Vista 64 Ultimate learning pains
OK. One of my friends has the exact same hardware as I do. He's letting me suffer through the Vista upgrade experience so he knows what to avoid. Here's the fun I've had so far.
MSI K9A Platinum Motherboard. Says it supports 8GB of RAM, but was only kidding about letting you use it. BIOS version 1.6 added support to actually use more than 2GB and support for the AM2 6000+. Most soft reboots result in the motherboard controller thinking it has no arrays defined. A reset fixes that. Also, until I have the install stable, it is entirely possible the machine will simply power off.
Went to install Vista 64 Ultimate, installer tells me it can't find a partition to install on. So after Wiping out the partition a few times, I discover that Vista 64 Ultimate does not like the mobo controller in Native IDE mode. It will read them in Legacy IDE mode. Legacy IDE mode gave me errors on the other SATA drives connected. These were fake errors though. So I reinstall XP pro, then Upgrade to Vista finally.
Vista then decides to automatically reboot after login because I dared to hook up the other SATA drives again. So I scrap the install and set the controller to RAID mode. I stripe the 2 36GB raptors together and leave the other 2 SATA HD's alone. My DVD is external. I yank the floppy drive out of my wife's computer since I don't have one in my system. Feed the driver to XP Pro, and the install completes. I had to call MS to activate XP Pro cuz I'm a dirtly little bought a legitimate copy pirating sob.
I then am able to upgrade to Vista 64 Ultimate yet again. I've memorized the code at this point. Install goes good. Had to call MS to get permission to activate cuz I have cooties and I'm the diet coke of evil.
Then I got to battle crashing which turned out to be because I didn't have the cache set high enough in Azureus for the torrents I share out.
Then after I install a new processor, I find out the OS is corrupted!
MSI K9A Platinum Motherboard. Says it supports 8GB of RAM, but was only kidding about letting you use it. BIOS version 1.6 added support to actually use more than 2GB and support for the AM2 6000+. Most soft reboots result in the motherboard controller thinking it has no arrays defined. A reset fixes that. Also, until I have the install stable, it is entirely possible the machine will simply power off.
Went to install Vista 64 Ultimate, installer tells me it can't find a partition to install on. So after Wiping out the partition a few times, I discover that Vista 64 Ultimate does not like the mobo controller in Native IDE mode. It will read them in Legacy IDE mode. Legacy IDE mode gave me errors on the other SATA drives connected. These were fake errors though. So I reinstall XP pro, then Upgrade to Vista finally.
Vista then decides to automatically reboot after login because I dared to hook up the other SATA drives again. So I scrap the install and set the controller to RAID mode. I stripe the 2 36GB raptors together and leave the other 2 SATA HD's alone. My DVD is external. I yank the floppy drive out of my wife's computer since I don't have one in my system. Feed the driver to XP Pro, and the install completes. I had to call MS to activate XP Pro cuz I'm a dirtly little bought a legitimate copy pirating sob.
I then am able to upgrade to Vista 64 Ultimate yet again. I've memorized the code at this point. Install goes good. Had to call MS to get permission to activate cuz I have cooties and I'm the diet coke of evil.
Then I got to battle crashing which turned out to be because I didn't have the cache set high enough in Azureus for the torrents I share out.
Then after I install a new processor, I find out the OS is corrupted!
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My system may be in deep doodoo it seems. It just keeps getting worse. Any attempt to install the ATI driver in Vista 64 ultimate now result in an immediate power off of the system. I have to unplug the power supply and wait til I hear a bleep. Then I can power it back on.
I had it working in Vista 64 for 2 weeks at one point. It wasn't until I changed from the 4600+ to the 6000+ that the problems started, but XP Pro works just fine with the proc. I had one install today of Vista 64 that was ok til I tried higher than a 60 Hz refresh rate.
Now after I have XP Pro format and copy files, the next reboot just goes black screen and does nothing.
The quick format is odd though. It appears to pause at 20 percent, but then after a few minutes goes past and copies files.
Are you doing a XP Pro to Vista upgrade? If so, have you tried this trick?
I think the quick format issue is normal (20% and suddenly done), but a few minutes sounds a bit much, but I guess it depends on the size of the partition.
Hopefully this is the start of me having a return to stability in Vista. I'm creating a restore point as soon as I get to a good point.
Dang it all, it crapped out again. Restoring to a previous point and then trying to install the sound drivers was an automatic power off at boot up. The sound drivers were working fine until I updated the RAID driver and it crapped on reboot. I just don't have the luck I used to with upgrades.
I would start with the basic stuff to try to eliminate some of the unknowns of the equation, first I would clear CMOS (if you know how to set it up properly again), then test each major component in this order:
1. Memtest86+ (run at least one full pass, should take less than an hour)
2. Mprime (Prime95), tests CPU and RAM (run for at least 30min)
3. Western Digital Diagnostics (test one hdd at a time)
This bootcd is mainly for DFI motherboard BIOS flashing, but it also has all the three tools mentioned above on a single disc (under Hard Drive Tools and System Tools). I haven't tried it myself though.
