IE ripe for attack, despite Microsoft claims

Zuntar

Windows Vista may be "dramatically more secure" than Windows XP but Internet Explorer is destined to remain Windows' Achilles' heel.

Attacks on browsers will continue their inexorable ascent during the next 12 months, despite changes designed to lock out hackers and thwart remote attacks.

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zergpc209

From what people tell me the problem with all the hackers and malware is the programming code Windows like to use and find exploits ( ways in ) and this is why every week you are on Microsoft web sites getting up dates and patches to fix this problem.:bawling:

Many say firefox and linux is way more secure because they use a different programming code that is more secure and better.Well keep in mind most of the problem is the users are not up to date on all the patches and such and get malware .

From what people tell me most hackers will try to find ways in the programming code and most malware get in that way.You go to a web site and get malware and you don't have to click on any thing or run any thing it just comes to you by the programming code.

kryyst

The issue with hacking windows is two fold. First it's the most prolific OS in existence so a hacker wanting to do the most damage will target it. The reason why it's more easily hacked compared to linux or OSX is because windows was designed to be more friendly to use. At the time that meant that every application was working at a less secured layer so that users don't have to bother with user permissions when things want to install or run.

Another sad reality is that Windows is still based on the Dos model and is an extremely old architecture to model an OS on.

zergpc209

Many of the malware will come in and user may not even know they got malware or how they got malware .

Well Microsoft should have bean working on a new programming code for Windows vista but Windows vista was more of a upgrade to windows xp with new features than a new programming code.There where rumors that Windows vista was going to use new programming code but this not true.

And well even having AVG and zone-alarm running people still get malware and they may not know how they got it .

Well this malware comes in the weak programming code Microsoft likes to use.

kryyst

zergpc209 wrote: »

Many of the malware will come in and user may not even know they got malware or how they got malware .

Well Microsoft should have bean working on a new programming code for Windows vista but Windows vista was more of a upgrade to windows xp with new features than a new programming code.There where rumors that Windows vista was going to use new programming code but this not true.

And well even having AVG and zone-alarm running people still get malware and they may not know how they got it .

Well this malware comes in the weak programming code Microsoft likes to use.

It's not nearly as simple as that. Vista is a huge overhall of their OS. It's more a change from XP then XP was from win2000. There is no such thing as a secure OS in terms of a modern operating system. It's easy to blame the OS for flaws and windows has some major holes in it. Vista from what I've seen has been made significantly more secure. But the only real way to reduce the effects that viruses and other malware effect people is to educate users.

OS X and Linux are more secure then previous versions of windows and still probably more so then Vista. However a stupid user can still end up with an infected crippled system.

zergpc209

Well going from Windows 98 to Windows 2000 was big overhall so is going from Windows 2000 to Windows XP.Now you are saying going from Windows XP to Windows Vista is more of a overhall than going from windows 2000 to windows XP.

So what did they change the file system?

There is no such thing as a secure OS in terms of a modern operating system

I thought mac and Linux are more secure ?

So how does malware come in than?

kryyst

zergpc209 wrote: »

Well going from Windows 98 to Windows 2000 was big overhall so is going from Windows 2000 to Windows XP.Now you are saying going from Windows XP to Windows Vista is more of a overhall than going from windows 2000 to windows XP.

Windows 98 to 2k is a big change entirely different OS from the way it's built. 98 is a gui built over dos. NT, 2k and XP are all fairly similar in that they weren't built up from dos but were rebuilt from the kernel level. Vista is also a new model. It's not a huge revolution in the way the user makes the system work. But they way they've changed the security model in it and have started to separate the user layer from the protected administrator layer is a significant change for the Windows OS. The GUI itself now is actually putting graphics cards to use and using them to render the desktop instead of relying on the GPU like Previous versions of windows. They've also rebuilt the networking layer finally.

I thought mac and Linux are more secure ?

So how does malware come in than?

They are more secure because they have long ago seperated the user layer from the administrative layer. But malware can still come in if you are being dumb. If you open a picture and suddenly something wants to install on your system a smart user should know that it's not supposed to do that. However a dumb user may just merrily click along, entering the requested passwords and obliviously installing software. It's similar to a phishing email scam. The email itself isn't a virus but if you click their links and give them your banking or whatever info - your still screwed.

zergpc209

They are more secure because they have long ago seperated the user layer from the administrative layer.

Well what you talking about is having a administrative account and than have a user account that is not allowed to make setting changes or run or download from the interent.And not allowed to add new hardware or software.

But I would still think most malware will find ways in the bad programming code Microsoft uses.

But malware can still come in if you are being dumb. If you open a picture and suddenly something wants to install on your system a smart user should know that it's not supposed to do that.

You don't have to click on any thing to get malware as most malware will come in though the windows exploits.The problem with windows 98 is programs run or get download with out user permission or registry changes.

If windows 98 was more secure they would ask you for all setting changes and filter out files being run or download from the internet other than text and graphics.And ask you for permission not programs doing its own thing.

However a dumb user may just merrily click along, entering the requested passwords and obliviously installing software. It's similar to a phishing email scam. The email itself isn't a virus but if you click their links and give them your banking or whatever info - your still screwed.

Well most malware come from porn sites or sites to download free music or free games .Also free movies and other free stuff.But there is still malware from other sites and there also worms that go by e-mail address or IP address.Also some message boards have malware or MSN or yahoo groups.

