i want to build a P4 system bad. Do you guys think its a good idea or save the money and wait for amd to drop or wait for the prescott. Isnt that suppost to use a 478 socket anyways? so i could build one now and then buy a prescott later.
Intel doesn't know if they can make Prescott CPU's for Socket 478. Hence, I wouldn't exactly be purchasing a system to upgrade, only to find out that your upgrade path has been shredded at the knees.
Proper Prescott support will come with the new GrantsDale chipsets, BTX form factor, PCI Express Interconnect, PEG16x for Graphics and the LGA776 connection socket.
What does Prescott offer over the current P4? Double the cache & SSE3/PNI.
There is no guarantee Prescott will be coming on S478 and (*opinion*) I have serious doubts it will. Even if it does, very few S478 motherboards are going to be able to handle the voltage regulation requirements.
Having said that, overclocking a 2.4/2.6 is fun and fast, provided you have the right mobo and memory. They've come down a TON in price in the past 3-4 months. While you can still build a fast AMD system cheaper, it's not quite *as* fast and the price difference is not as dramatic as it was a short time ago. The main difference will be in the processor price, around $75 more, tho to go to a high end mobo is also about $100 more than, say, an NF7-S.
What kind of budget and what existing components will be used?
0
Straight_ManGeeky, in my own wayNaples, FLIcrontian
edited December 2003
Two things, if you want a P4 now the best bang for buck is the 2.66 GHz CPU, but if you are going to OC I would look at this combo(which you combine yourself, not as a kit from someone) and not the retail with heatsink--
OEM P4, 2.66 GHz
SLK-900U Heatsink (which is the Intel variant of the SLK-900A and can handle the 2.66 GHz CPU fine)
Ys-Tech NFD1281259B-2F Fan (has a voltage rheostat on a fairly long lead you can mount in a spare drive bay on a bay cover plate, and has a 3-wire with sense plugin for mobo, is 2 ball-bearings, and quieter than a Delta with a decent airflow volume and a 3 Watt load due to rheostat, which is easy to cut off and just join the two black leads cut shorter to drop power load if you do not mind it on full speed.) SVCompucycle has those fans, and had an entry on their website for the SLK-900U. Fans not cheap, but you do not need hyper-noise to get cooling enough to OC a reasonable amount, just a good 80 mm fan that is not pure flat bladed and is not pure axial. In fact, not using a hyper powerful fan lets the air column be bent with less turbulence and thus sucked out of case by even faster and stronger high-rear case exhaust fans, so you are not forced to blow air into dead zone with a forced push down past HS airflow-- if you blow half of ari into dead zone, you will be trapping air near HDs and DVDs and CD\RWs and have a need for atop blowhole, but if you bend the airflow out back, no need for a top blowhole unless you burn a LOT of DVDs or CDs.
Jet engines move air, but for me they distract too much to concentrate on use of computer as tool, so I tend to use more traditional air cooling methods than some would say to use.
John.
---- Experienced IMHO below, take with grain or block of salt to suit, and double-check but I know what is said here is true.
For the new Prescott, expect you will want a BTX mobo supporting case and PSU also, and definitely at least a P4 rated PSU which is rated to the 4-5 GHz range instead of the 3 GHz range. so, if were me and HAD to have a P4, would NOT buy the 3 GHz P4 now, rather would buy the 2.66 P4 and use savings to save up for a Prescott in a year or two or 2.5 years after BIOS bugs and other things are fixed and the prices drop on Prescott, BTX cases, and Prescott supporting PSUs and Prescott supporting colling solutions that are very good.
IE (Da Cliff's Notes), let market support of BTX and Prescott catch up before moving, stick with an 800 FSB in mid to high 2 GHz range CPU if buying Intel now.
Why would you buy a 533 MHz FSB P4, especially the 2.66, which can't overclock worth beans? It's the old B1/C1 stepping, good for a maximum of 3.2 on extreme air cooling.
Plus, the 2.66 doesn't have Hyper Threading.
Plus, the 2.66, when running on a i865PE or i875P motherboard can't use DDR400. Instead, due to the Memory Controller Hub's timing limitations, it can only use DDR320 (not even DDR333). You wouldn't want to pair it with an i845 either, as the Single-Channel DDR333/266 would starve that poor CPU of data. How about the i850E and RDRAM? Unless you want to shell out mega $$$ for an out-of date, 2 year old chipset that uses expensive proprietary RAM, PC1066 RDRAM is not an option.
What about RIMM4200? 2 boards support it. 32-bit RIMM's are insanely expensive, but don't need to be installed in pairs. Still, it uses the old i850E MCH and ICH4 I/O Controller Hub, with ATA100. No RAID. No SATA. No Gigabit LAN. No Intel CSA. No AGP 8x. Should I go on?
Any way you look at it, the 533 MHz FSB P4's 2.66 and above really don't have a suitable platform for overclocking or balanced memory throughput/bandwidth delivery.
As for cooling the sucker, the stock Intel HSF is damned good and will keep that sucker cool up to 2.9 GHz. After that... it's anyone's game, as even Intel modified the stock Intel HSF that comes with the 2.8 & 3.06 533 FSB P4's to include a copper core with an aluminium surround.
