Video Editing Computer

reelbigfishreelbigfish Boston, MA Member
edited November 2003 in Hardware
Hey guys, I have to make a video editing computer. It will be used to import TV shows from a camera, edit them for TV using video toaster, and burn them to DVD. The budget is around $3200. Here are my ideas so far, let me know what you think:

System 1

Processor: Opteron 244 (1.8Ghz)x2 $928
Motherboard: Tyan Thunder K8W $449
Memory: Crucial PC2700ECCx2 $640
Harddrive 1: WD1600JD $140
Harddrive 2: WD1600JD $140
Harddrive 3: WD1600JD $140
Harddrive 4: WD1600JD $140
DVD+/-R: NEC 1300 $100
Case: Antec 4U22 $196
Tape Drive: Seagate IDE 20GB $163
Video Card: ATI FireGL T2 $331
Total $3,367

System 2

Processor : Athlon FX51 (2.2Ghz) $733
Motherboard Tyan Tiger K8W $215
Memory: Crucial PC2700ECCx2 $640
Harddrive 1 WD2000JD $190
Harddrive 2 WD2000JD $190
Harddrive 3 WD2000JD $190
Harddrive 4 WD2000JD $190
DVD+/-R: Plextor PX-708A $215
Case: Antec 4U22 $196
Tape Drive: Seagate IDE 20GB $163
Video Card: ATI FireGL T2 $331
Total $3,253


System 3

Processor: Xeon 2.8 Ghz(512K)x2 $678
Motherboard: Tyan S2668ANR $279
Memory: Crucial PC2100 ECCx2 $750
Harddrive 1: WD200JB $181
Harddrive 2: WD200JB $181
Harddrive 3: WD200JD $190
DVD+/-R: Plextor PX-708A $215
Case: Antec 4U22 $196
Tape Drive Seagate IDE 40GB $292
Video Card ATI FireGL T2 $331
Total $3,293


I'm doubting a single intel processor would perform well enough. The OS will be either Windows XP Professional or the 64bit edition on the AMD boxes. Let me know what you guus think. Also, the DVD drive must be multi-format and be able to write CD's. 600GB of disk space is required and it must be in a rackmount case. Thanks!

Comments

  • citrixmetacitrixmeta Montreal, Quebec Icrontian
    edited November 2003
    do you really need the ATI FireGL T2 $331 ?

    i mean, correct me if im wrong, wouldn't a radeon9500/9700/9800 do fine?


    System 1 all the way :D
  • reelbigfishreelbigfish Boston, MA Member
    edited November 2003
    I should also add the requirements for VT:

    CPU:

    Pentium 4, Pentium 4 XEON, or higher*
    *CPU Speed of 2.4GHZ or higher recommended for both single and dual processor setups.

    Chipsets:

    Intel 845*
    * Boards with built in graphics cards will not work for 845 series
    Intel 850
    Intel 860
    Intel 865
    Intel 875
    Intel 7205
    Intel 7505

    Software required to be installed on the VT[3] machine:

    For Windows 2000:

    Service pack 3
    Windows Media Player 9 or higher
    Windows Media Encoder 9 or higher for streaming
    Direct X 9.0 or higher
    Latest graphics card drivers
    For Windows XP Professional:

    Service pack 1
    Windows Media Player 9 or higher
    Windows Media Encoder 9 or higher for streaming
    Direct X 9b
    Latest graphics card drivers
    Additional Hardware:

    For hard drives and additional cards, the following is recommended:

    Video Stripe Set: Four 10,000 RPM Ultra 160 or 320 SCSI hard drives or three 15,000 RPM Ultra 160 or 320 hard drives.

    SCSI Controller for Video Stripe Set: Adaptec 29160, 39160, or 39320 Ultra 160 or 320 SCSI cards

    DV Capture and Switching: any IEEE1394 Firewire card
  • Al_CapownAl_Capown Indiana
    edited November 2003
    Do athlon FX's require registered pc3200? Someone refresh my memory.
  • citrixmetacitrixmeta Montreal, Quebec Icrontian
    edited November 2003
    get it? memory!! get it?!?!

    im sorry, :(


    yes they do.
  • MediaManMediaMan Powered by loose parts.
    edited November 2003
    Okay...this is right up my alley. Here's a bit of food for thought for you.


    Dual processors are beneficial when it comes to pure software driven effects such as dissolves, page turns etc. When you get a video editing card such as the Matrox RTX100 Ultra this is handled in real time by the hardware on the digitizing card.

