Call me a stick in the mud but something must be done to make it harder for children to get porn, period. And don't say better parenting. I'm a freaking fantastic parent.
With a little bit of ingenuity and the right amount of hormones/testosterone, any net-nannie type software can be bypassed.
I'd like my children to browse and read online till their hearts content, but the way things are now, I have to be watching over them constantly.
And for anyone that says, well sooner or later they are going to see something so I should just accept it, well I wouldn't accept them seeing their teachers pr!ck in real life nor online.
Grant it, they have woman teachers who seem to be the best at their game. But you get the point.
/me takes the bush years from Keebler and throws them in the trash.
Come up with a way that doesn't violate the first amendment, and I'm sure your lawmakers would love to hear from you.
That is why I pay taxes. To protect my liberties, freedoms, and family's walefare. It's not my responsibility to pay goverment saleries and make the laws for them.
But it wouldn't be hard to imagine an anonymous embedded chip on a DL/identity card that says I'm over 18 and a laws mandating that every keyboard must have a scanner. I can regulate my wallet 24/7.
But porn is a multi-billion dollar industry and their lobbyist pockets are deeeep.
And don't get me wrong, I wouldn't even care if prostitution was legal in all 50 states, as long as it happens behind closed doors.
No matter what you do hardware wise, there will always be a work around, just like with software. The fight is useless without proper education on the part of parents.
I know that's not what you WANTED to hear, but its the truth. You can try the whole ID/Chip thing, but just like any other technology any enterprising teen/child can get around it (just like any adult).
so unless you want to make it so difficult to access that its absurd (which is again, a first amendment thing), you're without recourse.
If intel and AMD can lock there multipliers trust me, porn can be locked out too...lol
Proper education in these matters does not work. It isn't an issue of don't touch the hot flame here. Children, in general, do not have the mental capabilities to use proper judgment in the capacity that an adult can. They simply can not control themselves to that degree and nor should they in some respects.
Doing nothing is not an option. And asking a question are you over 18 and a click yes or no is not enough. You can't buy alcohol or tabaco with a click here or no answer. You can't buy a porn magazine without proper ID either.
We already live in a world where we can't let our kids go out and play without 1 out of ten chance that a boy will get molested and a 3 out of ten chance that a girl will get molested.
So now we have to keep them inside when we can't be outside with them, then we have to lock up the internet from them also?
Here's a statistic
"According to Charles Keating of Citizens for Decency Through Law, research reveals that 77% of child molesters of boys and 87% of child molesters of girls admitted imitating the sexual behavior they had seen in pornography they had watched. Roughly 33% of girls and 14% of boys are molested before the age of 18, according to the U.S. Justice Department. *Nearly 2/3 of all sexual assaults reported involved minors and roughly 1/3 involved children under the age of 12.* In most cases, however, child molestation goes unreported. Estimates are that only 35% of sexual abuse is reported. Kids can be frightened or embarrassed and many times do not say anything." .. So 2/3's of molestation involves minors watching pornography.
Now I know this conversation is a little out of tune with what you find on a tech site. But we can't simply say hooray for porn and leave out the ones who used to come first, our children.
PS I can't believe I sound like such a conservative here.lol Trust me, I'm very liberal. But having children, I do everything I can to give them the most from life and to protect them as well as I can.
how are you going to stop them from getting porn from their friends who stole it from their parents?
where this porn could be store-bought magazines/movies, or downloaded pics/movies. I think that no matter what the government legislates, or how many programs/hardware blockers you install, your kids will be able to get porn.
1) Charles Keating is a douchebag (he's the Keating of the Keating 5). Also, he thinks that mail-order porn is "part of the Communist conspiracy".
-> 77% of child molesters of boys and 87% of child molesters of girls admitted imitating the sexual behavior they had seen in pornography they had watched
so? 100% of adults who have sex are imitating some sort of porn. the only reason i'm not a complete idiot in bed is that i've seen porn.
