Mertesn suggested we now have a performance/cm^3 metric.
Well, the Phenom II 920 should pace about even with the Q8400 in most benchmarks, but the chip set? The 790GX will piss on the Nvidia 7050, so make sure you include a couple graphics benchmarks for measure.....
If you look at the combined benchmark I posted earlier in this "discussion" (read: rampant back and forth fanboyism) you'll see that (while neither the Phenom II 920 or Q8400 are on that chart) the Phenom II 910 quite handily beats the Q8200... I'd say chances are pretty good the next step up in each line would show the same stats.
You can continue guessing or move to quantified benchmarks. Their prices are off now, but the performance numbers stand. Consider the average performance graph.
I missed the part where Zuntar said he wanted 3D graphics. Are we changing the criteria and I just didn't get the memo?
We are comparing the value of the platforms. If you wanna just talk about how the chips perform realitive to each other, its simple, they are neck and neck performance wise, while AMD's cost about 20% less in this comparison.
But he did specifically spec a micro ATX board with Integrated Graphics and Sound, so I would assume he would want his chip set not to suck. If anything will do, there are plenty of $50 AMD mobos, so I could spend more on the CPU at that point and beat your Q8400.
Really though, you guys are just trollin me now, you know AMD wins the value segment, I have made my point.
Personally, my next planned CPU upgrade isn't out yet. I'm gonna be all over a Lynnfield-based i5 system when that platform launches. The only significant limitation I saw in the chipset (apart from the loss of one of the three ram channels) was the fact that the i5s will be limited to dual-graphics setups, no tri-fire or tri-SLI. For a midrange performance desktop though, two graphics cards are more than enough.
Unless they release a processor between $200-300 in the 1366 socket, it's not likely the route I'm going. I don't like the idea of shelling out $400 easy after tax on my CPU.
As far as 1156 being a dead-end socket, that may be true, but so is 775... a core i5 will beast anything I can put in an LGA775 socket, at a better price.
That's in USD though. Hidden trick: I'm in Canada... monetary values are usually fired right up in Canadian dollars since I'm too lazy to translate to USD :P
If rumours pan out the Core i7 920 should see a good price drop soon. I believe it's on the phase-out list already. Keep a close watch at NCIX or whatever Canadian Retailer you use!
My point is.....IMHO.... most people don't need a core i7 or even a quad core for that fact, if your just surfing and emailing and facebooking and twittering and playing basic games and burning cd's and bla bla bla. SO....
Every time I have tried to look at getting my wife or mom a lower end upgrade, I ALWAYS find the Intel systems more expencive then the AMD systems when lookeng at similar performance measures.
BTW I realy DO want to buy a lower end system that is seriously nice and cheap. My wife's athlon xp3000 754 aint cutting it any more since we watch TV online at least 1 to 2 times a week. All I can aford to spend is about $300 to $375 including a hard drive and probably a small simple case.
Ok seriously a good integrated graphics option and smallish form factor is just not panning out in my searching unless I go with AMD. I might even be able to go up in price, but i will not go to a full ATX board and a descret video card as the size needs to be smaller.
Basicly, as it was stated, don't want nor should i settle for a sucky chipset. I honestly want to go intel, as i agree their cpus are better, nevertheless the cpu is but one part of the system.
Ok seriously a good integrated graphics option and smallish form factor is just not panning out in my searching unless I go with AMD. I might even be able to go up in price, but i will not go to a full ATX board and a descret video card as the size needs to be smaller.
Are you sure full ATX is not an option? AMD has some boards based on the 770 that are decent for about $75, pair it with the 7850 dual core for $60 and an inexpensive but realtively decent 4650 graphics card for about $45, 2GB of DDR2 for $25, you only spend a hair over $200 and you get a system that can easily handle HD video, has a current chip set, is equipped to handle the high end CPU's if you plan to upgrade at some point.
Ok seriously a good integrated graphics option and smallish form factor is just not panning out in my searching unless I go with AMD. I might even be able to go up in price, but i will not go to a full ATX board and a descret video card as the size needs to be smaller.
help me see the light, please!
Well damn, if you budge on price go with a micro atx p45 motherboard for 110, a e7500 for 113, and a low profile 9600gt for 110. For 335 your still in reason of your budget, its small, and will stop the hell out of any AMD onboard graphics system.
Here's an mITX system that'll do everything you've mentioned and falls under the $375 budget with case and hard drive.
ZOTAC IONITX-A-U Atom N330 1.6GHz Dual-Core 441 NVIDIA ION mITX board w/ PSU - $210
ARK PI-01 black mITX case w/ 300w PSU - $35
4GB OCZ SLI-Ready DDR2-800 - $46 - $10 rebate
1TB Hitachi 0A38016 7200rpm 16MB cache SATA 3.0 HDD - $75
That's $366. The motherboard will run quietly and is capable to 1080p playback. It has 802.11n WiFi and HDMI to hook to your network and TV. Windows 7 should run without any problems on it.
