newly-built computer is failing

redletters4redletters4
edited November 2003 in Hardware
I have a problem very similar to what is happening with user "Diesel". I'm still very new at building computers (only my second one), but what I'm seeing looks very bad:

First power up, my power-supply fan and CPU fan worked, and the CD-ROM showed signs of life, but there was no beep at all, the monitor did nothing, and the front case fan didn't run.

I tried:
Disconnecting the drives
Removing the RAM
Removing the graphics card
Resetting CMOS (maybe I didn't wait long enough, though)

...and none of that did anything.

What finally got the front case fan running is when I removed the motherboard from the case. So, it was apparently grounding out somehow. But now I have three fans that run. Whoopee. I still get nothing in my monitor (this is with the graphics card and the RAM installed), and still no beeps.

PLEASE HELP!!!

Comments

  • stoopidstoopid Albany, NY New
    edited November 2003
    Had a similar problem with ground in my Lian Li case, so I put scotch take over the motherboard mounts it solved the issue.

    If you're still unable to boot outside of the case, then it's possible the cmos/bios jumper is in the wrong position, a memory stick or the video card is not set correctly in their slots, or a component is failing causing the entire system to halt before even POSTing (power on self test).
  • redletters4redletters4
    edited November 2003
    Good tips, thanks.

    I know it's not the card or memory being inserted wrong, as I checked that 3x. The jumper is a possibility, since I only know that I put it back the way it was (and maybe it was wrong right out of the box).

    As for a bad component, I'm glad you mentioned that. How do I figure out which one is bad?
  • stoopidstoopid Albany, NY New
    edited November 2003
    Originally posted by redletters4
    As for a bad component, I'm glad you mentioned that. How do I figure out which one is bad?

    Unfortunately trial and error and swapping out working ones for the potentially bad one...
  • redletters4redletters4
    edited November 2003
    can I at least rule out the power supply at this point?
  • stoopidstoopid Albany, NY New
    edited November 2003
    Originally posted by redletters4
    can I at least rule out the power supply at this point?

    Well, for the most part yes. But it could be a power connector issue going into the motherboard (loose wire/broken connection could cause this issue as well).

    If the fans spin I usually move on to the next possibility, usually a video card/memory reseat or jumper check... other possibility we haven't mentioned -- dead cpu :eek:
  • redletters4redletters4
    edited November 2003
    One of the I.S. guys at my company says he's "90% sure" it's the CPU, based on the fact that I don't get any beeps. Today was my last day to return that part, so I went ahead and got the return number. Here's hoping...
  • Mt_GoatMt_Goat Head Cheezy Knob Pflugerville (north of Austin) Icrontian
    edited November 2003
    Do you have access to another CPU to try in your system? I have seen a fair number of cheap generic poer supplies that would spin the fans but not boot a system. You basicly have 3 voltages coming out of the PSU (3.3, 5 and 12) and it takes all 3 of these to make things work. The fact that the fans spin only means you have a working 12v line. Since the 5 and 12 come from the same pot in most PSU's I would assume that the 5v line probably works and it is the 3.3 that powers the CPU and memory.
  • redletters4redletters4
    edited November 2003
    I do have a system with an older Athlon processor that should work. But I was hesitant to go that route, for fear of messing with a system that works, and because of how removing the cooler from the processor tends to rip up the tape in between. Might have to be brave and try it anyway...

    You gave me another idea. I can easily put my motherboard next to my good case, move the cables, and see if I get juice. That power supply is at least 250W. I assume that would be enough for an Athlon XP 2100+ ??
  • Mt_GoatMt_Goat Head Cheezy Knob Pflugerville (north of Austin) Icrontian
    edited November 2003
    TAPE???
    What tape are you referring to?
    If you are tlking about thermal tape on the bottom of the heat sink remove it!!! And replace it with a thin layer of Actic silver or another quality thermal paste.

    You could try it but AMD recomends 300W.

    I would try both CPU's in opposite boards.
  • redletters4redletters4
    edited November 2003
    OOPS - I meant the "thermal compound" that conducts the heat transfer after you remove the tape (I have the retail box). There's definitely no tape installed. I was referring to the way that thermal compound tends to rip when the cooler is removed, leaving hunks of it stuck to the processor. When that happens, and you want to reinstall the same processor/heat sink, is it OK to try to squish that compound back to the way it was originally, or do you recommend replacing it altogether? I worry about trapped bubbles, etc. That's why I'm fearful of moving processors around.
  • Mt_GoatMt_Goat Head Cheezy Knob Pflugerville (north of Austin) Icrontian
    edited November 2003
    That is still what I meant as it is pure evil for heat transfer. Other thermal pastes are much more efficient. I would also recomend a diferent heatsink as the retail AMD ones are terrible.

