Fireproof boxes for CD storage?

TimTim Southwest PA Icrontian
edited October 2004 in Hardware
I was thinking about getting a fireproof box at K-Mart to keep my CDs in if there's ever a fire here. I've got a lot of priceless and in some cases, irreplaceable videos backed up on CD's and in other places, like the 44 episodes of my webshow Online Video, as well as all 372 episodes of Computer Stew, the pilot movie plus all 3 seasons (so far) of the Trailer Park Boys tv show from Canada, and some other stuff.

The fireproof boxes say they can handle 1550 degree heat for 30 minutes. I was wondering which would get damaged first in a box like that - papers or CD's?

Comments

  • primesuspectprimesuspect Beepin n' Boopin Detroit, MI Icrontian
    edited December 2003
    They are pointless for optical media storage. The ambient temperature inside the boxes gets quite high - high enough to damage the sensitive dye layer of a typical CDR. Pressed (professional) metallic CDs/DVDs will last longer, and may survive a fire, but CDRs and burned DVDs will last mere minutes before the chemical layer changes color, permanently destroying the data.
  • GHoosdumGHoosdum Icrontian
    edited December 2003
    Tim,
    Your best bet if you really want to keep them is probably a safety deposit box at the bank, but they'll charge you monthly for that...
  • Straight_ManStraight_Man Geeky, in my own way Naples, FL Icrontian
    edited December 2003
    Well, a Sentry Fire Safe, big heavy one, was designed to protect paper so the writing was still visible and the paper uncharred, for an hour or so at about 1600 degrees, continuous exposure. For fire, you would do better with a HD mech storing the stuff in a fire safe, and that is what is done with government resaerch data other than backups at other government sites for core things. For CDs, off site is best, like an aunt or uncle having a copy set of the stuff in trust and not relying on that alone. If there is a fire, and I have time, the HD mechs in their swap trays will go with me (kill boxes, pull trays, run or break out a window screen with legs of computer chair or a retractable blade knife as the windows open enough for me to get out easily), and if not I recover from older backups. My offsite stuff is encrypted and compressed, and on portable media.

    John.
  • TimTim Southwest PA Icrontian
    edited December 2003
    Maybe a fireproof box inside a fireproof box. But that's getting expensive.

    I guess giving copies to someone else to hold is the best choice.

    But what if their place burns down?

    Can't have everything, I guess.

    Is it okay to store a set of CDs in a place that is not heated? Year round temperature range would be from about 10 below zero to around 100 degrees F. I have a storage place in a garage that is unlikely to burn, at least not much (cement walls and floor).

    And if that is okay, should they be allowed to settle at room temperature before being used again?
  • primesuspectprimesuspect Beepin n' Boopin Detroit, MI Icrontian
    edited December 2003
    No, that temperature range is not acceptable for CDRs or DVDrs. They will be destroyed in one year.

    Just put them in a dark, room temperature place for a few years until something better comes along. The estimated archival life for a CDr is something along the lines of 5-10 years before the dye starts to fade naturally. CDRs were never meant as an archival storage format.

    When some hot new storage tech comes along, migrate to it. In the meantime, check the CDs once a year or so, and make new copies while you're doing it.
  • Mt_GoatMt_Goat Head Cheezy Knob Pflugerville (north of Austin) Icrontian
    edited December 2003
    Just sore them in a cosmoline coated box with your guns in a n underground safe under the driveway. ;)
  • EnverexEnverex Worcester, UK Icrontian
    edited December 2003
    What about life of a CD/DVD-RW?
  • CaffeineMeCaffeineMe Cedar Rapids, IA
    edited December 2003
    What are you backing up? Are they priceless digital photos, financial records, or is it pr0n, saved games, MP3's, etc. While the latter may seem important, after something as huge as a fire that has destroyed your PC, they rapidly become irrelevant.

    Yahoo Briefcase (and other, similar services)will let you save 30MB free, darn near forever. Got more than 30MB, create a 2nd acct., Place your usernames and PW's on a piece of paper, lock that in your fireproof safe. These places are RAIDed and backed up better than your budget would ever allow. Have a look at that.
  • EnverexEnverex Worcester, UK Icrontian
    edited December 2003
    They can also terminate your account for whatever reason they feel like, or inactivity, normally without prior notice....

    How about using Flash media? Thats damn near invincible isn't it?
  • CaffeineMeCaffeineMe Cedar Rapids, IA
    edited December 2003
    I've had the same acct. at Yahoo for 2 + years now. No problems. Keep the acct. private, don't share a bunch of stuff from it, and it shouldn't ever be an issue. Yahoo actually offers a hell of a lot of services at NC. I would imagine that, for a few $$ a month, a pay service would be almost invincible. Of course, I have quite an imagination! :)
  • primesuspectprimesuspect Beepin n' Boopin Detroit, MI Icrontian
    edited December 2003
    Enverex:

    What I've said goes for any chemical based storage substrate, including CD/DVD-RW.

