboard resources", I have 5 "NVIDIA nForce2 Memory Controller". That doesn't seem right to me, how the hell did multiples get in there? And Is it ok to delete the multiples??
The one that I'm worried about is when I run Winbond hardware monitor that came with the mobo. I get non stop warnings about my +12V core and +5V core exceeding there limits. I mean its like non stop I have to basically disable monitoring on those to get it to shut up. So my question is, whats up? I have a 425+ watt Enermax PSU, is it bad? Why would my +12V core and +5V core constantly be exceeding the limits? Should I just ignore it? Or is this serious??
The other problem is my comp is very sluggish. My programs are fast etc, but it seems whenever the harddrive is accessed or multiple things are happening it chugs. For instance, a lot of times just moving my mouse around the screen it stalls for a second, then continues moving, even when nothing else is running it sometimes does this. When listening to music, if I right click, or open an app or something, the music stutters,crackles and gets fucked until the app or whatever it is i'm doing is done. When I'm downloading large files, once it gets to 99% the whole comp sorta sits and hangs for about 30 seconds where I can't do anything, then it completes and all is fine.. So to me it seems like something to do with my IDE drivers or something? Obviously something is very wrong.
I”ve updated my BIOS to the latest using Abit’s update software (really cool), I’ve also updated their chipset drivers, my video drivers, and audio drivers. I have 2 sticks of ram, tried using just one, and even tried both in solo, still exact same problems..
I went from an Epox 8k7a+ to this mobo which I heard is a great board. But it seems like I'm having nothing but probs. Can anyone offer me some help with these problems? Things to try etc? I just downloaded the Abit mobo bios update software so going to give that a go as well.
By the way, everything in BIOS is basically minimal settings. I have my RAM settings at optimal thinking that would fix it, but nada. Only other major things I think I changed was AGP set to 8X fast writes on and all that jazz, and I think I have 256 megs to AGP aperture since I have 1gig of ram..
Praying for some help here guys!
Todd
Edit: One more thing I jsut noticed, when I go to my device manager and twirl down "System Device" I have MULTIPLE duplicates of certain things which doesn't seem right. For instance I have 3 "Motherboard resources", I have 5 "NVIDIA nForce2 Memory Controller". That doesn't seem right to me, how the hell did multiples get in there? And Is it ok to delete the multiples??
0
Comments
deleting them until you have one of each should not cause any
problems. Make a list of all the hardware in your system we
need it to help. Also let us know if you are using onboard sound.
I dont have this motherboard but have been looking at it.
Yeah I didn't think that was normal, I'm going to try deleting them one at a time right now and see if my computer blows up.
I'm NOT using onboard sound, I have a Hercules card installed for sound, a Geforce4 Ti4200 AGP 8X graphics card, and a network card installed. 1 gig of corsair memory (2 512 sticks). CD/RW drive, and 3 harddrives hooked up. Processor is an Athlon XP 2400+. No overclocking, minimal bios settings.
Does that help at all?
Todd
Edit: Well I just deleted tons of duplicate stuff, no ide how the hell they all got there (shrug) I did a clean install on a formatted drive of XP Home Edition so kinda strange. ANyway going to try rebooting now and pray that the comp starts up....
items are on that IRQ? Your computer will not blow up by
deleting some things. Your IRQ slots may need changing or if you
go into the BIOS and turn off printer ports not being used it will
free up IRQ slots automatically. Sometimes a souncard must be in
a particular PCI slot to work properly I find that slots 3 and 5
work best but every motherboard is different.
In the BIOS I've actually disabled onboard sound, onboard networking, onboard Firewire, both serial ports, parallel port, and the SERIAL ATA. I disabled them all because I'm not using them so figured I'd free up some IRQ's.
I deleted all those duplicates but as soon as I rebooted they are all back again. I'd post a screenshot of my device manager but I have nowhere to post it. If you want I can email you a SS of it.
Something is definately fucked up here big time, and I have no clue as to why or what. By the way, AMD Fan, do you have any idea about my voltages being all fucked up as stated in my first post?
HELP ME !
Todd
Also, a fubarred from surge modem can cause a box to act really strange. Ditto that with a NIC.
some stuff now and those voltages are a good place to start.
Tell us exactly how much they are on what rails please. Also
Ageek may be on to something with the memory needing to be
checked run memtest86 later after we check the voltages out.
