Quad Questions

QeldromaQeldroma Arid ZoneAh Member
edited June 2007 in Hardware
I can take advantage of a deal on a Q6600 Kentsfield quad-core (likely $350 or less).

This caught me off guard and I’m trying to do some research- so I thought I might throw it out to this community- because I don’t have the gear for it.

- It would Fold for Team 93.
- I’d like to OC it to 3.0GHz on air … ? I’m not going to push it to extreme OC as it will likely also be used by my son.
- (Q6600- the CPU clock is locked to 1066).

I’d like to ask for your thoughts and not spend over $600 on the following- (and would prefer change):

What motherboard would you suggest? Why?
What memory (2x1GB PC8500 or better)?
What cooling (air- please)?
PSU (I don’t expect to load more than more than 2 opticals, 2HDs and 1900AIW video)

Thanks :)

Comments

  • ThraxThrax 🐌 Austin, TX Icrontian
    edited June 2007
    Gigabyte GA-P35-DQ6
    2x1GB PC8000 or PC8500 - stick to the good brands (OCZ, Corsair, G.SKILL, Patriot, Crucial, Kingston...)
    Thermalright Ultra-120
    650w by HiPer, Thermaltake, Corsair, OCZ, FSP
  • Sledgehammer70Sledgehammer70 California Icrontian
    edited June 2007
    Check - Point - Match
  • edited June 2007
    If you hold off another month, your Q6600 will cost you well less than $300 too. Intel is going to have another price cut on July 22. The Q6600 is supposed to drop to $266. I'll attach a pic of the various new prices I got off the KHEPC website.

    As for ram, now is the time to buy. I just bought a 2 X 1 GB kit of G. Skill PC6400 HZ's for a little over $110 delivered from the Egg. These sticks use the Micron D9GMH chips that most all the super high overclocking sticks of ram use and there is no damn rebate to fill out either. I've seen some damn good prices on Crucial Ballistix PC8000 and PC8500 but it also involves a rather large rebate, which I despise dealing with. My G. Skills just came in the other day and I dropped them in my P5W DH rig and am presently running them at 370 MHz and 3-3-3-10 timings, no problems and with 2.2 volts vdimm.They will also clock over 500 MHz without too much hassle too, from what I've read and seen.

    As for the P35 boards, I have no experience with them yet. I do know that if you are looking for a budget p965 board that kicks ass, the Gigabyte DS3 rev 1.3 I bought from the Egg for $99 will easily go past 500 fsb with just a simple replacement of the stock tim material on northbridge and southbridge with AS5. But I've heard that the quads can be picky about motherboards and high fsb speeds too.
    attachment.php?attachmentid=23333&stc=1&d=1181942854
  • QeldromaQeldroma Arid ZoneAh Member
    edited June 2007
    Wow, Mud- thanks! Must be that Intel has a lot of stock to push. Glad I didn’t move on it yet. Maybe I’ll do even better still negotiating with this table :D .

    I think Thrax is thinking Penryn support with the P35 boards- and I think he is right because the Kentsfield could be a museum piece this time next year. Too bad we don’t have any Penryns to try the P35s out with yet :?, but I think I may have some time now for more P35 reviews to hit the wire too.

    The Thermalright 120 looks like a great cooler in the lab, but it also looks like they’re having some bad Quality Control issues (see Newegg reviews- there are too many to ignore). I also see that both Zalman and Thermaltake have new offerings I’d like to see some more numbers and comparisons on (the CNPS 9700 NT and P0401 V1 respectively).

    Because the Q6600 has a locked multiplier my concern is being able to overclock the CPU a bunch without pushing the memory (1066 is about a good as it gets for a reasonable price right now). It also seems to be a power gobbler and heat problem- factors that make me even more willing to wait for prices to drop and look carefully at HSFs. I’ve not played with Intel since Northwood and that’s why I value the input from you all so much right now.

    Overall, it looks like my best option is to be patient for a couple more weeks. It’s getting crazier in my life right now with lots of travel (my daughter has qualified for nationals in swimming again, is now eligible for international(!) competition (and is doing so) and they really like me in India and Europe for work. Proud but grrrrrrooooooooaning). So please drop a link here if you see something in the meantime.