I don't understand your reasoning. Their testing shows it does everything you're asking for it to do, with less power consumption and a smaller physical footprint than anything else. What more do you want?
The Atom comes short when you're playing modern 3D games. Are you playing games?
The Atom comes short when you're doing video encoding, albeit it's not as bad thanks to the ION/CUDA stuff now. Are you encoding movies?
The Atom comes short when you're Folding. Is this a Folding box?
Don't get me wrong, I'll admit that it's NOT a perfect system and that it doesn't have much horsepower under the hood. But it's a very well optimized platform for doing everything it sounds like you're trying to do.
Comments
Thank you, I don't want that
You're missing the point.
Phenom II 920 quad for 149.99
AMD 790GX micro ATX mobo $85
$65 left should cover the 4 gigs of DDR.
I think that outperforms the Intel Itx suggestion by a handy margin.
My svelte option is the better choice. It's cooler, smaller, and cheaper (despite coming with a PSU).
Intel Core 2 Quad Q8400 ($174): http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115057
4GB OCZ DDR2-800 ($45): http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820227195
TOTAL: $270
Gosh, cheaper, smaller and faster than Cliff's AMD rig. Amazing.
Well, the Phenom II 920 should pace about even with the Q8400 in most benchmarks, but the chip set? The 790GX will piss on the Nvidia 7050, so make sure you include a couple graphics benchmarks for measure.....
In fact, here's the side-by-side: http://www.tomshardware.com/charts/2009-desktop-cpu-charts/compare,1407.html?prod[2609]=on&prod[2631]=on
We are comparing the value of the platforms. If you wanna just talk about how the chips perform realitive to each other, its simple, they are neck and neck performance wise, while AMD's cost about 20% less in this comparison.
But he did specifically spec a micro ATX board with Integrated Graphics and Sound, so I would assume he would want his chip set not to suck. If anything will do, there are plenty of $50 AMD mobos, so I could spend more on the CPU at that point and beat your Q8400.
Really though, you guys are just trollin me now, you know AMD wins the value segment, I have made my point.
Game, Set, Match. - AMD
As far as 1156 being a dead-end socket, that may be true, but so is 775... a core i5 will beast anything I can put in an LGA775 socket, at a better price.
A Core i7 920 was recently going for $200, retails for around $280. There's your processor - and it has massive overclocking headroom.
In fact, here it is again.
So far I haven't seen them going for any less than $320 CDN before tax.
My point is.....IMHO.... most people don't need a core i7 or even a quad core for that fact, if your just surfing and emailing and facebooking and twittering and playing basic games and burning cd's and bla bla bla. SO....
Every time I have tried to look at getting my wife or mom a lower end upgrade, I ALWAYS find the Intel systems more expencive then the AMD systems when lookeng at similar performance measures.
BTW I realy DO want to buy a lower end system that is seriously nice and cheap. My wife's athlon xp3000 754 aint cutting it any more since we watch TV online at least 1 to 2 times a week. All I can aford to spend is about $300 to $375 including a hard drive and probably a small simple case.
Basicly, as it was stated, don't want nor should i settle for a sucky chipset. I honestly want to go intel, as i agree their cpus are better, nevertheless the cpu is but one part of the system.
help me see the light, please!
Well damn, if you budge on price go with a micro atx p45 motherboard for 110, a e7500 for 113, and a low profile 9600gt for 110. For 335 your still in reason of your budget, its small, and will stop the hell out of any AMD onboard graphics system.
ZOTAC IONITX-A-U Atom N330 1.6GHz Dual-Core 441 NVIDIA ION mITX board w/ PSU - $210
ARK PI-01 black mITX case w/ 300w PSU - $35
4GB OCZ SLI-Ready DDR2-800 - $46 - $10 rebate
1TB Hitachi 0A38016 7200rpm 16MB cache SATA 3.0 HDD - $75
That's $366. The motherboard will run quietly and is capable to 1080p playback. It has 802.11n WiFi and HDMI to hook to your network and TV. Windows 7 should run without any problems on it.
The Atom comes short when you're playing modern 3D games. Are you playing games?
The Atom comes short when you're doing video encoding, albeit it's not as bad thanks to the ION/CUDA stuff now. Are you encoding movies?
The Atom comes short when you're Folding. Is this a Folding box?
Don't get me wrong, I'll admit that it's NOT a perfect system and that it doesn't have much horsepower under the hood. But it's a very well optimized platform for doing everything it sounds like you're trying to do.