Want a P4 right here, right now for overclocking? 2.4C, IC7 & 2x256 MB DDR466/DDR500, 400W PSU (not some crummy brand) and a Radeon 9500 Pro.
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Straight_ManGeeky, in my own wayNaples, FLIcrontian
edited December 2003
I would look for an 800 FSB Processor, have seen 2.66 at 800 FSB offered, and also the 2.8 GHz and 3 and 3+. you pay big for the 3 GHz, thta is the major point right now for me, and as someone who will be moving to Opteron and Prescott, I am saving for the move. With that fast a bse, who needs to OC much?? If OC is MAIN goal, agree, for a stable box with soem OC, no. Problem is details of OC vary by board and CPU and sometimes CPU batch, it is more an art that you cannot learn rote details that will always work. So, I go for more stability balance and sell skills in picking stable system sets with SOME room for OC but not always hyper-OCing. Its what box DOES, for me, not how fast it can do limited things.
right now my current box is:
A7N8X deluxe
2500 barton @ 2Ghz
pny 512 3500 (compusa has on there site)
slk-7 with 80mm tornado
9000 pro
lanboy with 350 watt that came with case
soon to have new case, 500 watt power supply and 9600xt
I was thinking Abit ic-7 and 2.6 or 2.8 p4 800fsb, i was gonna take ram and video card im getting and use for p4 system
Prescott may not arrive for Socket 478. If it does at all, I'm willing to bet cash that it will only be available up to 3.2 - 3.4 GHz. Why?
Like I've explained before, the power regulation onboard some Canterwood/SpringDale motherboards cannot provide the required stable voltage to the new CPU, hence rendering their upgrade path useless to the higher-frequency, and hence higher-voltage consuming CPU's. Current P4C's take 1.525 to 1.575V to run > 3.0 GHz.
To enjoy the P4 platform, an 800 MHz FSB chip is needed. Purchasing an obsolete 533 MHz FSB P4B and expecting performance similar to the Athlon XP is like asking a Chevette to run low 9's in the quarter mile at 145 MPH. It can't be done.
Bud had this to say right now my current box is:
A7N8X deluxe
2500 barton @ 2Ghz
pny 512 3500 (compusa has on there site)
slk-7 with 80mm tornado
9000 pro
lanboy with 350 watt that came with case
soon to have new case, 500 watt power supply and 9600xt
I was thinking Abit ic-7 and 2.6 or 2.8 p4 800fsb, i was gonna take ram and video card im getting and use for p4 system
Good choice of parts. Depending on the FPO/Batch of the CPU, as they are all stepping D1, the 2.6 should be good for 3.2-3.4 and the 2.8 should be good for 3.2-3.5 on extreme air cooling.
Again, your mileage may vary depending on cooling conditions and CPU FPO/Batch code.
Is your RAM 2x256 MB?
Honestly... I'd get an SLK-900, 92mm Tornado and overclock your current Barton 2500 to 2.2-2.4 GHz and forget the whole P4 thing. You've got a great rig there already, short of the video card, and with a little overclocking, you could get that to be an even better system...
my ram is only 1 stick but i cant decide if i want another stick of pny or buy a matched pair of corsair or kingston. My system isnt staying stable above 2 GHz so im not sure. when i push to 200fsb it crashes after about 1-2 hours. so im not sure I know its unlocked and suppost to have a good stepping (AXDA2500KV4D 9822457270001 AQXEA 0331RPMW) but not sure if it mobo or ram. cant figure out why its crashing so thats why im looking at a p4.
Yep.. that's the same stepping AXP 2500+ I've got and it does 2.3 on stock volts in an A7N8X...
Wierd.
Anyways... you'll want 2 modules of high-quality RAM, minimum DDR400 for use with the P4 system. Dual Channel is a necessity to get any type of performance out of the P4C's.
yea its wierd i had it at 2.2 for a while and was stable and cool the i went to 2.3 and was unstable so i backed of to 200x11 which is 2GHz 1.65v & 1.7v and wouldnt stay stable so im at 166x12@1.65v and now its stable and been folding for a day.
Comments
Proper Prescott support will come with the new GrantsDale chipsets, BTX form factor, PCI Express Interconnect, PEG16x for Graphics and the LGA776 connection socket.
What does Prescott offer over the current P4? Double the cache & SSE3/PNI.
What do you have for a PC now?
Having said that, overclocking a 2.4/2.6 is fun and fast, provided you have the right mobo and memory. They've come down a TON in price in the past 3-4 months. While you can still build a fast AMD system cheaper, it's not quite *as* fast and the price difference is not as dramatic as it was a short time ago. The main difference will be in the processor price, around $75 more, tho to go to a high end mobo is also about $100 more than, say, an NF7-S.
What kind of budget and what existing components will be used?