    Caffeine: I agree with Enverex... If the data is important, I would never trust it with a company that can do whatever they want with it at their whim. You just never know what will happen. I remember how many customers of mine got affected, BADLY, when media one decided to change all of their customer's email addresses to @comcast.net with like, a few days prior notice. Was there anything they could do about it? Nope.
  • Straight_ManStraight_Man Geeky, in my own way Naples, FL Icrontian
    edited December 2003
    Right, for laser to use reflection you need to have dark and lioght, and the chemical dye layer provides a lot of that. bumps in media cause thinner dye above bump, though DVDs can use micro-bumps or micro depressions similarly.

    One thing, 3M makes black watch media, and TDK and PNy have soemthing similar. These are all one-time disks but are heavy carbon for heat resistance. I would use them for critical data only, they are 4-5 times the cost each of normal CDs,but CD-RWs that are good can use them and later read from them.

    They use a heavy carbon content layer instead of more heat-volatile dye, and burners have to use a hyper hot burn to record as the media has to be flowing hot to get the havy carbon displaced enough by bumps to casue a difference in reflection enough to read later. They are used for longer term archive storage. Plextors can do this, many DVD burners can do this if very good software is used. Essentially, this is what is used for mastering also, metallic base plus carbon content in substrate for heat stability and to protect the (thicker than on most CDs) foil from melting and flowing flat again.

    John.
  • CaffeineMeCaffeineMe Cedar Rapids, IA
    edited December 2003
    primesuspect had this to say
    Enverex:

    What I've said goes for any chemical based storage substrate, including CD/DVD-RW.

    Caffeine: I agree with Enverex... If the data is important, I would never trust it with a company that can do whatever they want with it at their whim. You just never know what will happen. I remember how many customers of mine got affected, BADLY, when media one decided to change all of their customer's email addresses to @comcast.net with like, a few days prior notice. Was there anything they could do about it? Nope.

    Let's be honest tho...there are differing levels of "important data". There's disposable data (game files and the like), important data(tax records, financials), and irreplacable data (digital photos of your family). With some effort, the important data CAN be replaced, it's a question of effort, time spent, maybe dollars spent. It's inconvenient to replace this data, but it is possible. Irreplacable can never be reproduced.

    The BEST means of data backup is to create a system of fault tolerance. Back up to CD, spend the $100 and backup to an HD that is stored at the bank in the safe deposit box(access and replace the drive every 5 years or so, CYA!), and also keep copies of datas (CD and paper!) with a trusted friend/relative.

    This stuff is not difficult to do, but can consume some time, and maybe cost a few dollars. Redundancy is not free.
  • ShortyShorty Manchester, UK Icrontian
    edited December 2003
    Il vote for BlackWatch series tapes and CDs. We use them at work. They are damn expensive, but you get what you pay for when it comes to really good archive materials.
  • CammanCamman NEW! England Icrontian
    edited December 2003
    Ageek wrote:
    (kill boxes, pull trays, run or break out a window screen with legs of computer chair or a retractable blade knife as the windows open enough for me to get out easily)

    John.

    my day and knowledge of archival media is complete now, knowing your exact plan for exiting your house and rescuing your harddrives in the event of fire.
  • SAFnSCRSAFnSCR
    edited October 2004
    I purchased a fireproof safe, but mine was quite large. Actually it is more like a cabinet and doesn't even look like a fireproof safe. It is a fireproof media cabinet from Schwab Corp.

    I had been doing some research to store some financial documents and a few family heirlooms. I considered storing everything off site, but wanted the convenience of having everything at my home. After some serious research I decided on the fireproof media cabinet - it can hold all my media and still has room for lots more. I got it for nearly half off of the retail price from KL Security Enterprises http://www.klsecurity.com

    My suggestion is that if you have the money, buy your own fireproof safe. Secure, you know where everything is and you don't have to drive somewhere to get your media or what have you :)


    Straight_Man wrote:
    Well, a Sentry Fire Safe, big heavy one, was designed to protect paper so the writing was still visible and the paper uncharred, for an hour or so at about 1600 degrees, continuous exposure. For fire, you would do better with a HD mech storing the stuff in a fire safe, and that is what is done with government resaerch data other than backups at other government sites for core things. For CDs, off site is best, like an aunt or uncle having a copy set of the stuff in trust and not relying on that alone. If there is a fire, and I have time, the HD mechs in their swap trays will go with me (kill boxes, pull trays, run or break out a window screen with legs of computer chair or a retractable blade knife as the windows open enough for me to get out easily), and if not I recover from older backups. My offsite stuff is encrypted and compressed, and on portable media.

    John.
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