Ageek is really good glad he is here to help.
long way. Hercules makes excellent soundcards but maybe you
should try the onboard sound and see how it works? I have heard
from others its really quite good!
Those voltages may be normal but we need to know exactly what
you are getting to really comment at all.
Oh in windows try deleting everthing in a colum that has several
windows XP should reload it on reboot. We need a XP person here but I am sure that you can do this.
PS. What is your memory voltage? Try 2.65 volts helps stability.
I have tried the onboard sound, and the problems seemed to be there as well, I'll give it another go though to make sure.
As far as voltages, my +12V is giving alerts because it is running around 10.5ish average. The low limit is 11 in the hardware monitor box. My +5V low limit is 4.49 in hardware monitor and it is running around 4.55 on average and sometimes dips below the 4.49 which causes the error.
"Tell us exactly how much they are on what rails please" I'm not sure what you mean by what rails, could you explain that some more for me?
"Oh in windows try deleting everthing in a colum that has several
windows XP should reload it on reboot"
- So let me make sure I understand right. For instance, under "System Devices" there are a few things with duplicates. Are you saying to delete EVERYTHING under System Devices? Even things without duplicates? If so I'll give that a shot. I tried deleting just the duplicates, but as soon as I rebooted the found hardware beeps kept coming up and next thing I knew they were ALL back..
As far as memory voltage, I'll have to check, I have everything at default as far as those go, but I'll check on my next reboot.
Thanks so much for trying to help, I appreciate all of your help so far and hope we can get to the bottom of this, its driving me nuts.
Todd
Those voltages are too low. I dont think that is cuasing your
problem in windows though. Yes under system devices just
delete EVERTHING under the colums with duplicate items. Windows will reload upon reboot you may need drivers on
CDs but most likely not for XP. Let XP load the drivers it wants
too.
That power supply is not working well this is unrelated to the
items under system devices but may well affect sound. Duplicate
items under system devices will also affect/could sound.
I have a Enermax power supply too but most say Antec is better
on a AMD system. I have had no problems and my voltages are
11.86 on the 12v rail and 4.97 on the 5v rail a little low but not
bad and within tolerances. Your readings are very poor. Sorry
12V output, system wide, from a PSU, is called the 12 volt rail output, as it is split from 110 independently.
Ditto for 5 volts, although a cheaper PSU can be wired to pull 5 volt rail output down from 12 volts instead of 110 directly.
So, lets look at this:
10.5 volts is .875 of 12 volt ideal. A good PSU should be within 5-7% of spec all the time. That means a minimum of 11.16 volts.
4.45 volts is .89 of 5 volt ideal and the ideal min is 4.65 volts if the PSU is sized right and very good.
If you have a VOM and a surge strip, power down the PC, unplug the cord to main computer box from the surge strip, and measure the output from that same outlet in the surge strip. See if you get a reading under 100 VAC. If so, the PSU will try to step what should be 110 VAC down to 12 volt and get about 10.9 volts or less out the 12 volt rail, as cheaper PSUs have no ability to compensate for undervoltages for a long time (and to a PSU that long time is about .5 seconds or less). The 5 volt rail will come out about 4.55. Write down wahat value you got and where it came from.
Check the output on any outlet of the surge strip and the output out of the duplex outlet that is not used for the surge strip, with the gear running. See if you have 110 out to the duplex outlet and about 110 out of the surge strip itself. If both are the same, and are 110 or not less than 100, you have isolated the problem to the computer PSU and it needs replacing. I would get a bigger one than also, a 450 or 500 Watt PSU (they will draw what is needed by computer).
If they vary....
At that point, the problem is not in the computer or the house power circuit and not an overloaded circuit if the outlet on the wall feeds 110 and the surge strip feeds under 100, so you replace surge strip. If both are low, you need to see if just the house circuit is overloaded. To check, try the outlet that the surge strip is plugged into on the wall, and an outlet at random in another room. If the outlet in the other room is normal (about 110), and the one in the room where your computer is plugged in is low, you have a bad outlet (internally corroded or GLAZED\Crystalized metal in outlet from a surge damage or age) or an overloaded circuit. Write all your voltage readings down as you go-- it will be helpful later, very helpful.
Now, plug in your main computer, unplug the printer and anything you do not need to run main box (just main computer box and monitor for now).