Then I would focus on PSU (check volts under load, or alternatively try a different PSU if you don't have a digital multimeter) and motherboard (BIOS, chipset cooling), and try to eliminate any component that isn't needed for a basic setup...remove sound card, disable integrated stuff on the motherboard in BIOS (Firewire, Sound, unused nics, parallel and serial ports and so on). Then reinstall the OS (clean install, no upgrade), and test again using the multicore windows version of Prime95 (select torture test under options) and MemTestForWin (you might have to run several instances to cover your amount of ram). If everything seems fine at this point, I would install all the vista updates. Then I would start to install drivers, but try to install as few as possible (and of course make sure you are running the latest available versions). Vista might have decent chipset and sata drivers built in, and you might get away with only gpu and sound drivers. Reboot and test a few times before installing the next driver. Check your Event Viewer for any errors. If you find windows defender alerts in the event viewer, you might get around it by reinstalling the software/driver from the true administrator account. You also might want to disable automatic restart to read blue screen messages.
Just a few ideas since I really don't know the detailed specs of your system, or what you have tried at this point.
AMD AM2 6000+ , previously a 4600+
Mushkin 4-4-4-12 4GB (2x2GB) DDR2 800 at 2.0 volts
also have Corsair XMS2 5-5-5-18 2GB (2x1)
2 36GB WD Raptors
1 150GB WD Raptor
1 250GB SATAII MAxtor
external dual layer DVD drive
ATI X1900 Crossfire and X1900XT
At this point I believe the psu is failing. When it suddenly powers off, I have to unplug it and wait til I hear that bleep. (10 seconds) Then I can plug it back in and turn the computer on again. This behavior is not something motherboards do. If it was a mobo component heat issue, it would have to cool off first.
This computer was running fine in Vista 64 ultimate for a few weeks with the Mushkin memory. Played Halo 2 and Lost Planet for hours without issue. The problem started before the processor switch.
What brand and wattage PSU do you got? And what happens if you don't unplug and just start the system? (nothing or fans spin up but black screen/no post?)
It's an Enermax 650. It predates SLI support. I blow it out on a regular basis. I just picked up a BFG 650 to test. If it still happens I'm lookin at the mobo.
The rails in the BIOS all look good. None of them waver or dip under the 3.3, 5.0, or 12.0. They are all slightly over those values. In could be a heat sensor or circuit that is failing causing the protective shutdown when it's actually working fine.
The power supply was definately going bad though and was the cause of the sudden power offs. When I took it out I could see a tall rectangular white object with scorch marks up the side of it. Something was definately goin wrong in there and I have looked inside that psu before.
I'm reinstalling Vista right now with a replacement 650 watt psu that is rated 20A on the 12v rails. The enermax 650 I took out was only rated 18A. The install I had on there was shutting off as soon as it attempted to login to Vista. After replacing the psu, it just locked up after the desktop. So I'm doing a fresh clean install right now to check things out.
Just your CPU and GPUs probably pulls closer to 325Watts (CPU 125W, GPU's 100W each) alone at full load, that's close to 30Amps from the 12V rails. And you have other components using the 12V rails too.
If you still have problems, I would try running only one x1900xt. Maybe Crossfire support in Vista64 is a bit flaky still? And you will reduce the power load quite a bit too.
It's some sort of weird driver problem now. If I install Vista 64 now, after I add the video drivers and audio drivers, it just goes blank on boot up. AFter I finish my XP Pro install, I'll add another drive and test different driver order in Vista to see if I can figure out which one is the culprit. These are all the same drivers used for those two weeks it all worked so well. The only difference besides the damaged PSU and failing HD, is the presence of the 6000+ in this mobo. Before it was a 4600+.
There are absolutely zero problems in XP Pro. I'm currently letting it cycle 3DMark06 in crossfire mode.
I did let the memtest run over night. I'll run prime95 after this.
I did a serch for the 1.6 BIOS you mentioned, and I couldn't find it on the official MSI site, only at some french site. And the change log only mentioned support for 4GB RAM in WinXP Pro 64bit, which seems a bit odd. But then again, you say vista64 worked for you before
On my Intel 965 based system I only need to flip one setting in BIOS to enable support for 4GB in Vista64. It's a setting named "Memory Remapping Feature". And if I remember correctly, disabling the feature gives me ~3GB in XP 32b, and enabling it gives me only 2GB in XP 32b, but I get the full 4GB in Vista64.
I managed to crash XP Pro though. I had to remove the Creative X-Fi and use the onboard sound to not crash while playing videos.
I've been running the [EMAIL="folding@home"]folding@home[/EMAIL] SMP core. At about 40% it abandoned the first WU. Been fine since.
MSI's corecenter frequently reports the wrong FSB. It will show 200, 451, 520, 451, 200, 520, etc... The system is stable and benchmarks ok, but where is it getting those bad readings from?
