Dec. Update discussion: Demoman Nerf, Spy and Engie buff

Idiot_Slayer

SO can we discuss the most recent demo nerf? and the Engie and Spy buffs?
I'm loving the spy update, but I don't play the other two nearly as much. They seem to be nice small additions (and nerfs) that make the game a little more balanced, but overall it doesn't really stop demo spamming just stops them from loading down a point and never having to directly stop your progress.

primesuspect

Despite my status as a demo whore, I feel like the nerf does indeed help balance. Demos were slightly overpowered, in that stickies are like another teammate. They can be on a point when you're not.

One thing I would like to see is an indicator that someone is destroying your stickies, sort of like the engineer—when his buildings are being damaged, he knows. It would be nice if the demo knew his stickies were being destroyed.

QCH

primesuspect wrote:

Despite my status as a demo whore, I feel like the nerf does indeed help balance. Demos were slightly overpowered, in that stickies are like another teammate. They can be on a point when you're not.

One thing I would like to see is an indicator that someone is destroying your stickies, sort of like the engineer—when his buildings are being damaged, he knows. It would be nice if the demo knew his stickies were being destroyed.

THAT would be cool.... lose one or two, blow the rest and hope for the best.

Snarkasm

Or in somebody like Brian's case, throw a couple on the final point on an offense/defense map and get an early warning system that somebody's snuck past and trying to take it.

I just KNOW that's what you'll do with them, you sneaky, sneaky man.

CB

You do get an indicator. It's not obvious, but it is part of your HUD. The display that shows how many stickies you have active goes down when someone destroys some.

Snarkasm

CB makes a good point. I'd forgotten about that guy.

primesuspect

I have not noticed that yet. Wow.

Koreish

Since they just gave the Engie upgradable building I wonder what his class pack will bring him. Do you think his buildings or his weapons will change?

Snarkasm

Maybe he'll be able to upgrade more to get a longer sensing range, or maybe a sentry that shoots nukes, but only slowly.

Nukes would be swt.

QCH

I thought a Shield Gun would be cool.... Similar to the Pyro's blast. Keep larger objects from getting past it... use it to block doorways.

CB

I think the coolest thing they could do for the engineer is branching upgrades.

Snarkasm

^ Elaborate.

CB

Hrmm... For example, you build a level one sentry, and proceed to pound metal into it. When it hits 200, you are quickly asked to press 1, 2, 3, or 4.

1 might give the sentry increased range, 2 might give it more fire-power, 3 might give it faster response time, and 4 might give it more hitpoints.

After two upgrades, your sequence of choices could create a sentry which is one of sixteen possible designs, and the enemy doesn't know which one it is before they encounter it.

You upgrade a level one dispenser, and 1 might give it increased range, 2 might give it faster recharge, 3 might give it faster output, and 4 might, again, give more hitpoints.

Making the right decisions with the dispenser could seriously help your team in some situations.

The same could be done for tele, but I'm having trouble thinking of what kind of options you could give them.

Snarkasm

Whoa, intense. I like it.

TiberiusLazarus

CB wrote:

Hrmm... For example, you build a level one sentry, and proceed to pound metal into it. When it hits 200, you are quickly asked to press 1, 2, 3, or 4.

1 might give the sentry increased range, 2 might give it more fire-power, 3 might give it faster response time, and 4 might give it more hitpoints.

After two upgrades, your sequence of choices could create a sentry which is one of sixteen possible designs, and the enemy doesn't know which one it is before they encounter it.

You upgrade a level one dispenser, and 1 might give it increased range, 2 might give it faster recharge, 3 might give it faster output, and 4 might, again, give more hitpoints.

Making the right decisions with the dispenser could seriously help your team in some situations.

The same could be done for tele, but I'm having trouble thinking of what kind of options you could give them.

I like this. Adds a little complexity to the general sit and build. You need to know how the sentry will be used. Is it gonna be used to protect a long hallway? Then give it some added range. Gonna have a heavy sit on your dispenser? Give it some faster/larger health and ammo output.

A more elaborate sign of stickies being destroyed would be nice.

Haven't played much since the patch (damn finals, plus got pretty sick of tf2 recently) so I don't know how the spy change has affected things, but it sounds like it should allow a spy to hammer the enemy team more frequently.

Winfrey

I like the spy buff, you can now de-cloak, stab, and then re-cloak with full charge. Also Spies actually use ammo kits now for cloak recharge.

The engy buildings being upgradeable just makes sense in my opinion. I'd be surprised if they went with CB's cool idea of branching, just for the complexity it adds to balancing.

I really think the demo's stickies should blow up when you shoot them. First it makes sense, you shoot something that blows up, it should blow up. Also this would still make the demo's stickies useful against engineers. They can't just shoot your stickies before you hit the RMB.

All in all I'm pretty happy with the updates. I have started playing spy more, and would like to play the game in general more *sigh*