See if the surge strip outputs the same voltage as the wall and both are normal. If yes, the circuit was overloaded in the room you have all your gear in. Then you need some of the gear to run on another circuit or you need to run less gear at any one time.Turning a powerful stereo off will drop lots of load to a circuit.
I think this flows, if not ask about what deos not seem to make sense. I had some editting issues that resulted from something outside the site that left me with paragraphs drag-dropped all over the place and had to rebuild this message after reading on forum. So if you saw a mess for a few minutes, thta is why. If not should work fine.
Lets hit the power first, then work on software as needed-- low voltages in a system or outside it coming in can cause all sorts of flakes that will then be fixable once the power is fixed.
I ended up just going into the BIOS and writing down a bunch of stuff including what you needed, here are the voltages listed in the BIOS.
CPU Core: 1.65V
DDR SDram: 2.6V
Chipset: 1.6V
AGP: 1.5V
Memory TImings:
Row Active Delay: 6
RAS-to_CAS Delay: 3
Row precharge delay: 3
CAS latency Time: 2
(these are just the optimal default settings)
Now onto Ageek. I brought home a Voltage Monitor today and checked every outlet in the surge strip I'm using. Everyone was over 120, averaged about 122 on the meter. So I'm assuming that is normal and right. So does that mean my 435W Enermax is the problem for the low Mobo voltages? Or could it just be my mobo is flakey? I just bought that PSU under a year ago, and it worked fine in my old rig a few months ago, just want to make sure befoer I bust out another $100+ for a new one..
Also, obviously my voltages are a huge priority. But I'm really leaning towards the other problems being something with my IDE chain/connectors. The sluggish hard drive access etc I'm talking about. Because just today I tried burning a CD for the first time on this rig, and I noticed when it was burning, I could not do ANYTHING else on my comp. I was trying to talk on messenger while it was burning and it was just frozen, couldn't see anything, or had no response until the burn was done. At work and on my old rig, I could burn CD's and listen to music, surf the net, work in Photoshop etc etc all with no slow downs or problems. So I'm thinking there is definately something wrong here with my IDE channels on the mobo??
Also AMDFan, I still have yet to delete EVERYTHING under the sections in my device manager that has duplicates, simply because I'm scared
I'm ready to take more suggestions and more advice guys. Thanks in advance.
Todd
A Backups ES 550 Watt UPS will be able to handle this also, plus give you some shut down time for a decent rig. The best surge strips cost $40-50.00 USD, the APC 550 ES costs about $79-90 dollars if no rebates available and you shop-- and the ES has a battery for the shut down time plus 6-8 minutes and does a decent job of power conditioning.
I actually run a non-gamers Barton rig on a 350 ES but that is stretching it for a gamer or media box with DVD or an OCing rig.
High voltages passed through can strain a PSU, so it needs to be protected from that. depending on the PSU and load, it can overcompensate and end up undervoltaging things as it tries to compensate.
NOTE:
I can kill everyting in the system area, not the CD-ROM drive or or video, and have windows reestablish things itself, have done this semi-suicide appearing thing quite a few times when doing mobo swapouts and wanting old O\S .
This exact thing let me migrate a few Windows intact to whole new mobos without a reinstall. Others have messed it up-- but here is the way out: save a safety point in the System Restore Wizard before doing this. Restart Widnows. THEN delete what you want in the system area. If it cannot reboot normally but can boot into safe mode and you have to, you can then restore from your restore point,and this restore point if you reboot between will also become a last known good point for a recovery from the Windows install or a CD boot into the recovery console.
BUT, fix the power first with either a good surge suppressor or a small UPS. Doing this will give your PSU and computer a longer life at worst, and at best will fix things so that Windows will act more normally-- IME much more normally.
For my business machine, my Barton rig actually runs well with 98 SE. For heavy modern multimedia or gaming, you need XP. For online you need 2000 or XP unless you surf in Linux or FreeBSD.
Why does this apply to DVD burning??? DVDs in burn mode use lots more juice than when reading. A strained PSU cannot switch as fast for this or sustain a very high load compared to capacity when it is gettign voltages high or low compared to how it acts when voltages are very close to normal.
If you have a UPS in alarm mode it will beep when power gets out of range, so you do not need a logging multimeter running to see voltage changes. Not only that, it dampens both drops and surges and chronic highs and lows toward normal best. That is why I use and recommend UPSs and leave the alarm on.