Also:
"According to Charles Keating of Citizens for Decency Through Law, research reveals that 77% of child molesters of boys and 87% of child molesters of girls admitted imitating the sexual behavior they had seen in pornography they had watched. Roughly 33% of girls and 14% of boys are molested before the age of 18, according to the U.S. Justice Department. *Nearly 2/3 of all sexual assaults reported involved minors and roughly 1/3 involved children under the age of 12.* In most cases, however, child molestation goes unreported. Estimates are that only 35% of sexual abuse is reported. Kids can be frightened or embarrassed and many times do not say anything." .. So 2/3's of molestation involves minors watching pornography.
NOWHERE in this quote is supporting evidence for your conclusion.
2/3rds of molestation is child on child. Out of those 2/3's 80% is reenactment of porn that has been watched.
I can control what is brought into my house and friends to a degree. But I don't like the idea of the of over the shoulder control of the internet.
Also I'm not saying adults shouldn't have access to porn. I am saying that, like in stores, only adults should be able to gain access to it. Of course their will be exceptions where children gain access to some sort of porn. but just because it may happen it doesn't mean we should do nothing.
Also despite where I copied the figures from they are true and are from U.S. Justice Department.
I can control what is brought into my house and friends to a degree. But I don't like the idea of the of over the shoulder control of the internet.
so you think it's your responsibility to stop your children from getting/seeing porn that they got illegally through one source, but not through the internet?
There is no guaranteed way to have one computer that can both access porn for an adult whenever they want to and also have it stop a child from seeing porn. The reason that someone in this thread asked you if you had any suggestions and to contact your representative is that there isn't a way to do it yet.
Lastly, who defines porn? Is seeing a pair of breasts porn? How about when the shirt is wet and you can see the nips? Or if there's a picture of a completely nude woman, does it become porn then? Do you need penetration? If you want to be able to define it, that means that every single image / etc needs to be tagged (correctly) with exactly what it is.
It is my responsibility to provide opportunities and a safe home for my children to thrive in. Part of my civic duty is to ensure I elect officials that help me meet those needs where I cannot. And I’m telling you, as someone who works in IT, I cannot control the internet. But we have become a society where internet access is embedded into our lives. And why shouldn’t it be? It is freaking awesome. (thank you Al Gore… lol just joking).
There are plenty of ways to lock porn out of a home if technology is developed for that purpose. I’ve already gave one Idea with a DL/ID card. Really, once you start thinking what can be done to stop children from seeing porn, answers will stat flooding to you. You could do a facial recognition system embedded with a webcam on and a hardware solution embedded in the monitor. That way, it would be up to the adult who sees what. And yes it can be done cheaply. Hell if you did it that way you could physically block porn images pixel by pixel.
What is and isn’t porn has already been defined. We have a rating system of G, PG, PG13, nc17 and X. And yes, every image or video of elicit material should be tagged and why shouldn’t it? The porn industry is regulated despite how cheesily spontaneous the Bang Bus Bros and Girls Gone Wild looks.
There are plenty of horrible and lazy parents out there. But that doesn’t mean if they had a simple to solution to hinder their children from viewing porn they wouldn’t.
In conclusion, you should ask yourself, is it acceptable for children to view porn . Because really, today, that is where we are at.
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BlackHawkBible music connoisseurThere's no place like 127.0.0.1Icrontian
edited January 2009
All of that is assuming the internet is controlled by the United States. It's not. Doubt some pr0n tgp in Germany is going to care what is mandated in the US. Simply put, it's not going to work.
All of that is assuming the internet is controlled by the United States. It's not. Doubt some pr0n tgp in Germany is going to care what is mandated in the US. Simply put, it's not going to work.
Trust me, if they want to do business in the US, and everyone does, they will care.