    Just remove what is on there and replace it with some Arctic silver III or 5. With AS-III you will need to smear a very light fim across the core of the CPU. You do not want to put it on thick at all!
  • NYCDrewNYCDrew NYC(duh)
    edited November 2003
    Thermal tape is the worst means of cooling the CPU. You'd have better heat transfer if you went with the Thermal grease they sell at Radio Shack for $2.99. It, like Artic Silver(the Mercedes of thermal cooling products), is more of a paste or grease.

    It does not get hard after you apply it, and when replacing it you can wipe off the old stuff, clean the bottom of the HS with a little alcohol, and re-apply it in seconds.
  • redletters4redletters4
    edited November 2003
    Wow, you guys are very helpful. Thanks.

    I bought some kind of silicone paste at the local computer shop yesterday. (They didn't have Artic Silver, just overpriced alternatives.) I'll try it out soon.
  • Mt_GoatMt_Goat Head Cheezy Knob Pflugerville (north of Austin) Icrontian
    edited November 2003
    That is good news. Any paste is better than those pads or tape. Make sure you clean all the old stuff off the heatsink and CPU. I usually end up using a credit card to scrape off those pads then clean with alcohol.
  • JahyaJahya Virginia
    edited November 2003
    Hmm. I can tell you it's most likely not the cpu. The beeps are'nt controlled by the cpu, they are controlled by the cmos and motherboard systems. And since the fans operate, it is not a power supply issue. They are built to be redundant, so if there was an error the whole thing would fault out and you would not get any power.

    Be carefull installing a new cpu into that board. You might short it out. The best thing to do is check the motherboard manual for the correct placement of the mounts and grounds. There may even be a ground wire required.

    Are you using metal screws to mount this board into a metal case? Or are you using plastic mounts?
  • redletters4redletters4
    edited November 2003
    That's alarming. Well, I know I got the mount placements correctly (double checked), but I wasn't aware that some boards require a separate ground wire. Will check.

    I did use metal screws. I checked a couple places nearby and couldn't find any rubber washers or equivalent. But, as stated above, there did appear to be a degree of grounding going on, since the front fan began working only after I detached the board from the case.

    Tell me what you think of my plan:
    1) While I'm waiting for my replacement CPU to arrive, I'll try connecting my current power supply to my working desktop. That shouldn't hurt anything, right?
    2) If the PS is proven to work, I'll install the new CPU into my working desktop when it arrives. (Again, any risk to my desktop?)
    3) If that works, then I guess I'll have to assume that the motherboard may be bad. I guess that means I'll have to return it to make sure, unless I can find a cheap CPU to test on it. I'd hate to return it if I'm not sure that there's something wrong with it, though.
  • redletters4redletters4
    edited November 2003
    Wait... my last response didn't really make sense.
    Let me try that again:
    1) I'll check the new PS on my old working desktop.
    2) I'll try my old CPU on the new system (if it's compatible). No reason to test the new one at this point. And, if it gets cooked I'm only out an old CPU.
    3) If that doesn't work, even with plastic screws/standoffs, then the problem must be the motherboard and I'll have to replace it before installing the new CPU. If it does work, then the original new CPU must have been the problem, and I can go ahead and install the replacement one.

    Sound right?
  • JahyaJahya Virginia
    edited November 2003
    Do it the other way around. Use your OLD ps on your new board and chip. That way if the NEW ps is bad it wont burn your old board.

    Testing your new chip on the old board and ps, yes that would be a good idea. The chip wont short the board.

    If all of that, and the new cpu don't work. it's the motherboard.

    You've got the idea though. Troubleshoot everything.
  • redletters4redletters4
    edited November 2003
    You meant old PS on new board with old working chip, right? That way, I don't take chances on the new chip.
  • JahyaJahya Virginia
    edited November 2003
    Yep. That will test the motherboard.

    If you want to test the mobo, NEW mobo, OLD chip, OLD ps.

    If you want to test the chip and mobo, then OLD ps, NEW chip, NEW mobo.

    If you want to test the PS, NEW ps, OLD mobo, OLD chip. But you risk burning your board out.
  • redletters4redletters4
    edited November 2003
    Hurray!
    I got my old CPU to work on my new motherboard/PS/card/memory, so the problem was definitely with the new CPU. Now I just need to wait for the replacement CPU and I should be all set.

    Thanks for all your help. You guys rock!

    P.S. The thermal grease worked great!
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