Ageek looks at your results and verifiys that but that is the way
it looks to me. Sometimes power supplys can fail due to poor
current from the line if you live in a rural area it is common. Ok
Ageek is correct in saying that these low voltages can cuase all
of the problems you describe I agee 100%. Just so you Know
Ageek is the guy I get my adivice from sometimes and he is very
knowlegeable. Now you could not do anything while burning CDs
today this is a classic low power problem. You only had enough
power to burn the CD your lucky the burn did not hang up. Those
Bios settings are fine you can try the 2.65v on memory and change it back if problems occur but I really think the power issue
is number one right now. Antec has a new one called Truecontrol
500w its about 120 $. PC Power and cooling makes the best
power supplys but they are very pricey$$$.
Edit: I see Ageek posted about the power issue. Try what he said
and see how things come out its good advice. Sulgish hardrive is
another referal to low power thats why it is slugish. On deleting
your hardware is system resources ask Ageek to confirm it will
not hurt anything windows will just reload it after you reboot and
hopefully only add one item intead of numerous ghosts.
Todd
plug anything into your motherboard please?
Ageek, so you are saying that 122 average from a wall outlet is too high? I thought 120 was the normal output? And if so, if I understand you right, you are saying to go buy a NICE surge strip or a backup UPS or something to plug my things into? If so I'll give that a shot.
Still haven't deleted everything in system devices yet, will try that tonight before bed.
Also, are we sure that I don't just have a faulty mobo? I mean my last system worked fine on this outlet, it just seems to be this one..
Keep the advice coming, and I'll keep you posted on results.
Todd
110 +- 5-7%
so 95 volts to 115 is ideal
and 102 to 118 is good and will not hurt the PSU
But, lets look at this quickly:
Power Util normal and within acceptable range is
110 +- 10%
so if they feed 100 to 120 volts into house and that is normal for them.
Electronic components on average should be to spec within 5% to 7%. Feed them anything out of range, that plus variance beyond what PSU can always handle gives you an out of range beyond what the the component is normally going to vary in.
Almost no household ground is perfect. ground or neutralcan be used to return current, and an overcurrent will usually be dumped to ground by an industrial PSU because it has a light-weight overvoltage dumping capapbility. If ground from PSU to an earth rod has resistance due to corroded wires, corroded earth rod, resistance on ground bar in main panel, etc, it cannot dump that and the dump circuitry gets damaged. Then the rest of the PSU has to get rid of the rest and most except for the very best do not have what is needed to dump to return line if ground is fully in use.
So, the rest of the PSU gradually fails and PSU capacity is hurt. I have seen PSUs that are fed over 120 VAC in a years time drop to 70-85 percent capacity. They can do this on any rail of the PSU more than another.
Then capacitors that are getting overheated start to die and they can lose capacity down to 70-85% of rated capacity. Caps are not cheap. So PSU builders cut to spec there faster than anywhere else.
AND, the caps provide spare umph for quick switching. So, what then happens when you load one rail heavily?? The remaining capacity for the other rails is dropped even more. Your DVD is pulling LOTS of juice while burning, and if the PSU is at its now damaged max capacity with the DVD just reading and it doubles its load while burning -- the other rails drop due to total wattage available for use in whole machine. RAM, Video card, everything on low voltage rails gets starved for any time period greater than about 2-3 milliseconds which is all the onboard capacitors on the mobo have to really keep things up to snuff. Things cascade as the caps are strained.
Any overvoltage dumping overheats things inside the PSU more as the dumping produces heat. when the fans cannot handle it, thta ends up ratiated throught the metal surround on PSU into case. Case needs more and more fan capacity to keep it cool, and that draws more 12 volt and starves the lower voltage rails further.
I have seen PSUs die in two years. Hot climates drop the time to 2\3 to 3\4 that. People don't know this. thy blame software and hardware piece by piece but never address the root cause which is GIGO of power from supply.
Now, ways to deal with it-- new PSU more often than needed, lots mroe often, or a UPs which can handle 330 volts by design or more and dump excess so it never gets to PSU without ever missing a heartbeat of pure 110 toPSU.
Surge strips, normal ones, chop at 330VAC with a response in milliseconds-- excellent ones chop 330VAC in one millisecond max, but while they are responding the PSU gets the surge also.
Motors do not care, TVs may flicker and eventually get damaged, computers need extreme power accuracy.