I have seen people get malware just going to a website where it just comes to you with out asking you anything or it is running a program or downloading things with out asking you.The problem with Microsoft is it finds ways in with out your permission or you may not even know it came it.

kryyst

zergpc209 wrote: »

Well what you talking about is having a administrative account and than have a user account that is not allowed to make setting changes or run or download from the interent.And not allowed to add new hardware or software.

But I would still think most malware will find ways in the bad programming code Microsoft uses.

Having layers of security is about making good code. Windows in the past has never had layers of security. That's a huge problem. Vista now has layered security and core systems that run isolated from the rest of the programs. This is good code. The primary entrance point of any malware program is through the user.

You don't have to click on any thing to get malware as most malware will come in though the windows exploits.The problem with windows 98 is programs run or get download with out user permission or registry changes.

If windows 98 was more secure they would ask you for all setting changes and filter out files being run or download from the internet other than text and graphics.And ask you for permission not programs doing its own thing.

Windows 98 sucks. It had one security layer every running program had access to the core functions and nothing was secure from anything else. Win98 is dead. Move on. Now look at an XP system. I can make a system secure to attack. I can do this without installing any anti-virus or anti-spyware software. It's pretty easy to do just through setting up policies and creating a user mode and an admin mode. The problem is that people for home use don't like this They don't like having to log out of user mode into admin mode install some program or activeX control then going back into user mode etc...

The security is there in WinXP but it's terribly implemented. Vista has gone about correcting this by modeling itself after Linux and OS X in the way that they have made their security layers. Everything runs in a protected mode and if you want to do something that requires administrative mode it prompts you. You give it the admin auth it does it's thing and you are back in user mode. It's more or less seamless.

However a user can still say - yeah ok run this and your security is broken. Regardless of how secure your code is a user is always going to be the weakest link.

Well most malware come from porn sites or sites to download free music or free games .Also free movies and other free stuff.But there is still malware from other sites and there also worms that go by e-mail address or IP address.Also some message boards have malware or MSN or yahoo groups.

I have seen people get malware just going to a website where it just comes to you with out asking you anything or it is running a program or downloading things with out asking you.The problem with Microsoft is it finds ways in with out your permission or you may not even know it came it.

This is only true if you have your system setup to run all unsigned code without at least a prompt. Or if you click ok on every pop up that scrolls by. The fact is that these are all exploits that do rely on the user to make them. If I set a gun in front of you and you picked it up and shot yourself it's not the guns fault.

That being said previous versions of Windows were made to be extremely easy for a user to use. That was a bad design choice. All the features to prevent these things from happening are there even back in windows 98 the problem is that they were all disabled by default and it took knowledgeable people to turn on all the right features to secure it. XP was the first Windows system to by default have these features on and Vista has taken the next leap by making it even more secure from user negligence.

zergpc209

Having layers of security is about making good code. Windows in the past has never had layers of security. That's a huge problem. Vista now has layered security and core systems that run isolated from the rest of the programs. This is good code. The primary entrance point of any malware program is through the user.

Well the core system files should be different than basic programs and any change or any thing to the core systems files windows should ask you.

Windows 98 sucks. It had one security layer every running program had access to the core functions and nothing was secure from anything else. Win98 is dead. Move on. Now look at an XP system. I can make a system secure to attack. I can do this without installing any anti-virus or anti-spyware software. It's pretty easy to do just through setting up policies and creating a user mode and an admin mode.

Do you have some good web sites that talk about the one security layer like windows 98 and more than one security layer like windows xp?

The problem is that people for home use don't like this They don't like having to log out of user mode into admin mode install some program or activeX control then going back into user mode etc...

What is bad about activeX ?

This is only true if you have your system setup to run all unsigned code without at least a prompt.

I don't know about windows 2000 or XP but I was talking about windows 98 that you can go to a web site and get malware and don't have to click on any thing just going to a web site I have seen it happen.

Or if you click ok on every pop up that scrolls by. The fact is that these are all exploits that do rely on the user to make them. If I set a gun in front of you and you picked it up and shot yourself it's not the guns fault.

This is other problem is pop ups I have seen people click on the close box of the pop up than they get malware or it takes them to other web site.Some web sites that are bad will redirect you to other site or you get many pop ups and web sites coming up and you don't have click on any thing.

kryyst

Look I understand you've been annoyed with Win98 - you should be it's old and horribly dated software. I'm not going to argue over the merits of this OS or that. MS has made huge leaps and bounds in tightening up their security and Vista is a huge leap for them. No OS is safe, some are just safer. Users are always the final and greatest hole in the security armour. MS has always previously designed systems to make them easier for the user to do things with less nagging. They are finally biting the bullet and realizing that users are generally dumb. This required a new OS as retro'ing past versions of windows wasn't a possibility.

zergpc209

I'm trying to understand having more than one security layer how it helps and how some OS's are more secure and some of the problems with some of the older OS.

kryyst

Lots of reading to do on that subject.

Think of an OS like an Onion. With each pealing being a layer. The outer Layers are easy to use aren't really the core of the onion. The more layers you peel back the closer you get to the core and the more impact doing something on that layer has.

Good article on a modular OS build.

Good Article Good artcile on How OS X is all put together.

Good Article on how Vista went about breaking up User/Admin rights.