    This takes the load off a dual processor system...essentially making the 2nd processor a bit useless.

    RAID and perferably SCSI RAID is a must for the video media files. This is independant of the Program/OS drive.

    I have found the tape backup equally as useless for video editing backup purposes. That's if you use a system with timecode. You see...only the project needs to be burnt to DVD for archival purposes if you retain the original shoot tapes. The footage or sections of the footage you need can be redigitized if your editing software has that capability. If it doesn't stick with the tape backup to archive project and media folders so you can clean off the system.

    The ATI FIREGL is a workstation card designed for 3D. Video editing is 2D and a heavy 3D and expensive video card like the FIREGL will do nothing for video editing. Not a thing. We have crappy old 8 MB Rage Pro video cards driving the non linear editing suite. ALL the work is done by the third party editing card...which is totally different from the video card.

    The Matrox P750 would be great for this as it can be dual DVI and is more than you'll need as this is an edit workstation and not a heavy 3D station.

    The FireGL128 is around $300 USD while the P750 is around $230 USD.

    The matrox RTX10 sells for about a grand but includes full version of Premiere. The RTX100 sells for about 1700 USD and includes a lot more.

    Check for yourself here.

    http://shopmatrox.com/usa/products/categories.asp?CategoryID=69&Column=2


    When it comes to video editing you want hardware acceleration and ordinary video cards don't supply that. A single processor AMD 3200+ or 3000+ would work just as well, if not better, and some of the money saved would offset the cost of the matrox solutions. I'm not pushing Matrox...just telling you what I know from my experience with the big edit suites.

    Hope this helps.
  • ThraxThrax 🐌 Austin, TX Icrontian
    edited November 2003
    Si. Registered 2100/2700/3200.
  • a2jfreaka2jfreak Houston, TX Member
    edited November 2003
    Too bad you can't get PC3200 sticks in 1GB densities for the AMD systems.
  • reelbigfishreelbigfish Boston, MA Member
    edited November 2003
    Ok, that is definitly food for thought, but I like the idea of 64bit and dual Opteron so the system will be useful for quite some time. It is probably just Intel propaganda, but will it matter that it is optimzed for Xeons? I plan on have 4 harddrives striped. Will it matter than much if they are SATA 150 7200RPMs vs SATA 150 10,000RPMs vs 10,000 SCSI? The tyan board has 4 SATA ports for 2 RAID Arrays.
  • a2jfreaka2jfreak Houston, TX Member
    edited November 2003
    likes :D

    <iframe src="http://shopmatrox.com/usa/products/datasheet.asp?ID=421&quot; width="600" height="350" scrolling="auto">
    See: http://shopmatrox.com/usa/products/datasheet.asp?ID=421
    </iframe>
  • MediaManMediaMan Powered by loose parts.
    edited November 2003
    4 x 10 k SCSI cost a lot.

    BUT buy one of these if you must have SCSI. Check out www.medea.com.

    The one thing you are not doing is professional broadcast work where you are churning through as big or as many projects as I am. I would suggest 4 x SATA 150 but stripe only two. If you lose one stripe you aren't hooping yourself entirely. (And that data too)

    SCSI would be overkill.

    You are never going to future proof yourself. A PC has average 3 year lifespan. Go for the good performance vs. good cost now cause you'll just want to upgrade 3 years from now. (In other words...why buy big bucks best now)

    10k will definitely be better for pulling the video off the raids in playback.

    (Again...I say go 3rd party editing card. :) )
  • ketoketo Occupied. Or is it preoccupied? Icrontian
    edited November 2003
    reelbigfish had this to say
    Will it matter than much if they are SATA 150 7200RPMs vs SATA 150 10,000RPMs vs 10,000 SCSI? The tyan board has 4 SATA ports for 2 RAID Arrays.

    10k SATA's ? Aren't the only ones Raptors, which are way to small for your needs?
  • celchocelcho Tallahassee, FL Member
    edited November 2003
    they have a 73 now, but that is pretty small

    seems like a whole bunch of wd 250 gig se's would be pretty sweet.

    raid 0+1 or something if you want.
  • MediaManMediaMan Powered by loose parts.
    edited November 2003
    Listen to MM. MM wise rabbit.

    Too small a bucket...too little to pee into....too big a bucket...big mess if it leaks. A bucket...no matter the size always fills up.

    When editing 1/2 hour programs NTSC with lots of footage they chew up about 30-50 GB depending on CODEC used. 4 x 250 GB would be nice but again....you are paying top dollar. Why not run 4 x 120 which would be less but a ton of room. For the moment if you are needing more then you are HD.


