What would you say is acceptable FPS?
Sledgehammer70
California Icrontian
Pretty cut and dry question... how many FPS would you say is playable for you. or what is the lowest FPS you ever want to see on your system?
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Typically I am for 60 in games I don't see any difference when its higher (other then tearing) 60-75 look the same to me.
edit: I still play with vsync on even with my lcd's now Im pretty sure they don't have the tearing issue but I haven't tried it with it off.
http://www.100fps.com/how_many_frames_can_humans_see.htm
http://www.daniele.ch/school/30vs60/30vs60_1.html
http://www.daniele.ch/school/30vs60/30vs60_2.html
http://www.daniele.ch/school/30vs60/30vs60_3.html
Now if your eyes require glasses in anyway your FPS visual drops a bit. Don’t ask my why this is, but it has been proven by many professionals…
That said, 45+ is what I want to see. 60 especially, since I run triple-buffered vsync, but any of the various dividends that don't produce tearing are okay.
And my take on optimal FPS, well let's just say it's not what I want, it's what my 4GB ram, (soon to be, hopefully) 8800 GTS, and AM2 Athlon x2 6000 say it's gonna be.
As far as my opinion goes, it's not how high the fps is, it's how well the textures can program themselves to match the fps.. if that makes any sense.
Corey
I'm sorry for what's about to happen. Okay no I'm not.
First off, I have a very extensive background into rendering systems and three-dimensional art, having made dozens apon dozens of models for the Half Life engine. I also have a very deep background into hardware rendering systems, mainly OpenGL. I even brought in a friend to analyze this post. Matt from the Half Life mod, The Specialists. Actual conversation with Matt;
Matt/Schmung says:
t's not how high the fps is, it's how well the textures can program themselves to match the fps.. if that makes any sense.
^ That sentence is garbage or your mate getting his terminology wrong. I think what he actually means is 'how well the image is synced with the refresh'
FailMarine says:
Ain't such a critter in OpenGL.
FailMarine says:
I think the guy's full of ****.
Matt/Schmung says:
that would be a fair assessment
Matt/Schmung says:
hes talking out of is arse
-We trailed off here about something else, then I asked if I could quote him-
Matt/Schmung says:
As far as my opinion goes, it's not how high the fps is, it's how well the textures can program themselves to match the fps.. if that makes any sense.
eh?
Assume what he means as how well the rendered image is matched to the refresh of the monitor. Not so much an issue with CRT, but a problem with LCD as its effectively 60hz and a bit more susceptible to artifact.
Matt/Schmung says:
Buffering : Just holding a rendered screen in memory and pushing it to screen when you're ready. Buffered image flipped onto screen, new one shoved into buffer. Rinse repeat. Triple same, but now you've got an additional buffer, so it's smoother.
Matt/Schmung says:
60 FPS is about ideal and more than decent for most things. Other thing to consider is how close you are to the screen and with LCDs response time a factor as well.
And that last part, I guarantee 90% of us knew just from watching image tearing.
I'm also sitting here wondering how an image can be programmed to sync up to a cycle rate, or refresh rate, or a frame render buffer. Wouldn't that mean video cards would have to be able to adjust the textures pending your frames per second, which meant it had to do more work, only to decrease your performance? And if the video card had to re-render the entire area on top of the original running render, wouldn't that require at least a second processor, if not another video card, and an engine that could handle running multiple working renders of an area? And where would this all happen, in magic land? And, what does the monitor have to do with textures, other than provide a means to SEE them?
Sorry. I needed that.
That above statement is true... but the rest above it is false. the graphics card can push way more frames than your refresh rate, they are not directly tied together...
Refresh rate is measured in frequency (Hz) which translates into the number of times per second your monitor actually redraws the entire screen. Thus a refresh rate of 60Hz means that your monitor will actually redraw the entire screen contents 60 consecutive times during a single second; 85Hz is 85 times, and so forth. This is fairly straightforward, but remember, this is how fast your monitor is refreshing the image on the screen with the electron beam, not how many FPS your system is actually producing or displaying.
Unlike a traditional CRT monitor, an LCD monitor does not have an electron gun or a tube with phosphors. It is made up of an array of liquid crystals placed between two pieces of polarized glass. Light is then sent from the back of the glass, and the shape of the crystals are controlled in such a way as to alter the light which passes through this glass and comes out through the screen. As such, an LCD screen does not have to refresh the entire screen constantly like a CRT monitor does just to maintain an image. Whenever an image alters on an LCD screen, a command is sent to the relevant liquid crystals in the array to change shape as required.
However just like a CRT is physically restricted by how fast the electron gun can redraw the screen each second, an LCD has a physical limitation of its own: the time taken for individual liquid crystals to twist and untwist in response to any changing images it is fed. This Response Time effectively measures how quickly the on screen image can be fully 'refreshed' (minus flickering of course) with a new image. Response time is correctly measured as the total amount of time taken for a pixel on an LCD screen to go from full black to full white and then back again to full black, measured in milliseconds (ms).
As a general rule, LCD monitors require a total response time of around 25ms or less to be remotely considered suitable for gaming and to prevent very noticeable ghosting. However to be truly suited for gaming, especially fast gaming, I would recommend a response time of at least 16ms and below, with 8ms or lower virtually guaranteeing no problems in any type of game. Again this is partially subjective; it will vary from person to person as to the exact threshold at which ghosting is visible to their eyes. Some say they can see ghosting at 16ms response time, some say they can't.
In all a LCD can display many FPS but is really not showing that entire frame because we are limited by 2 things...
1. Connection Limitations: A single DVI digital connection is like an Internet connection, it has limited bandwidth for digital graphics data; not enough to allow higher than 60Hz refresh rate at full 24bpp Color Depth for all resolutions, so typically all resolutions on LCD monitors using DVI are capped at 60Hz. Some LCD monitors using DVI do allow higher refresh rates, though the absolute maximum possible is 85Hz at 1280x1024. If you use a VGA analog connector instead, you can often select a refresh rate higher than 60Hz on an LCD, though again nowhere near the theoretical refresh rate limit based on your response time, partly because of the reason below.
2. Monitor Limitations: LCD manufacturers want to ensure that their monitors function satisfactorily in all situations, particularly since they often overstate response times. So typically they set the maximum supported refresh rates on their monitors such that they are relatively conservative and can meet the challenge of refreshing the entire screen as often as required in any situation without any ghosting. Furthermore, setting too high a refresh rate on an LCD, even if it's available, can actually result in problems in certain games and applications due to timing issues. So for reliability and compatibility purposes, LCD refresh rates are not as high as they could theoretically be.
As you can see, there are a few factors involved in why your LCD monitor may not provide a refresh rate as high as you might expect given its response time. The underlying reason however is that current graphics software and hardware is designed around compatibility with CRT monitors, and as such, LCD monitors are limited in some respects by having to emulate the same process.
I thank my buddy Koroush Ghazi for most of the info above...
Which seems to be exactly what I said.
Whatever your FPS is you can not see more frames than your refresh rate.
Your Avatar is too big.
All I require is a honkin' big monitor, and a big purty picture that don't make funneh effects and go all funkeh on meh.
That's thuh werd frum uhs hur in Tecksus. Ya hurd?
Corey