Memtest+ 1.70 -> tests RAM (but errors here can mean problems with RAM timings, Vdimm and even chipset, it doesn't have to be bad RAM)
Prime95 Torture Tests -> Small FFT's tests mostly CPU/CPU Cache, while Blend also tests RAM to a degree.
I'm thinking the failing psu might have done some damage to the motherboard. I've noticed that it has become sensitive to what voltages I set the cpu,northbridge, and HT to. Either that or I just need to break down and put the 4600+ back in to see if the behavior stays. I could have sworn though that the shutting off suddenly thing started before the 6000+ went in.
I'll give it some more memtest and prime95 torture tonight.
Since you haven't reported back on the memtest and prime95 results, I presume you haven't ran those(?). It's impossible to troubleshoot a computer when nothing is known about the status of the core components
The Mushkin 4GB kit is 2.0 volts. I tried upping the northbridge voltage well inside the safe range to see if it was the issue. It's a 2x2GB kit, so only 2 of the four banks are filled.
I played some Two Worlds last night. Cranked the settings all the way up. XP Pro does not experience these issues. I can't tighten the memory timings though. XP PRO uses 3.4GB of it, but causes BSOD's if I use the tighter timings. 5-5-5-18 and it's running like a champ in XP. I have to switch back to the 2GB kit to use the Creative X-Fi in XP though. Their drivers $%^ themselves if they load above the 2GB area.
I'll torture test the Corsair XMS 2GB DDR2 800 kit also.
I've reloaded Vista 64 with the controller in RAID mode. I'm setting it up to torture test it with Prime95 overnight. I'll post the results in the morning.
Night, and thanks for you help thus far.
I did update my system to 1.61 Beta BIOS. Not entirely sure what the BIOS changed, but I do know it was related to memory compatibility.
Have you sorted out the driver problems? You have mentioned problems with the RAID, Sound and also GPU drivers. Do you still have issues with all of them? Or do you have one singled out?
I'm running the X-Fi drivers (really old X-Fi Platinum) in Vista64 with no problems, and I previously ran it in XP Pro with 4GB RAM with no issues (3GB shown in XP, different chipsets though). Same goes for the Realtek HD drivers. But Creative does have a rather crappy history with different chipsets. If the X-Fi turns out to be the problem, you might want to try changing a few BIOS settings. I looked at the manual for your board, and I suggest switching one or more of the following settings: Auto Disable PCI Clock (try both settings), Spread Spectrum (the manual suggests disabling this to improve stability) and PCI Latency Timer (try 32). Does the new BIOS (1.6) have new settings related to the 4GB support?
Some of the problems you describes seems to point to memory addressing, since you also had this problem in XP with more than 2GB RAM. I find it hard to believe it’s a driver problem, as the drivers should be built very different between XP 32bit and Vista64. It might be a BIOS/chipset related problem (probably a combination of BIOS/chipset and add in components). And since everything works in XP w/2GB, it probably isn’t a faulty component (hardware wise) either.
As for what to do next, I would start out with a very basic system, just to see if it’s possible at all to make Vista run properly. Remove and disable all the stuff that isn’t needed to get Vista up and running. You probably don’t need sound, crossfire, serial port, dual nics, firewire and all that stuff for that. Then, if stable, add/enable one and one component (w/drivers) to establish when the problems start.
Spread spectrum is always disabled. Disabling the PCI clock results in a no post, and I haven't tried changing the timer. There are zero options in the BIOS relating to 4GB support.
The problem occured with the failing PSU and then all the fun started.
This arrives tomorrow.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16817703009
The BFG 650 was just to test. It goes back to Best Buy. Now I'm just trying to figure out possible driver issues. Here is an example of the order of operations:
1: Base install of Vista 64 Ultimate
2: Vista downloads and installs patches and updates a few system drivers on its own, reboot
3: Install chipset drivers and reboot
4: Install video drivers and reboot
5: Enable crossfire and reboot
6: Install sound drivers and reboot
7: Boots up and powers off instead of loading desktop, unplug psu and wait, plug it back in, turn system back on
Sometime step 7 occured before step 5 or 6. Once step 7 occurs, subsequent boot up attempts result in a blank screen instead of powering off. Step 7 sounds like a STOP error, but I don't even get a blue screen. I was also unable to find any logs or clues in safe mode.
The only order I haven't tried is enabling crossfire last. Also ATITool did bad things to my system in XP. Possibly because the PSU was ailing.
http://www.ocztechnologyforum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=27524
How does Vista work with realtek onboard sound? (removing X-Fi), considering this also was a problem and solution for 4gb in XP. And how does vista work with only 2GB? The devil is in the details here (or the patch RyderOCZ linked to)
I still have the problem where everytime I do a soft reboot the RAID controller says it has no arrays. Reset solves it though, then it boots fine.
I'm about to enable crossfire and reboot. After that I'll check out how Vista does with onboard audio in Lost Planet if my luck holds. I'm writing down which drivers I've added/updated and in what order.