    I'm pretty anal in the edit suite and I like to stay on top of archiving. I absolutely hate people who's solution to archiving is to just get more hard drive space. Get it in...get it done...get it off the system.
  • Omega65Omega65 Philadelphia, Pa
    edited November 2003
    Gee - look what I found :)

    Matrox RT.X10 Xtra : A beginner's guide to successful non-linear editing

    So you want to edit home video.

    Many an amateur videographer is lured by the promise of editing "home movies" on the PC only to find out it is a frustratingly slow process or the quality is marginally better than grainy web-based video. Often home video camera owners have visions of grandeur thinking they'll create the next installment of War and Peace with their $49.95 video editing software. They quickly reach the conclusion that video editing software is slow and cumbersome and thus, in a lot of cases, never touched again.

    Matrox has a solution with the RT.X10 Xtra[b/]. Get the inside information right from a professional in broadcast video. Most of us make the mistake of spending thousands on a camera, editing software and equipment without knowing how to properly use it. There art of video editing takes time to learn and perfect but there are important steps and information you should know when it comes to building and using a PC for video editing. Read on to learn how to make your projects enjoyable for both you and your audience.
  • reelbigfishreelbigfish Boston, MA Member
    edited November 2003
    That is a lot of good info guys. Here is what I have concluded from the info above.

    Opteron System
    Processor AMD Opteron 242 (1.6Ghz)x2 $668
    Motherboard:Tyan Thunder K8WS2885 $444
    Memory: PC2700 Reg ECC 1GBx2 $642
    Harddrive 0: WD2500JB $228
    Harddrive 1: WD1600JD $140
    Harddrive 2: WD1600JD $140
    Harddrive 3: WD1600JD $140
    Harddrive 4: WD1600JD $140
    DVD+/-R: NEC 1300A $100
    Case: Antec 4U22 $196
    Tape Drive: Seagate IDE 20GB $163
    Video Card: Matrox P650 $159
    Editing Card: VT[3] ????
    Total $3,160

    Xeon System
    Processor: Xeon 2.8 Ghz(512K) $678
    Motherboard: SuperMicro X5DAL-TG2 $415
    Memory: PC2100Unbuff $752
    Harddrive 0: WD2500JB $228
    Harddrive 1: WD1600JD $140
    Harddrive 2: WD1600JD $140
    Harddrive 3: WD1600JD $140
    Harddrive 4: WD1600JD $140
    DVD+/-R: NEC 1300A $100
    Case: Antec 4U22 $196
    Tape Drive: Seagate IDE 20GB $163
    Video Card: Matrox P650 $159
    Editing Card: VT[3]
    Total $3,251

    That matrox card looks like it is a lot better than the Video toaster, as it does the same thing but comes with Premiere instead of whatever software comes with video toasrer, which after looking at thier website, I'm still not sure what it is. The tape drive is a good idea since the people at the studio are, well, not that smart and will probably forget to save thier stuff to DVD(I know I shoudn't be condesending, but the hard drives already wipe themselves and at least once a week someone forgets to back up thier work and then has to do it over.) If need be I can always bump the processors down to two Opteron 240's and it will still be good. Also, I forgot to ask, the people at the studio also want this box to stream video, which I adivsed againt since they will be editing on it, but they said thier demande is low, so it doesn't matter. Is streaming all processor related? If so, I think the Dual Opterons can handle it.
  • edcentricedcentric near Milwaukee, Wisconsin Icrontian
    edited November 2003
    I got to play some recently on a system, RTX10, Matrox 550, SATA raid drives, P42.4? (slowest with HT) and it was plenty of box for the job.
    Would be cheeper to build with AMD.
    If it was me: single AMD FX
    all of the memory the mobo will handle
    2x 120G drives for os and storage
    2x raptors for working
    RTX100
    P750
    DVD burner (or two)
  • MediaManMediaMan Powered by loose parts.
    edited November 2003
    Why are you going for such as MASSIVE drive for what I presume is the OS/Program drive. Just to say you can? Anyway....no harm intended.

    Really....you aren't going to need 250 GB for OS/Programs. Get an 80 GB drive and even that is overkill for size. OS/Program will take up 4 GB at most. The only other thing you should be using that drive is archiving stills, logos, graphic elements that you use on a regular basis and pull into projects. Even that should be backed up on a regular basis.

    Is there a specific reason you are going rackmount too? Is this going to be sitting in another room from the edit bay? You have to watch that cable run then...especially for the tape decks feeding the box.