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BlackHawkBible music connoisseurThere's no place like 127.0.0.1Icrontian
edited January 2009
Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but that's not how the internet works. Unless the US implements some sort of filter/firewall, which I doubt because most liberals and conservatives can somewhat agree on the first amendment, if the site content is legal in the host country, there's not a thing the US can do about it.
Trust me, I understand how the internet works. I also understand how foreign diplomacy works. I ask you one favor, instead of thinking nothing can be done, think something should be done. That small change in thinking will change something from impossible to it could be possible, and from there who knows.
what if we don't think anything should be done, and that deploying a massive age-verification network would be a waste of money and international political capital?
I'm not interested in making a national ID system (which have been universally panned by civil rights and security groups) or undertaking massive age verification system just so we can PROTECT TEH CHILDRENS from the porn that is already illegal for them to see and obtain.
what if we don't think anything should be done, and that deploying a massive age-verification network would be a waste of money and international political capital?
Is the idea of having a 7 year old child, daughter or niece, viewing a scene of an 18-year-old gagging on a @ock while his buddy pops her brown cherry in the rear that acceptable to you? If so, then nothing. The current Over 18 yes/no system is enough for you.
If that is not acceptable to you, then you should at least come to the conclusion that something should be done.
And it wouldn't be an economy drain. It would be the other way around. It would mean more jobs all around at the cost of the highly lucrative porn industry.
Look man, I'm not trying to stop you or even myself from viewing porn, I just want something to be done to stop children from having easy access to it. It is not impossible and the positive benefits are many.
I think you're missing the point that it would be possible to see that anyhow. You can't make a system that will stop it. At all. Ever. Other countries won't care. At all. Not only that, any law you make in this regard is going to get struck down as a violation of the first amendment.
I'm not interested in making a national ID system (which have been universally panned by civil rights and security groups) or undertaking massive age verification system just so we can PROTECT TEH CHILDRENS from the porn that is already illegal for them to see and obtain.
I never said a national ID. All I said was an anonymous chip that says I'm over 18 in every state issued. Or better, using a face recognition system embedded in displays where an owner could setup who could view porn and who couldn't.
I think you're missing the point that it would be possible to see that anyhow. You can't make a system that will stop it. At all. Ever. Other countries won't care. At all. Not only that, any law you make in this regard is going to get struck down as a violation of the first amendment.
Porn is a business man. If foreign companies want to sell porn in the US then they need to abide by our laws. Just like Google has had to appease India and China.
How often do you come by child pornography or snuff films on the internet? Yes they exist if you know where to look but for most we will probably never see one in our lives. Why, because they are illegal. If you make it harder for foreign porn companies to sell in the US, the majority will get inline real quick. But right now with services like Youporn it is a free for all where porn and children are concerned. Besides, if it is only foreign countries producing and hosting untagged porn, hell I don't have a problem blocking my child's access to out of country IP's. But please, give me that option at least.
The current state is children can easily get porn. Should something be done to make it harder, of course. The what and how is what we should be discussing and not the why or where.
Well actually we should be discussing tech stuff but I do like to use my freedom of speech every now and then.
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BlackHawkBible music connoisseurThere's no place like 127.0.0.1Icrontian
edited January 2009
OK, I'm gonna try and make this simple. Foreign sites aren't selling anything in the US. People in the US are accessing the foreign sites. The US can't stop someone from accessing a site unless they block it. Simple as that.
Google had to appease India and China because those countries will probably block the sites if they don't comply and that's too many customers to lose. The US isn't Turkey, China or Australia to be blocking sites (see Freedom of Speech).
You don't see child porn and snuff films on the internet not because it's illegal in the US, but because it's also illegal in the host country.
Only way you're gonna protect your children from pr0n is by good parenting. At 7yrs old you're supposed to be observing your kids web habits. Unless they're prodigies, it's going to be a bit hard to get past web filters. After that, just teach them where to browse and what to avoid. If they do find pr0n, teach them why you think it's wrong to view it. After that they're probably 12 or 13 and you're screwed anyways. They're friends probably already found their dad's stash of Playboy's.
