Man, Atlas is hard core. I've been playing Etrian Odyssey 2 for the last 8 or 9 months. The game is so ridiculous in scope and the grind, and I love it. Plays a lot like classic FPS RPGs of old as well.
I enjoyed Etrian Odyssey 1 & 2 (2 being way better). But in both games I get to a point about half way through where you hit a huge need to grind. It just becomes to tedious for me to stick with it because by then something new and more interesting has come out.
I've never, personally been a fan of RPGs which require a bunch of grinding. If I'm not strong enough to beat the boss on the experience I got fighting all the monsters on the way to the boss, then I consider the game poorly designed, and I quit. As much as I love the early Final Fantasy game, I never beat any of them because of all the grinding they required.
I think where Grinding works is if there are other things you get from grinding that can be used, like ingredients or rare items etc... Also there is a difference between needing to grind a few levels on occasion or needing to grind 10 levels.
Etrian largely works because you do collect ingredients and other rare drops. Where it starts to get annoying for me is in the mid game where you are cruising along and suddenly hit the new boss and you need to grind many levels to fight him, long past the point where you are still excited about getting the current level(s) ingredients and item drops that are no longer rare. In Etrian I find that usually sets in when your characters start hitting around lvl 25-30 and dungeon level around 12 -15 iir.
But CB I also find it kind of pointless if your characters are always up the the next challenge. If you are always powerful enough to defeat the next monster then the game feels pretty linear and get bored also. There's just no real challenge or sense of accomplishment. You may as well not have an encounter if the game always sets you up to be strong enough to defeat it.
That's odd. Maybe a Canada thing? The latest press release I have from Atari regarding that title still says "May '09" as the release date. :/ Then again, these companies don't always remember to keep the press in the loop when they change things.
I've never, personally been a fan of RPGs which require a bunch of grinding. If I'm not strong enough to beat the boss on the experience I got fighting all the monsters on the way to the boss, then I consider the game poorly designed, and I quit. As much as I love the early Final Fantasy game, I never beat any of them because of all the grinding they required.
This is a common complaint about "early-era" RPGs. A lot of them were developed originally for the Japenese market, in which the players at the time (and still to an extent today), enjoyed (or at least tolerated) grinding in the games, at least moreso than American players. Fortunately, game developers have learned, for the most part, how to integrate side games, side quests, and item gathering into the main storylines in such a way that it feels less like "grinding", like kryyst said above. If you ever want to play an old school game to see the difference between what it used to be like, and what it is today, play the original Final Fantasy (and I mean the original, not the remakes that have the "Easy" option), and you will learn the joy of "grinding" (also imagine having to buy each item one at a time, especially when you want to buy 99 of said item).
You know, this talk about old school RPGs, gives me an idea for a blog post. I'll have to look into it when I get home.
P.S. If anyone does play the original Final Fantasy anytime in the future, and you run into an enemy called Warmech, say hi for me. I'm sure there will be others here who'll understand what I mean by that.
I just tried out Mytran Wars. Looks like an uglier version of Front Mission, with less interesting characters and less detail on the mech parts (just one big mech, no separate head, arms, legs, etc.). I guess it'll scratch my SRPG itch for now. I have yet to jump into the meat of the game which will be upgrading and learning skills/parts. So it'll probalby get better.
I'm currently on level 15 of EO2, the grind is brutal but I - for some reason - love it. It's a great time killer for the down times at work. Can't wait to best this boss FOE and see the next stratum.
Needless grid does suck, and as stated Etrian does work because of it's side quests and item collection. Regardless, I'm the type that in any RPG I grind religiously no matter if it's needed or not. I like to be able to just demolish a boss or high level enemy.
Comments
Dark Spire looks sweet, and punishing.
Etrian largely works because you do collect ingredients and other rare drops. Where it starts to get annoying for me is in the mid game where you are cruising along and suddenly hit the new boss and you need to grind many levels to fight him, long past the point where you are still excited about getting the current level(s) ingredients and item drops that are no longer rare. In Etrian I find that usually sets in when your characters start hitting around lvl 25-30 and dungeon level around 12 -15 iir.
But CB I also find it kind of pointless if your characters are always up the the next challenge. If you are always powerful enough to defeat the next monster then the game feels pretty linear and get bored also. There's just no real challenge or sense of accomplishment. You may as well not have an encounter if the game always sets you up to be strong enough to defeat it.
p.s. awesome game...
This is a common complaint about "early-era" RPGs. A lot of them were developed originally for the Japenese market, in which the players at the time (and still to an extent today), enjoyed (or at least tolerated) grinding in the games, at least moreso than American players. Fortunately, game developers have learned, for the most part, how to integrate side games, side quests, and item gathering into the main storylines in such a way that it feels less like "grinding", like kryyst said above. If you ever want to play an old school game to see the difference between what it used to be like, and what it is today, play the original Final Fantasy (and I mean the original, not the remakes that have the "Easy" option), and you will learn the joy of "grinding" (also imagine having to buy each item one at a time, especially when you want to buy 99 of said item).
You know, this talk about old school RPGs, gives me an idea for a blog post. I'll have to look into it when I get home.
P.S. If anyone does play the original Final Fantasy anytime in the future, and you run into an enemy called Warmech, say hi for me. I'm sure there will be others here who'll understand what I mean by that.
Needless grid does suck, and as stated Etrian does work because of it's side quests and item collection. Regardless, I'm the type that in any RPG I grind religiously no matter if it's needed or not. I like to be able to just demolish a boss or high level enemy.
And yes, EO2 is WAY better than the first.
Came out on the 14th