    XEON's are workstation processors...the same as AMD MPs. Dual processors are ONLY going to benefit you if the software is SMP aware and in cases such as heavy rendering. Remember...editing software should be used to cut/dissolve a story. Flip over to a program such as AEFX to do the real fancy stuff.

    Dual MP's will be cheaper and the ASUS board will do nicely. But you need to get a SATA 150 64bit RAID card.

    Or the Opteron will do nicely too.


    The P650 doesn't support dual DFP and the P750 does. I suggest the P750. It has the NTSC out option for previewing with a TV monitor...rather handy in a non-linear edit suite. But check the Matrox site for more.


    1 GB of memory is enough. Go two GB if you feel like it.
  • reelbigfishreelbigfish Boston, MA Member
    edited November 2003
    Unfortunatly MM, as I think has happened to you, the people I'm building this for don't know about computers. I said, lets go with 4x120GB drives. The response, NONONO, we need the space to back up. I said, no you should back up to DVD, nonono, I want the space. Fine, you can have the space but it will cost you. I swear I've tried reasoning, I tried bargaining saying I would keep the extra cash, I tried throwing a temper tantrum, and no. We need over 600GB of space. As for processors, they want the best. I said they don't need the best, but they want it to "last". I said, it will need to be upgraded in 3 years, they said it will last longer with faster processors. At this point I gave up. It's not my problem they want to waste money. But of course when I know we need to spend $4000 on a new computer, it's not going to happen. I mean hell, I had the smoothwall firewall running on a 386. Guess what they did, bought a Duron to run it on. It's a $500box running a firewall that should cost less to run. I give up on them. I just can't wait to test it out. :D
  • MediaManMediaMan Powered by loose parts.
    edited November 2003
    In that case my friend.

    Go forth and spend like a drunken sailor. Go for the Opterons and dump the XEONs. 64 bit is the way to go. They are boneheads for data backup on a raid though. They want better stability then go 65-bit SCSI.

    Course...that'd be 4 grand in itself. :)
  • DexterDexter Vancouver, BC Canada
    edited November 2003
    reelbigfish had this to say
    Unfortunatly MM, as I think has happened to you, the people I'm building this for don't know about computers. I said, lets go with 4x120GB drives. The response, NONONO, we need the space to back up. I said, no you should back up to DVD, nonono, I want the space. Fine, you can have the space but it will cost you. I swear I've tried reasoning, I tried bargaining saying I would keep the extra cash, I tried throwing a temper tantrum, and no. We need over 600GB of space. As for processors, they want the best. I said they don't need the best, but they want it to "last". I said, it will need to be upgraded in 3 years, they said it will last longer with faster processors. At this point I gave up. It's not my problem they want to waste money.

    I hear you, reelbigfish...The same thing happens to me on a regular basis in my business. We sell professional MPEG video servers, either "off the shelf" or "custom" models. Many clients want the custom model, and they want it suped up with as much RAM and as fast a processor as is availble. We tell them, you don't need that much RAM / Processor, the multi-channel MPEG decoder circuit boards have on-board processing and memory buffers, they do the work themselves. Heck, you can run 4 channels of DVD quality MPEG on a 300 Mhz Celeron with 96 MB RAM! For a 16 channel server, 512 MB RAM, a 1.8 Ghz processor, and an IDE or SATA RAID will perfrom very, very well...but nooooo...the client "must" have 1024 MB RAM, a 3 Ghz processor, and SCSI RAID...because they read some old article somewhere that told them that this was good. I even took screenshots of the task manager showing CPU and RAM utilization on a lower-spec server, showing them that the system was basically asleep while pumping 16 channels of video....but they had it in their heads that they needed something, and there was no dissuading them...:shakehead

    So, okay, we type up a quote for the spec they want. We keep a consistent percentage markup on the components, so the higher priced a component is, the more profit we make off of it. And then the client balks at the price. We tell them, hey, you can save $X hundred by lowering the amount of RAM, or $Y hundred by moving to a lower-Mhz processor, or $Z hundred by replacing the SCSI components with IDE or SATA RAID and drives. Some of them actually see the light at that point, and go with the more cost-effective option. Others just have to have the newest, bestest, and fastest, and they pay up...but usually not before they try and work us down for a while. Sometimes we will move a couple of hundred just to get the deal...but they still end up paying much more than they need to if they would just listen to us. We've been doing this for a few years, we know what we are talking about. But the customer is always right, right? :thumbsup:

    Dexter...
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