Black Hawk, I hear ya man. We can at least limit what is hosted here, within our borders. I can block foreign IP's if they don't get inline. Simple as that.
"Children can easily get porn" if you don't teach them, watch out for them, and do your due diligence as a parent. YOU can block these things, you know. Your parenting duties should not be taken over by the government.
"Children can easily get porn" if you don't teach them, watch out for them, and do your due diligence as a parent. YOU can block these things, you know. Your parenting duties should not be taken over by the government.
A democratic government is nothing but an extension of its people. In essence, a democratic body is the government. We the people indirectly make the laws. But somewhere along the lines we have become very pessimistic about our own abilities as a democratic nation.
I'm not asking anyone to do my parenting for me. I'm saying, greater hardware and software tools need to be developed so parents can better exercise control over one of the most influential and greatest achievements to come out of the 20th century, the internet. If you read the thread you will see I've pointed out that net nanny type software is too easily bypassed.
You know, you can already block out-of-country IPs with a copy of smoothwall and a $200 pentium II box. Case closed.
//EDIT: I'm not interested in spending tax revenue to solve a problem the private sector is already working on for parents such as yourself. There is no need to do so. Adding layer after layer of protocol and bureaucracy will not negate the fact that they can steal an ID, use a proxy to bypass your IP blocks, get it from out of country, or get it from a friend who has a cool older brother.
A democratic government is nothing but an extension of its people. In essence, a democratic body is the government. We the people indirectly make the laws. But somewhere along the lines we have become very pessimistic about our own abilities as a democratic nation.
What.
What's pessimistic about preserving freedom of speech and expression?
I'm not asking anyone to do my parenting for me. I'm saying, greater hardware and software tools need to be developed so parents can better exercise control over one of the most influential and greatest achievements to come out of the 20th century, the internet. If you read the thread you will see I've pointed out that net nanny type software is too easily bypassed.
So write some better ones. Put in a firewall. Filter the sites you know exist, and watch his or her history for the other ones you didn't know about. The tools exist, and the government certainly isn't going to suddenly come up with better ones if you're convinced the ones we have now aren't satisfactory.
BuddyJ
Dept. of PropagandaOKC Icrontian
Comments
With a little bit of ingenuity and the right amount of hormones/testosterone, any net-nannie type software can be bypassed.
I'd like my children to browse and read online till their hearts content, but the way things are now, I have to be watching over them constantly.
And for anyone that says, well sooner or later they are going to see something so I should just accept it, well I wouldn't accept them seeing their teachers pr!ck in real life nor online.
Grant it, they have woman teachers who seem to be the best at their game. But you get the point.
/me takes the bush years from Keebler and throws them in the trash.
That is why I pay taxes. To protect my liberties, freedoms, and family's walefare. It's not my responsibility to pay goverment saleries and make the laws for them.
But it wouldn't be hard to imagine an anonymous embedded chip on a DL/identity card that says I'm over 18 and a laws mandating that every keyboard must have a scanner. I can regulate my wallet 24/7.
But porn is a multi-billion dollar industry and their lobbyist pockets are deeeep.
And don't get me wrong, I wouldn't even care if prostitution was legal in all 50 states, as long as it happens behind closed doors.
I know that's not what you WANTED to hear, but its the truth. You can try the whole ID/Chip thing, but just like any other technology any enterprising teen/child can get around it (just like any adult).
so unless you want to make it so difficult to access that its absurd (which is again, a first amendment thing), you're without recourse.
Proper education in these matters does not work. It isn't an issue of don't touch the hot flame here. Children, in general, do not have the mental capabilities to use proper judgment in the capacity that an adult can. They simply can not control themselves to that degree and nor should they in some respects.
Doing nothing is not an option. And asking a question are you over 18 and a click yes or no is not enough. You can't buy alcohol or tabaco with a click here or no answer. You can't buy a porn magazine without proper ID either.