    Again- thanks everyone.
  • edited June 2007
    Yeah, the quads are definitely power pigs, especially when overclocking them. Cooling them is a major problem when overclocking and you need to go with as good a hsf as you can with air cooling. And as far as Pneryn is concerned, I don't think the problem will be chipset support so much as yet another vrm spec change by Intel. :rolleyes: I'm not sure what boards will or won't support them but of anything on the market right now I would think the P35 chipset boards have the best chance of supporting them.

    As for ram, buy you a 2 X 1 GB kit of ram such as the G. Skill PC6400 HZ's or any other sticks that are using the Micron D9GMH chips. They seem to most all be mad overclockers and will do over 500 MHz with enough volts. OCZ also makes ram using these memory chips too, if you want to do OCZ instead. I'm sure Mack or RyderOCZ could tell you the best "bang for the buck" sticks that OCZ sells. I'm also running some older OCZ sticks (Plat SLI PC7200's) in my Gigabyte board and I've had those sticks at 525 MHz with 5-4-4-14 timings at about 2.2 volts. They also use the D9GMH chips.

    AS for the U-120 eXtreme, I have one. It's a very nice heatsink but the base finish wasn't the best in the world. It was not flat all the way to the edges of the base and it was also a little concave. It didn't take me more than an hour to lap the base though, so no big problem. The base on the U-120 I bought 3-4 months ago was much worse and took me a good 2 hours of lapping. Another heatsink I would recommend for a C2D or C2Q is the Tuniq Tower 120, which I also own. The base was pretty flat from the factory, it also comes with a fan that has a controller and it is in the same league as the regular U-120 in performance.

    EDIT: Add hsf links

    Tuniq Tower 120
    Thermalright Ultra 120 eXtreme
    Thermalright Ultra 120

    Also, if you do decide to go with the Ultra 120 eXtreme, the mount they use lets it twist on top of the processor pretty easily. I put a strip of duct tape across the top of the heatsink base to give a little more holding pressure and to give the clamping mechanism some more grip and it holds well, even with my Frankenfan installed on it. I wouldn't advise the Zalman as it just doesn't perform as well as the U-120's or TT-120. This was also found to be true by testing at Anandtech on their heatsinks tests. They are doing some really good heatsink testing at Anandtech with great methodology being used.
  • ThraxThrax 🐌 Austin, TX Icrontian
    edited June 2007
    P965 will not support Penryn.
    975X will probably not support Penryn.
    X38 definitely will support Penryn
    P35 definitely will support Penryn.
  • edited June 2007
    Thrax wrote:
    P965 will not support Penryn.
    975X will probably not support Penryn.
    X38 definitely will support Penryn
    P35 definitely will support Penryn.

    Links please, Thrax. Is this a vrm issue or what? I know I saw something on some Computex coverage that showed a badaxe2 with a Penryn, but the board had to be modified. And why not p965?

    Not being a smartass, just have the need to know and I haven't been following Penryn support.
  • ThraxThrax 🐌 Austin, TX Icrontian
    edited June 2007
    I don't have direct links for you, MD. :( I just read dozens and dozens of sites every day, and it all sorta goes into my brain for later regurgitation. It is a VRM issue (Again...), yes.
  • airbornflghtairbornflght Houston, TX Icrontian
    edited June 2007
    Is penryn gonna be native quad core? I'm trying to sift through all the info, but if I'm reading correctly (I may not be) it looks as if its just gonna be a die shrink. When will I see naitve quad core, because I really want to wait until then to buy my new computer. But if its gonna be much further off then 2H 2007 then forget it.
  • sweavesweave boston
    edited June 2007
    Thrax are you sure the Thermalright ultras will fit into the GA-P35-DQ6 motherboard? im thinking the wide body would have problems clearing the onboard heatsinks.
  • ThraxThrax 🐌 Austin, TX Icrontian
    edited June 2007
    The wide body isn't an issue. You're supposed to mount it so the sink's fins are parallel to the RAM, but it clears perpendicularly as well.
  • edited June 2007
    Thrax, I ran across some info yesterday about Penryn running on older boards such as the 975, p965 and 680i boards that was very interesting. From what I gather, the vrm issue is not the holdup really; it looks like the main issue will be if the whether or not the mobo manufacturer will write a bios update to support the new microcode for Penryn rather than a vrm issue. While looking around I came across a post at Xtreme Systems stating this:
    I work for Intel and I'm currently working on enabling 45nm CPUs on current server/workstation platforms... I'm also working on the design for the reference board for Nehalem and I can tell you.... Penryn DOES NOT need 11.1 and that 11.1 isn't even available yet and won't be for another couple months which means that the reference boards that are currently being used for Penryn validation DO NOT have 11.1 and won't at launch.

