Work with DAT?

Camman

Have any of you ever worked with Digital Audio Tapes (DAT)? I need a sound recording solution for filmmaking, unfortunately I screwed up and bought a camera without an audio input so sound recoding directly to the audio tape on the track can only be captured through the built in stereo mic which isn't good for far away shots, etc


Anyway, I was looking up DAT recorders on ebay so I could tape seperately then mix it in Premiere, but damn they are expensive. Just curious if any of you have worked with DAT recorders before, what kind of quality they offer (I've read 'as crisp as CDs') and whats a decent price for portable ones.

I'm also looking into just upgrading to the TRV-350 with support for plugging in an external mic, but, I'm still interested in the DAT recording..

seversphere

minidisc or upgrade the camera

MediaMan

I work with DAT for film all the time. Usually how we do it is with sync slates. The slate displays timecode generated by the DAT machine. Shoot the slate and then continue to roll on the scene.

For video I always use Betacam SP, Digital Beta or HDTV. Channel 1 and 2 are fed separately from a field mixer. Channel 2 is always fed a few dB lower than channel one.

The golden rule is that speaking voice is always mono. We only have one mouth. If voice were stereo we'd have two mouths. Singing is another mixing situation altogether. An example of recording with a stereo mic would be recording a symphony orchestra. (Non-electronic instruments)

DAT decks will have basic level adjustment but will not replace a proper field mixer. Because you are shooting video without line inputs you'll end up having to do a lot of sync work going the DAT route in the situation you are in. You can digitize the video and audio from the camera shotgun mic. Use the shotgun audio as the guide track and happy sync'ing.

In hindsight and unfortunately...it would have been best to go with a camera like a Canon GL1 or Panasonic DVCPRO...even a Sony TRV900 then feed the channel 1 and 2 inputs with a field mixer for better control over audio. This is speaking on the "prosumer" level of video.

You'll want the ability to white balance manually with any camera and you should lose the instinct to use auto focus.

Hope this helps.

Camman

Hey MediaMan, thanks for the info, you seem to really know your stuff when it comes to this!

I think I'm going to go ahead and upgrade to the Sony TRV-350, its a $500 camera, so, it's not in the "prosumer" range really, but, it's good enough for what I'm doing I think, I dont have the budget to move up to a 3-CCD camera right now unfortunately . I bought a really good book about producing and distributing independent films and generating little bits of revenue from it, we're working on a big project right now, hopefully we will end up being able to have a quality work that we can submit to film festivals, maybe generate some funds and save up for better equipment, I've been eyeing the Canon XL-1 myself, and several indie film makers have also suggested this camera as a "cheaper" professional/consumer camera (some great deals to be had on ebay!), I've read that some companies even use this camera to shoot their television commercials!

I really love doing digital video editing and shooting movies and things like that, I don't see it being a career for me or anything, but, it's my favorite hobby most definitly.

MediaMan

Why not a career? You've got a good start.

With your camera if it does have a white balance...always carry a white piece of paper and shoot that to balance in the lighting situation you are in...it's ssssssoooooooo much better.

For example...if you were driving in a car and shooting the outside....before you begin driving...step out of the car...hold the piece of paper so the sun...wherever it is..even behind clouds...points down onto the paper...now shoot the paper to white balance...presto...better colors.

Whole buncha other tricks too. Experiment with the camera.

Hell...for what you are doing go to a music store and grab a used mic stand. Clip a mic into the mic stand..secure it and use the stand...without base...as a mic fishpole. Instant better audio...providing you have someone to run a boom.

Even the cheapy radio shack wireless mics will improve audio over using the built in shotgun. OR...just run the wire down your shirt and pantleg so it can't be seen when you do your video reviews. Works like a charm. The other channel can be used to record "wild" sound.

primesuspect

I want to explore all the equipment I have to it's fullest potential - I mean when I was a teenager, this is what I wanted to do with my life (cinematography). I even got accepted to USC for film studies (did not go due to $$$$)

The biggest obstacle for me to rise above home-video jockey and camcorder-happy-father is decent audio. I've never quite been able to figure out how to get good audio with my Sony TRV320.

sigh. too many expensive hobbies.

Camman

Yeah, actually unfortunately that was one of the features the TRV series of cameras doesn't have is white balance too bad, I really like the Digital8 format because it has the digital clarity with backwards compatibilty. Know of any other cameras in the price range of like $500 that have audio inputs, thats my big problem with this camera, if it just had a standard 1/8th input for a mic I'd be all set, but, they didnt include that till the next model up so the ONLY audio solution for recording audio onto the tapes is through the built in mic, which isnt bad if you're just filming some family vaca or something, but horrible for voice acting stuff as I'm sure you know, makes the people sound all echoey and far away. I gotta stay within a certain budget though, I'm just a poor college student ah well.

But yea, I was thinking about just heading down to this local store and picking up a cheap used mic stand and having someone hold it like that, but, I dont have the inputs on this camera to do it, so thats why I was thinking of the audio sync route.


Also: someone mentioned Mini Disc. It looks like it would certainly be cheaper, but, I thought minidisc was mostly for recording files like mp3s off your comp onto it and then using it like a portable walkman thing. Does anyone know, can you plug a mic into these and easily play it back for capture on a PC? if so, is the audio quality good?

Dexter

I know of TV stations who used mini-disc as a an audio source for TV broadcast, sort of a halfway bridge between using the old audio carts and going the full audio server route. Lots of post-production companies also use mini-disc instead of DAT for recording voice talent for their productions. I have used both, although I have used DAT more than mini-disc. If I were building home edit studio, I would prefer to use mini-disc, because it is cheaper than DAT, and because the media has a longer usage life. DAT is digital, but it is still tape, and one good swipe with a magnet will mess it up, one nasty crease or a tape left on the seat of a car on a hot day during a shoot, and you could have audio degradation. Mini-disc is basically CD-RW on a small scale, with outdtanding audio quality.

The best advantage to DAT is machine control, you can connect it via serial to an edit suite and batch-digitize or or do edit assemblies on the older analog edit suites. But if you can do without that (and most home users can) then go mini-disc, digitize your audio in on the fly into your edit suite, and edit away

Dexter...

Camman

sweet, thanks for the info on DAT/MiniDisc any suggestions as to a good MiniDisc portable for recording/playback (or transfer) to my PC at a reasonable price?