We already live in a world where we can't let our kids go out and play without 1 out of ten chance that a boy will get molested and a 3 out of ten chance that a girl will get molested.
So now we have to keep them inside when we can't be outside with them, then we have to lock up the internet from them also?
Here's a statistic
"According to Charles Keating of Citizens for Decency Through Law, research reveals that 77% of child molesters of boys and 87% of child molesters of girls admitted imitating the sexual behavior they had seen in pornography they had watched. Roughly 33% of girls and 14% of boys are molested before the age of 18, according to the U.S. Justice Department. *Nearly 2/3 of all sexual assaults reported involved minors and roughly 1/3 involved children under the age of 12.* In most cases, however, child molestation goes unreported. Estimates are that only 35% of sexual abuse is reported. Kids can be frightened or embarrassed and many times do not say anything." .. So 2/3's of molestation involves minors watching pornography.
Now I know this conversation is a little out of tune with what you find on a tech site. But we can't simply say hooray for porn and leave out the ones who used to come first, our children.
where this porn could be store-bought magazines/movies, or downloaded pics/movies. I think that no matter what the government legislates, or how many programs/hardware blockers you install, your kids will be able to get porn.
1) Charles Keating is a douchebag (he's the Keating of the Keating 5). Also, he thinks that mail-order porn is "part of the Communist conspiracy".
-> 77% of child molesters of boys and 87% of child molesters of girls admitted imitating the sexual behavior they had seen in pornography they had watched
so? 100% of adults who have sex are imitating some sort of porn. the only reason i'm not a complete idiot in bed is that i've seen porn.
Also:
"According to Charles Keating of Citizens for Decency Through Law, research reveals that 77% of child molesters of boys and 87% of child molesters of girls admitted imitating the sexual behavior they had seen in pornography they had watched. Roughly 33% of girls and 14% of boys are molested before the age of 18, according to the U.S. Justice Department. *Nearly 2/3 of all sexual assaults reported involved minors and roughly 1/3 involved children under the age of 12.* In most cases, however, child molestation goes unreported. Estimates are that only 35% of sexual abuse is reported. Kids can be frightened or embarrassed and many times do not say anything." .. So 2/3's of molestation involves minors watching pornography.
NOWHERE in this quote is supporting evidence for your conclusion.
I can control what is brought into my house and friends to a degree. But I don't like the idea of the of over the shoulder control of the internet.
Also I'm not saying adults shouldn't have access to porn. I am saying that, like in stores, only adults should be able to gain access to it. Of course their will be exceptions where children gain access to some sort of porn. but just because it may happen it doesn't mean we should do nothing.
Also despite where I copied the figures from they are true and are from U.S. Justice Department.
so you think it's your responsibility to stop your children from getting/seeing porn that they got illegally through one source, but not through the internet?
There is no guaranteed way to have one computer that can both access porn for an adult whenever they want to and also have it stop a child from seeing porn. The reason that someone in this thread asked you if you had any suggestions and to contact your representative is that there isn't a way to do it yet.
Lastly, who defines porn? Is seeing a pair of breasts porn? How about when the shirt is wet and you can see the nips? Or if there's a picture of a completely nude woman, does it become porn then? Do you need penetration? If you want to be able to define it, that means that every single image / etc needs to be tagged (correctly) with exactly what it is.
There are plenty of ways to lock porn out of a home if technology is developed for that purpose. I’ve already gave one Idea with a DL/ID card. Really, once you start thinking what can be done to stop children from seeing porn, answers will stat flooding to you. You could do a facial recognition system embedded with a webcam on and a hardware solution embedded in the monitor. That way, it would be up to the adult who sees what. And yes it can be done cheaply. Hell if you did it that way you could physically block porn images pixel by pixel.