OEM P4, 2.66 GHz
SLK-900U Heatsink (which is the Intel variant of the SLK-900A and can handle the 2.66 GHz CPU fine)
Ys-Tech NFD1281259B-2F Fan (has a voltage rheostat on a fairly long lead you can mount in a spare drive bay on a bay cover plate, and has a 3-wire with sense plugin for mobo, is 2 ball-bearings, and quieter than a Delta with a decent airflow volume and a 3 Watt load due to rheostat, which is easy to cut off and just join the two black leads cut shorter to drop power load if you do not mind it on full speed.) SVCompucycle has those fans, and had an entry on their website for the SLK-900U. Fans not cheap, but you do not need hyper-noise to get cooling enough to OC a reasonable amount, just a good 80 mm fan that is not pure flat bladed and is not pure axial. In fact, not using a hyper powerful fan lets the air column be bent with less turbulence and thus sucked out of case by even faster and stronger high-rear case exhaust fans, so you are not forced to blow air into dead zone with a forced push down past HS airflow-- if you blow half of ari into dead zone, you will be trapping air near HDs and DVDs and CD\RWs and have a need for atop blowhole, but if you bend the airflow out back, no need for a top blowhole unless you burn a LOT of DVDs or CDs.
Jet engines move air, but for me they distract too much to concentrate on use of computer as tool, so I tend to use more traditional air cooling methods than some would say to use.
John.
---- Experienced IMHO below, take with grain or block of salt to suit, and double-check but I know what is said here is true.
For the new Prescott, expect you will want a BTX mobo supporting case and PSU also, and definitely at least a P4 rated PSU which is rated to the 4-5 GHz range instead of the 3 GHz range. so, if were me and HAD to have a P4, would NOT buy the 3 GHz P4 now, rather would buy the 2.66 P4 and use savings to save up for a Prescott in a year or two or 2.5 years after BIOS bugs and other things are fixed and the prices drop on Prescott, BTX cases, and Prescott supporting PSUs and Prescott supporting colling solutions that are very good.
IE (Da Cliff's Notes), let market support of BTX and Prescott catch up before moving, stick with an 800 FSB in mid to high 2 GHz range CPU if buying Intel now.
Plus, the 2.66 doesn't have Hyper Threading.
Plus, the 2.66, when running on a i865PE or i875P motherboard can't use DDR400. Instead, due to the Memory Controller Hub's timing limitations, it can only use DDR320 (not even DDR333). You wouldn't want to pair it with an i845 either, as the Single-Channel DDR333/266 would starve that poor CPU of data. How about the i850E and RDRAM? Unless you want to shell out mega $$$ for an out-of date, 2 year old chipset that uses expensive proprietary RAM, PC1066 RDRAM is not an option.
What about RIMM4200? 2 boards support it. 32-bit RIMM's are insanely expensive, but don't need to be installed in pairs. Still, it uses the old i850E MCH and ICH4 I/O Controller Hub, with ATA100. No RAID. No SATA. No Gigabit LAN. No Intel CSA. No AGP 8x. Should I go on?
Any way you look at it, the 533 MHz FSB P4's 2.66 and above really don't have a suitable platform for overclocking or balanced memory throughput/bandwidth delivery.
As for cooling the sucker, the stock Intel HSF is damned good and will keep that sucker cool up to 2.9 GHz. After that... it's anyone's game, as even Intel modified the stock Intel HSF that comes with the 2.8 & 3.06 533 FSB P4's to include a copper core with an aluminium surround.
Want a P4 right here, right now for overclocking? 2.4C, IC7 & 2x256 MB DDR466/DDR500, 400W PSU (not some crummy brand) and a Radeon 9500 Pro.
John.
A7N8X deluxe
2500 barton @ 2Ghz
pny 512 3500 (compusa has on there site)
slk-7 with 80mm tornado
9000 pro
lanboy with 350 watt that came with case
soon to have new case, 500 watt power supply and 9600xt
I was thinking Abit ic-7 and 2.6 or 2.8 p4 800fsb, i was gonna take ram and video card im getting and use for p4 system
Like I've explained before, the power regulation onboard some Canterwood/SpringDale motherboards cannot provide the required stable voltage to the new CPU, hence rendering their upgrade path useless to the higher-frequency, and hence higher-voltage consuming CPU's. Current P4C's take 1.525 to 1.575V to run > 3.0 GHz.
To enjoy the P4 platform, an 800 MHz FSB chip is needed. Purchasing an obsolete 533 MHz FSB P4B and expecting performance similar to the Athlon XP is like asking a Chevette to run low 9's in the quarter mile at 145 MPH. It can't be done.
Good choice of parts. Depending on the FPO/Batch of the CPU, as they are all stepping D1, the 2.6 should be good for 3.2-3.4 and the 2.8 should be good for 3.2-3.5 on extreme air cooling.
Again, your mileage may vary depending on cooling conditions and CPU FPO/Batch code.
Is your RAM 2x256 MB?
Honestly... I'd get an SLK-900, 92mm Tornado and overclock your current Barton 2500 to 2.2-2.4 GHz and forget the whole P4 thing. You've got a great rig there already, short of the video card, and with a little overclocking, you could get that to be an even better system...
Wierd.
Anyways... you'll want 2 modules of high-quality RAM, minimum DDR400 for use with the P4 system. Dual Channel is a necessity to get any type of performance out of the P4C's.