UPS's are set to act in a millisecond max when voltage varies incoming more than about 8% and handle much larger variances for a shorter time by cutting incoming power totally and going to battery. They use bigger transformers and fast switching to battery to handle surges and you are gettign what to computer is a microsurge.
Damaged PSU loses capability to handle this over time more and more without something to get the power to spec the PSU needs before it hits the PSU. Failures start happening. Statisticly,even with computer ssytems I have dealt with, computers on UPSs have twice the average lifespan of those with none.
First thing that hapens is data is corrupted semi-randomly by whatever is not working right due to bad input voltage or amperage. Windows eventually gets reloaded.
I reload my Windows completely less than once a year minimum unless I FUBAR it. I have had one Windows 98 install working for 4 years on a UPSedsystem. It is my mothers computer and she uses it an hour or two a day.
I have had a 98 system of my own running 2+ years and that is about average for my clients who have UPSs. Those that do not reload once a year or more often due to random cumulative failures. When their PSU dies I usually sell them a UPS. Windows lasts longer, the swap file gets corrupted less often and things just work better baring things like viruses (Mom surfs on my Linux box).
Oh, her box uses a 4+ year old UPS and half of the components were made in 97 or earlier. And were always on UPSs from APC with surge strips that do NOT feed back to UPS and do not let it get over 330 VAC. And I live in one of the most surge- prone states in the US with a power company that thinks 12% plus minus is normal.
So, you have a choice. Replace the PSU and figure on doing it often or UPS the thing and expect an average PSU lifespan double average without progressive heat problems if you have little dust. A VERY good PSU is about $100.00 for your kind of system. I woudl say you probably can tell if the PSU is bad just by plugging in aUPS for aweek and fixing the software as still needed. And IF (and I do not think this will be needed) you end up replacing the PSU you will get much more than warranty life out of new one if it is decent.
The PSU produces the most heat in a computer, bar nothing. If you have heat issues that have gotten bad the PSU needs replacing and possibly other things. If not, then the UPS will help you from having to replace the PSU quite so soon. I have seen UPSs put in at first symptoms of wierdity trash the random symptoms, and you will KNOW in a week if it is bad.
But I will let you choose. If you want a little more info try looking at http://www.jopncdanielsonii.com/articles.html
and choose the power article there. Gradually theree will be a small series there.
In part I summarized that article here. I wrote the article before I started working with your problem with you. If no UPS, replace the PSU for starters.
Best of Luck.
As far as the voltages concerning your surge strip. I recomend checking the wall outlets and comparing those readings to the redings coming off the surge strip. If not different then don't worry about that. But I do agree with Ageek that you should be running a UPS insted of a surge protector since you are in a rural environment.
Todd
Has a basic PSU tester that will tell you if a PSU is very damaged. But a lot of this logic is math, bottom line.
PSUs like to run at 80% of load with clean power. So, your computer components should not be drawing more than 80% on any rail. Folks who really want to analysis PSUs load each rail with resistance and note when the PSU starts to float voltages out more than 5-8% randomly, and\or when it starts to heat up a lot suddenly.
This needs to happen in a very short time, as loading a PSU for long will damage it.
The average person might stick several working HDs(which draw both 5 VDC and 12 VDC) in and note how tthe PSU bahaves. Or swap the PSU into a box with the gear that they want to use in it or gear that uses about same power for a short time and measure voltages as it runs. Floats of more than 5-7% above or below what is ideal are not good.
2. Plug in to AC outlet
3. Connect the green wire to any blck wire on the ATX plug
4. Use voltmeter to test individual voltages per diagram (usually on side of PSU) be sure to test in "pairs" for the + and - polarities per voltage.
When I said "other machine" I meant to just put it in place of the PSU in another comp that is known to be in good working order to read the voltages from that machine if not confident to do the above testing.
Home Depot for 80$ and I get a 10$ rebate too. Reading this
thread convinced me. I get power flickers sometimes and my
system will shut down not good for my raid 0 array. I checked my
voltages and they are the same but mine where fine. I am sure
this was a good investment to protect my computer. This unit has
a power check on it that checks your Building for wiring faults.
open or high resistance ground
hot or neutral polarity reversed
overload neutral circuit
I was lucky no problems here but if you live in a old house its a
good check to have done. (automatically) You are getting allot of
great technical information here Todd. Like all repair the trouble
shooting is the hard part the part replacement is easy.