What is and isn’t porn has already been defined. We have a rating system of G, PG, PG13, nc17 and X. And yes, every image or video of elicit material should be tagged and why shouldn’t it? The porn industry is regulated despite how cheesily spontaneous the Bang Bus Bros and Girls Gone Wild looks.
There are plenty of horrible and lazy parents out there. But that doesn’t mean if they had a simple to solution to hinder their children from viewing porn they wouldn’t.
In conclusion, you should ask yourself, is it acceptable for children to view porn . Because really, today, that is where we are at.
Trust me, if they want to do business in the US, and everyone does, they will care.
Is the idea of having a 7 year old child, daughter or niece, viewing a scene of an 18-year-old gagging on a @ock while his buddy pops her brown cherry in the rear that acceptable to you? If so, then nothing. The current Over 18 yes/no system is enough for you.
If that is not acceptable to you, then you should at least come to the conclusion that something should be done.
And it wouldn't be an economy drain. It would be the other way around. It would mean more jobs all around at the cost of the highly lucrative porn industry.
Look man, I'm not trying to stop you or even myself from viewing porn, I just want something to be done to stop children from having easy access to it. It is not impossible and the positive benefits are many.
I never said a national ID. All I said was an anonymous chip that says I'm over 18 in every state issued. Or better, using a face recognition system embedded in displays where an owner could setup who could view porn and who couldn't.
Porn is a business man. If foreign companies want to sell porn in the US then they need to abide by our laws. Just like Google has had to appease India and China.
How often do you come by child pornography or snuff films on the internet? Yes they exist if you know where to look but for most we will probably never see one in our lives. Why, because they are illegal. If you make it harder for foreign porn companies to sell in the US, the majority will get inline real quick. But right now with services like Youporn it is a free for all where porn and children are concerned. Besides, if it is only foreign countries producing and hosting untagged porn, hell I don't have a problem blocking my child's access to out of country IP's. But please, give me that option at least.
The current state is children can easily get porn. Should something be done to make it harder, of course. The what and how is what we should be discussing and not the why or where.
Well actually we should be discussing tech stuff but I do like to use my freedom of speech every now and then.
Google had to appease India and China because those countries will probably block the sites if they don't comply and that's too many customers to lose. The US isn't Turkey, China or Australia to be blocking sites (see Freedom of Speech).
You don't see child porn and snuff films on the internet not because it's illegal in the US, but because it's also illegal in the host country.
Only way you're gonna protect your children from pr0n is by good parenting. At 7yrs old you're supposed to be observing your kids web habits. Unless they're prodigies, it's going to be a bit hard to get past web filters. After that, just teach them where to browse and what to avoid. If they do find pr0n, teach them why you think it's wrong to view it. After that they're probably 12 or 13 and you're screwed anyways. They're friends probably already found their dad's stash of Playboy's.
A democratic government is nothing but an extension of its people. In essence, a democratic body is the government. We the people indirectly make the laws. But somewhere along the lines we have become very pessimistic about our own abilities as a democratic nation.
I'm not asking anyone to do my parenting for me. I'm saying, greater hardware and software tools need to be developed so parents can better exercise control over one of the most influential and greatest achievements to come out of the 20th century, the internet. If you read the thread you will see I've pointed out that net nanny type software is too easily bypassed.
//EDIT: I'm not interested in spending tax revenue to solve a problem the private sector is already working on for parents such as yourself. There is no need to do so. Adding layer after layer of protocol and bureaucracy will not negate the fact that they can steal an ID, use a proxy to bypass your IP blocks, get it from out of country, or get it from a friend who has a cool older brother.
LOL and how do I block all the stuff with a high success rate from within the US, like Youporn? Case opened.
What's pessimistic about preserving freedom of speech and expression?
So write some better ones. Put in a firewall. Filter the sites you know exist, and watch his or her history for the other ones you didn't know about. The tools exist, and the government certainly isn't going to suddenly come up with better ones if you're convinced the ones we have now aren't satisfactory.
Again, smoothwall.