    Now...that doesn't mean that Penryn will work on retail 965, 975, or 680 platforms. Yes... the hardware is capapble but it needs software updates (Bios/CPLD) to make it work and whether or not manufactures enable it is up to them and their agreements with Intel. Don't count on it working... hope that it does but prepare yourself in case it doesn't.

    single post
    Thread where post originated.

    Furthermore eVGA has publicly stated that their 680i boards will support Penryn.

    post 12 in this thread.

    So I guess the moral of this story is: "Maybe or Maybe not" with your older 975 or p965 mobo. It all depends on how greedy the mobo manufacturer of your choice is on making you buy a new mobo.
  • QeldromaQeldroma Arid ZoneAh Member
    edited June 2007
    Penryn DOES NOT need 11.1 and that 11.1 isn't even available yet and won't be for another couple months which means that the reference boards that are currently being used for Penryn validation DO NOT have 11.1 and won't at launch.

    I think this and other things can also be why Penryn has been pushed back so much. Unless I’ve missed something, they’ve also been talking up launching with 1333, even 1600MHz FSBs for quite a while. However, there are currently no DDR2 memory boards I know of that will run at those rates- and 1600s I haven’t even seen on the market in any flavor.

    From what I can tell, Penryn is ready to ship today. I’m seeing performance reviews starting to pop up (e.g. ref Maximum PC 7/7). I wonder if Intel is waiting for everything else to catch up with P35 mobos and DDR3 sticks. I’m pretty sure they do it this way so everyone they need to do business with gets a piece of the pie.

    Still, the idea of getting a jump with a P35 is certainly tempting- but is it really? I’m just not sure yet that a P35-DDR2 board is a better investment than a good 975- keeping Penryn in mind- but I’m hoping we have some interesting head-to-heads pretty soon.
  • edited June 2007
    P35 is definitely a better buy than a 975X board. The 975X chipset has many many problems even getting up to 450 fsb. The p965 chipset is much better in this regard. My p965 DS3 rev 1.3 is stable to over 500 fsb and is rated for 333 fsb procs already as stated by Gigabyte. And I have been to 500+ fsb with my E6300 with it. But now, the quads are seeming to overclock much better on the P35 boards. Here is one person posting that he got 500 fsb with a P5K Deluxe and a Q6700.

    As far as Penryn goes, I think that Intel probably is working out some last minute bugs in the process shrink. I have read that the Penryn's they are testing now don't overclock real well/not a whole bunch of headroom. Maybe Intel is doing one more stepping change to refine the core further. After all, it's not like AMD is actually pushing them any as far as competition is concerned in either dual core or quad core.
  • ThraxThrax 🐌 Austin, TX Icrontian
    edited June 2007
    Yeah, I think anybody in the market for a new board should go P35. It's silly not to.
  • QeldromaQeldroma Arid ZoneAh Member
    edited June 2007
    Do you think trying to get DDR3 support might be worthwhile right off? Hybrid DDR2/DDR3 boards? I see that both might be supported by the same board- just not together. Right off I don't see any hybrids.
  • QeldromaQeldroma Arid ZoneAh Member
    edited June 2007
    Okay, apparently some do support DDR2/DDR3 :) . They just don't advertise it that way.

    Hope they OC Okay. Understand, I'm not after speed records- I'd be glad if it gets a Q6600 to 3.0GHz.
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